Houston-We have lift off!

[Doodlebug]

Hi guys, how is everyone? Been super busy with kids and my fid during these holidays but just wanted to share my utter JOY

Doodlebug is coming out of his cage at last! He is still quite random when he decides he wants to be targeted and to where, but I had him eating on his doors that fold into the cage for a platform and he just leant out, climbed on the outside of his cage and...flew straight into most of the walls LOL.

I made my partner sit very still and we sat while he got his little panic out of his system. He waddled about on the floor for a bit, flew to the table whereupon his little flat feet which are used to being curled around a perch slid outwards from beneath him and slowly did the splits...SOOO funny (Well, to us fnar fnar!) He then had a little fly about giving a tiny cry when he brushed the top of my partners head, and when he was swinging from the curtains I tried getting him to step up on a perch which he did after being a bit confused with the target stick and biting it several times. I slowly took him to our homemade stand and he got on, I gave him some time on that before transferring him to perches of different height to get him used to it. He has come out several times since and gets more comfortable each time but never seems to want to go back in his cage! He bit me trying to stay out but I was firm with him and said 'Cage Time Doodlebug', I think he now enjoys the wider open space outside but am wondering if this may become a problem? Especially as I still haven't got him used to being on my hand or particularly spot on with target training.

Do you think I should now start using negative reinforcement and try touching him and click & treat when he shows signs of being calm? Trouble is, he won't let me take him to a smaller room such as a bathroom where he can't fly away much, so will I be just chasing him around with the perch and making him fear me? If I let him be, is there any chance he would come to me of his own accord?

I guess every bird is different so it may be an unanswerable question. But at least now I can get him re-housed in his Playboy mansion. I'm stupidly excited as I have so many cool perches and a suspension bridge and toys for him and can't wait to see him enjoying it all, fingers crossed it doesn't stress him out too much.

Yours happily, Loo

[Skyes_crew]

Hey sounds like doodle is doing great! Learning to use those wings of his

I wouldn't start heading towards negative reinforcement on a never hand tamed bird. If not done absolutely correct you could cause problems that will be very hard to correct. The theory of negative reinforcement is to get the bird to want to be treated for accepting an uncomfortable situation. It's like training a monkey to get shocked each time he gets food. He's hungry so he will continue to get shocked over and over to get to the food. It's a mean concept on a bird that understands nothing of human behavior yet. Please stick to positive reinforcement. You will ultimately have a much calmer bird that will respect you and not fear you.

They do resist going back in the cage after a taste of freedom. You at this point have to make it a special time for him when he does return. Offer him a treat that he only gets upon returning to the cage. Once he begins to feel more comfortable around the home and on his perches, it's time to begin flight recall training. This will aid in returning him to his cage also eventually. There are tons of videos on YouTube about flight recall, but if you need specific help, there are a lot of people here to help with that

Again congrats on doodlebugs progress. I love hearing a happy outcome

[Doodlebug]

Hey there, thanks for your reply and tips yeah now you explain it, I understand how silly that idea was! I think I'll continue to use the step up perch and hold it closer to him bit by bit. He has actually come closer to me on it but only when he doesn't want to get off it, and several times I think he's wanted to climb onto my hand and go up my arm. When he does eventually do this, I am wary of him being on my shoulder as I have read a lot here about bites to the face etc. biggles used to nibble my ears and hair and occasionally give the odd nip but as he was so tame from a baldy hatchling I never used to worry. This is a whole new ball game! Not too keen on finding out how birds can remove contact lenses plus the cornea in one easy step!!

Another random question-I read somewhere that only hens hiss, is this true? I never heard Biggles make that noise but Dudes did it this morning. It all adds to the whole 'is it or isn't it a boy' thing! I love my baby so much I'm not bothered one way or the other but I obviously don't want to go round saying good boy and giving a gender complex!

How are you and yours?

[InTheAir]

I've got a suggestion, which might or might not be useful, it works for us....
We have pretty much always got Nila to step up to come out of the cage, this way he gets an extra positive association with stepping up.

[Skyes_crew]

I didn't think of that Claire...good suggestion! I too step up my birds from their cages to come out.

