Thanks Johan for your input.
In fact Tienie words were as follows:
Carr.birds wrote:Stefan
I understand your opinion and agree with it. The only SL mutation it was tested is cinnamon. (SL edged/cinnamon & green). The problem you are sitting with is that it is very difficult to distinguish between cinnamon edged and edged females. I have noticed that in this combination the ruby cinnamon eye darkens and doesn’t assist you in identifying the cinnamon edged females.
Tienie
From his words I understand that he can not make the difference between SL Edged and "SL Edged-Cinnamon" females, because both are showing the same phenotype. Far more, he says that the typical ruby cinnamon eye is not present, but what is present is the dark eye (like for SL Edged females), which, thus, does not allow to make differences between both possibilities. So, from his words (equal phenotype and equal dark eye) I would assume that there are only two phenotypes for females: either Cinnamon or SL-Edged. This sticks to the hypothesis of both mutations being different alleles of the same mutation. Farmore: the allelic hypothesis would explain the unexpected dark eye in the "combo".
1.0 Cinnamon x 0.1 SL-Edged would produce (in the allelic hypothesis) 100% SL-EdgedCinnamon males and 100% Cinnamon females. In the two different mutations hypothesis it would yield 100% SF SL-Edged/Cinnamon males and 100% Cinnamon females. So we must analyse the differences in males phenotype:
should SF SL-Edged/Cinnamon males look different that SL-EdgedCinnamon males?
It seems that those males (either SF SL-Edged/Cin or SL-EdgedCin) are different that SF SL-Edged males. I have never seens those birds, but I deduce it from Madas' words:
madas wrote:Recio wrote:
In the past budgi breeders said that Cinnamon should be avoided in their breeding programs because even split birds were one step ligther than pure birds.
And this is my assumption too. So i am saying that mostly 95% of the so called SL Edged(df)-Cinnamons or SL Edged(sf)-Cinnamons are in real
only split for cinnamon and the hetereozyguos cinnamon gen is already expressed in the phenotype because of the linkage to SL Edged at the sex chromosome. The true SL Edged(df)-Cinnamon could be the birds of Antonio (Fusi) or the bird in question of Coastal-Birds.
madas
Is it easier to accept that the presence of Cinnamon as split could change the phenotype of SL-Edged birds or accept that the different phenotype is due to a SL-EdgedCinnamon allelic combination? I am not saying that the first idea is wrong. We have long time speculated about it, but only on a theoretical basis (isn't it Johan?). Anyway the odds seem higher for the hypothesis of different alleles of the same locus (just looking et this specific feature).
If the allelic hypothesis was true we could get the following SL-Edged combinations for males:
SL-EdgedWild ... SF SL-Edged
SL-EdgedSL-Edged ... DF SL-Edged
SL-EdgedCinnamon
Those are 3 different phenotypes.
If the allelic hypothesis was not true, with our classic genetics, we could get the following SL-Edged combinations for males:
1. SL-EdgedWild ... SF SL-Edged
2. SL-EdgedSL-Edged ... DF SL-Edged
3. SL-EdgedWild + Wild-Cinnamon ... that is SF SL-Edged / Cinnamon
4. SL-EdgedWild + Cinnamon-Cinnamon ... that is SF SL-Edged Cinnamon
5. SL-EdgedSL-Edged + WildCinnamon ... DF SL-Edged / Cinnamon
6. SL-EdgedSL-Edged + CinnamonCinnamon ... DF SL-Edged Cinnamon
With our classic genetics, numbers 1 and 3 should show the same phenotype, similar for numbers 2 and 5. So with these classic genetics we can get 4 different possible phenotypes for males.
My question: how many different phenotypes showing SL-Edged have been described for males when combining with Cinnamon?
Regards
Recio