On the shoulder thing, once he starts to progress to where he's climbing up your arm you can block him from your shoulder. Use your other arm to form an X with the arm doodle is on and tell him no shoulder and then treat. I had to do this with my Alex. That beak hurts on an ear lol.

[Doodlebug]

Hi guys-yes I've made sure he steps up onto the perch when coming out, he resisted this morning but the promise of sharing my toast proved too much in the end! I want to train him to be expected to step up to be able to come out and also to go back in, I wouldn't want to just open his door and let him come out and go in as he pleases-or he'll start thinking he's the boss around here and that kind of behaviour won't be encouraged!

He seems comfortable on his playstand but as yet he hasn't explored other parts of the room. When he gets a fright he doesn't seem to realise he can fly back to his stand or even to the top of his cage, he'll just attach himself to the curtains (which are shut as I know the light and promise of freedom makes them fly into the windows)

I expect his curiosity will get the better of him though and he'll start being braver and have a nose-around soon. I would place toys etc round the room but he just doesn't seem interested in them!

Any ideas on the hissing thing? He's only done it twice, when I put my face near the cage and was maybe talking too loudly or highly pitched for his liking. I'd also like to encourage more twittering, I make sure I reply whenever he does this but not to the screams, is there anything else I could do to bring more out

[Doodlebug]

Apologies-not wishing to flood my own thread but another question I'd like opinions on if I may?

I have noticed from when I got him that when doodlebug is wary or frightened, his very front/edge feather on his wings stick out forwards. But as I sit looking at him in his play stand he looks very comfortable, fluffed up with one leg tucked up with his eyes shut but those feathers are also sticking out? I'm wondering if its helping with balance? Or maybe it comforts him as there are sounds of traffic going by... Just don't like to think he is in any way nervous

[InTheAir]

I don't know about the hissing thing.

Our birdy was heaps tamer than yours when we got him, but he still wasn't completely sure of us and liked to watch us from a high place. We have big wooden curtain rails in our house, so he would sit there and keep an eye on us.
Does Doodlebug have a perch that's nice and high he can hang out on? Height dominance is fiction, it's just birdy instinct to be high for safety. When they feel safe they will hang around at our level. Our bird will no longer sleep on our curtain rail at night, he insists on having a perch at the same height as the bed, if we don't comply he crashes down in the dark to join us in bed until we get the perch that suits.
Also, it does appear there is no hierarchy in wild parrots. Attempting to be the boss is probably not the way to build a good relationship with a parrot.
We step Nila out of his cage for toileting reasons, he always goes before or after so if he doesn't go before he is placed on his perch near the cage to relieve himself, then he can do what he wants. The added bonus to this is he gets another good reason to step up.
To keep step up positive, remember to step him up and move him somewhere fun outside the cage as often as you can. If stepping up from outside the cage always results in going back in the cage it will soon lose it's appeal.

I hope that's helpful, I've got to go entertain the bird now!

[Doodlebug]

Hi Yes his play stand is tall, over head height with various other sized and width perches at different height under. He has toys and platforms where I can put treats so he has everything he could want there-apart from me hehe!

I bet your bird getting in bed with you can be cute and also a nuisance at the same time?!

I'd love to know how you trained for toiletting-I have a mental image of having to watch like a hawk at all times for the 'squat wiggle' that is the sign they're about to go

[sanjays mummi]

I put newspaper down when Sanjay is due out of his cage, as for standing on one leg that's the sign of a healthy bird. Birds bite because they don't want to be touched, and if you take his food out when he is out, then just before you want him to go back in, put fresh food and water in his cage, he will be back inside before you can say "jack Robinson", never underestimate Doodles love for his tummy.

[InTheAir]

Hi Yes his play stand is tall, over head height with various other sized and width perches at different height under. He has toys and platforms where I can put treats so he has everything he could want there-apart from me hehe!

I bet your bird getting in bed with you can be cute and also a nuisance at the same time?!

I'd love to know how you trained for toiletting-I have a mental image of having to watch like a hawk at all times for the 'squat wiggle' that is the sign they're about to go

What a great play stand! Lucky lil doodlebug. I'm sure he will just keep getting braver, especially when he realises you may have yummy treats for him.

I'm afraid we overlooked the cuteness of being dive bombed at night. The little monster sleeps on the curtain rails until he hears us go to bed, then he splats into us.. We were too busy worrying he may hurt himself. Now we know to put him to bed on a portable perch whenever he sleeps in our room.

Nila has always had an aversion to going to the toilet on people. Best thing ever. He was just like that when we got him, he has had a few accidents, but more often than not he will fly to a perch to do his thing then come straight back. He is getting a little less reliable, last night he went potty on the table
I don't know if other birds are the same, but Nila has quite clear body language and a certain expression that he does prior to going, which gives us time to get him to a garden when he is in his harness. Lol

It's so nice to hear about doodlebug's progress, I'm glad he found such an understanding home. Congrats.

[Doodlebug]

Hi sanjaysmummi, thanks for replying I just wondered if those particular feathers meant anything or if any other IRNs did it?

Thanks Claire, I think I'm the lucky one having my dream come true of having another little IRN, and he's everything I wished for. I think it makes it even more special when you get them young and go through the taming process together, the bond gets closer every day Although my partner is starting to think hes coming second to a blinkin bird!!

[Doodlebug]

When I have Doodlebug out and on his stand, he has been having a constant supply of treats.

Now I'm thinking maybe this is overkill and it won't help my cause when trying to get him back in his cage as there's nothing of interest to him in there. So is it a good idea to treat him once when he comes out and then again when he goes back in? It will increase the likelihood of him going back in easier, also increase his desire to come to me or to explore and of course DE-crease all the pooping lol!

I think I've been trying to show him how pleased I am with him being out of his cage but I'm probably going to develop his dependence on treats for no reason...

[Skyes_crew]

You may want to scale back the treats lol once I got my bird eager to come out of his cage I actually stopped the treats for coming out. I would treat once he got to his perch or play gym. That way the treat is associated with something other than the cage. If you want to teach some independence at this stage, move him around from perch to perch at various times and treat each perch with a stay command. Try, as hard it probably is, to let him have his own personal space to be a bird sometimes. Just walk off, let him play for awhile, with half an eye on him, and then come back and treat for the independent behavior. To get him back in the cage, pick a treat that he will go crazy over and only use it for return to cage. You can use a sound to accompany the home command and then treat when he goes home. Over time the sound will be his cue for him to return home for that treat. Maybe use a clicker or a bell. Or the sound of his treat dropping in a stainless steel bowl in his cage.

[InTheAir]

Loo,
My boyfriend used to complain that I like the bird more than him, luckily he's worked out where he stands now

I agree that scaling back the treats is a good idea.
Coming out of the cage soon turns into a reward for itself.

[Skyes_crew]

I had to explain to my husband that I don't like them more....I like them better

[Doodlebug]

Haha! Aww no, all these 'Fidowers' all across the world that have lost their women to a bird! It's very hard to explain to him why I am so happy to be seeing poop all around the place just like years ago.

The treats have been scaled down I tried him on puffed rice this morning but he still prefers my toast the little bugger. Last night was great, he was out on the curtains and I thought I'd leave him there to see if he would work out he can fly to the stand or anywhere he wanted to-I could've kicked myself because I was turned away talking to my partner and he flew right up to me but didn't hear him coming and I jumped out of my skin and it scared him off! My partner said he was going to land on me but am not so sure, but if he was I went and ruined it

I often leave the room (but close the door) just to get on with stuff, and also to let him relax and be curious. I've come into the room again later on and he's on a different perch in his stand and playing with the toys hanging off it. So nice to finally see

I've got a whistle to try to call him over which when the time comes I'll use for recall, and I say 'cage time' when I put him back. I think it's getting easier, it's so much better for all concerned when they don't struggle to stay out!

[Doodlebug]

I just went to put him away and made sure I had a special treat (apple which he adores), now I knew he still wouldn't want to go back regardless but he sidestepped the whole way up the step up perch to bite me lol! I deflected any further bites with the apple but any advice on how to make it so he wants to go back? I tried holding and putting the apple inside the cage as a lure but in the end I had to sort of tip him off the perch and close the door in one swift manoeuvre. Ideally I'd like him to go in without protest but we all are reluctant to do things we don't want to do so I'm holding no grudge...

[InTheAir]

Little mr trouble already!
My strategy might be a longterm thing, rather than an instant fix...
I put stuff in Nilas favourite foraging toys and make it very obvious I'm doing it, put them in the cage and, presto! Bird wants to go in cage. ... He goes in when he is told to anyway, the foraging toys just make him want to stay there until he solves them.

Btw what is fid? I've been meaning to find out for ages. .

[Doodlebug]

A Fid is a feathered kid-so I put my own take on the widower thing lol

I do keep trying the foraging thing, I have munch balls that I put food in right in front of him, I put food scrunched up in newspaper, under shredded paper and inside empty loo roll tubes, same with his toys-he just doesn't seem bothered. I show him where it is and what to and everything. Is it his age? He's 15 weeks.

Before I went to work I hung a little millet seed bell up for him. He destroyed it before I got back! He doesn't eat it (or the millet in his seed mix) he just picks it all off and it sits on the floor of his cage! Note to self-dont bother with those any more!

[InTheAir]

Ahhh. Thanks for enlightening me. I've been meaning to ask about that fid thing for ages. . How does everyone else know this stuff? I thought it must be an acronym for flying invasive demon or something like that. ...

[MissK]

Hey, I want to know what Holidays Loo is having at this time of year. It was my Birthday on Wednesday, but I didn't think the festivities had reached wherever Loo is!

-MissK

[Skyes_crew]

lol...it's the summer holiday aka MissK's super summer birthday celebration

[MissK]

Rock On! --I like to start a month early and go a month late, so technically, Holiday in full swing here.

-MissK

[Skyes_crew]

It's my little ones third b-day today...ill blow out a candle for you

[Redzone]

Loo,
My boyfriend used to complain that I like the bird more than him, luckily he's worked out where he stands now

I agree that scaling back the treats is a good idea.
Coming out of the cage soon turns into a reward for itself.

And this said bird was SUPPOSEDLY my birthday present! Indian giver! LOL

ps Feathered Invasive Demon is more accurate

[Skyes_crew]

Loo,
My boyfriend used to complain that I like the bird more than him, luckily he's worked out where he stands now

I agree that scaling back the treats is a good idea.
Coming out of the cage soon turns into a reward for itself.

And this said bird was SUPPOSEDLY my birthday present! Indian giver! LOL

ps Feathered Invasive Demon is more accurate

I guess you'll have to get another fid now...what a shame

[MissK]

How about a BUDGIE?!



-MissK

[InTheAir]

How about a BUDGIE?!



-MissK

I'm afraid that word gives me horrible mental images of Tony Abbott due to all the election coverage at the moment!
I've got an acronym for that one too, bitsy understated demon gibbering insane extremes
Nope, minus the first two words that's still mr rabbit... sorry. The word budgie has been permanently damaged to me. Can we please rename the species? Then I'll get one for redzones birthday and claim last year's present.

[MissK]

How about a Budgeriger? Betcherrygah? Warbling Grass Parakeet? Tweety Bird?

-MissK

[Skyes_crew]

I'm partial to tweety bird

[Doodlebug]

Hi ladies, yes it's the schools summer holidays over here in the uk, they run for six weeks from the end of July to the beginning of September.

How are you and your fids?

I'm at the stage where I'm not sure of the next step with doodlebug, he comes out no problem, getting him back is more of a problem but I manage-but how to now work with him outside the cage? He more or less does his own thing playing on his stand and having the odd flutter around the room. How can I interact with him more bearing in mind he still goes for me! Even when I hold food he'll bite my finger!!

[InTheAir]

Budgerigar, or what about budgeriga-ga? Cos missk goes ga-ga for them!

Loo,
I feel like I am studying to become a parrot shrink just so I can answer my own questions! Lol though my questions tend to be along the lines of 'is he actually noticing that he is making marks on the paper with the paint brush?'... 'Will be ever memorise mary had a little lamb on the xylophone?'

I read this the other day http://learningparrots.com/blog/trainin ... l-parrots/ and loved it.

[Doodlebug]

Hi Claire, thanks for posting that link, anything that helps us get into the working minds of our feathered friends is useful! Sometimes they are very hard to work out, and other times you know exactly what they are thinking! I always foils it fascinating that birds with limited movement in the way if facial expressions still manage to convey what they mean with a cock of the head or a bop or with their eyes. I'm sure I understand far more about birds body language than that of blokes lol!

Today I had doodlebug out most of the day. I only have him one piece of toast when he came out and shut his doors so he couldn't get in if he was hungry. I trained him several times throughout the day, targetting him to different places on his stand and in the room. I had hold if one of his perches and lured him closer to my hand with treats. He's still not comfortable with coming close enough to stand on me but he's getting there! Within the week I can feel it

[MissK]

Isn't that great, you can see it coming!
Makes me wonder, can they see it coming, too?

-MissK

[Skyes_crew]

I almost think you can see it coming. It's like you can see their little minds hard at work contemplating their next move.

[Doodlebug]

MissK, Now I'm wondering-if they could see it coming, would they keep trying? Maybe the treats override the fear in the end once they get to know us better and that they're not in any immediate danger?

Skyes_crew-totally! Their little heads go from side to side, eyeing up this and that, I love birdies I've never understood these people that are scared witless of them. Obviously seen to much Hitchcock...

[MissK]

I'm thinking more of what happens (if anything) in their mind as they are making progress on the new skill, trying to get it.

I think, for the best example, of when Rocky was learning to fly on purpose. I set him him about 3 feet from me, and sat, myself, eating pecans next to a table with a stable towel on it (for landing traction).

Rocky climbed as close as he could on the outside of the cage and from there he went through what looked to be a lot of emotional effort. I could just about hear him repeating "What do I do with this foot? Where does my butt go? I think I can! I think I can!"

I, on the other hand, was thinking "DO it! You can do it! You're there! Come on, Buddy, you can SO do this!" Guess it was emotional for me, too.

But I wonder what he was *really* thinking. He wasn't showing any fear, was clearly intent on doing this thing. Kinda like a bowler getting ready.

-MissK

[Doodlebug]

I could just about hear him repeating "What do I do with this foot? Where does my butt go? I think I can! I think I can!"

Haha this cracked me up!

Well I have great news Today he nearly landed on me! I have been making sure he is hungry before training such as before breakfast etc, and today I came in eating an apple. He went crazy and got REALLY interested, and I knew he was about to take off. He flew up to me and hovered right in front of me so I put the arm holding the apple up and he came sooo close... and flew off. I praised him and gave him some apple Can't wait to get training tomorrow

[Skyes_crew]

I can't help but smile at all of the progress you both have made since your first post in the forum. It's awesome!!

[MissK]

So, you think now if I could figure out where my butt goes, I could fly?

-MissK

[Skyes_crew]

Maybe if you're talking about whether to put your butt in coach or first class

[Doodlebug]

I just have this mental image of him working out where to put his butt and trying out various positions! Maybe that's what Icarus should have been working on instead of using dud wings.

Thanks ladies, I'm so pleased with how its going Today I have been targeting him onto a handheld perch and he's been coming to it. Got bit earlier though when I obviously pushed him too far seeing if he would be lured onto my hand. Err no!

Any tips for me?

...Going to attempt to upload a photo, wish me luck!

[Doodlebug]

Riiight so that went well...NOT! Tried to upload using ellieelectrons advice on her thread but now wondering what I did wrong. Unless you guys can see something I can't?

[MissK]

Yeah, that was it. He was upside down on the side of the cage, bending his head back so he could see forwards, shifting around, it was so funny, so awkward.... silly birdie.

Re-read Ellie's instructions and try again. I used photobucket, and I did have to make one or two leaps of faith to customize the instruction, but it worked for me - so long ago I no longer recall how. But her instructions gave me what I needed.

-MissK

[Doodlebug]

How I wish you had a video of that

Right, I'm going to try again, think I know what the problem was

[Doodlebug]

Yeehah!!

Let me introduce Doodlebug, my main 'man!'

[Skyes_crew]

Well hello there doodle...heard so much about you already. And now I'm talking to a picture. I'm having a rough morning. Please forgive my squishy brain today

[Doodlebug]

Oh dear, hope nothing too bad has happened?

Thanks for admiring 'the Dude', I'm sure even though he is besieged by absolute adoration and constant flattery, he still has room for more!

[Skyes_crew]

Nothing bad lol. Just a head cold