How have you dealt with possible self harming behaviour?

[sahhbear]

Hi all!
I've had my guy at the vet this evening... Turns out he may not be a he and possibly a she (Rani croons and throws his/her head back and juts his/her wings out at me). I am so used to calling Rani a he the poor bugger is BOUND to be confused!

Anyway long story short the vet trip was due to the fact that I found a sore on Rani's elbow. I had been bathing it and keeping an eye on it but alas the bugger picked and picked and made it worse and I was worried.

My vet (FANTASTIC guy at Brisbane bird specialists) believes that it may be self harming behaviours out of boredom.

I must admit I'm rather slack on my foraging techniques so that is changing immediately but are there any other tricks from people who may have experienced this?

Rani has not yet reached maturity and is at best guess only about 10 months old, so both myself and the vet want to get this under control (as we did with other behaviours) before they worsen at sexual maturity.

Any helpful hints will be greatly appreciate from a stressed out mum!

[MissK]

Foraging is always one of the best things to give. My bird also spends a good bit of time manipulating his foot toys. He has a variety of sizes and textures, plastic beads, wood blocks, seashells, wood sticks and bundles of grasses, balls, and some hanging paper and grass things to destroy. He likes a puzzle where he has to pull things out of a box with small holes - not foods, but he still does it. He loves a container to put his foot toys in and out of. He likes his clean jute cord for destroying and then waving like a prize. He has a variety of climbing options, and a toy placed so he must climb to get it. He even has a stainless steel bolt with nuts to remove.

His food moves around the cage every few days, and that could be considered a sort of foraging. He has to get his own nuts from the shell unless we are training. He can rip open paper parcels to get food. He has a hanging skewer to get food from. He has beads in his seed bowl he must move out of the way. His fresh food hangs or wedges in places where he must go and get it, rip off what he wants.

Hope you got a few ideas here.

-MissK

[sahhbear]

Oooh... a few great ideas there!! THANK YOU! My guy (I still call him guy) loves foot toys too so I will put some more in there. I live in Australia so I plan on going to look for some gum nuts or something to use as a natural foot toy. He has some store bought ones which he spends HOURS destroying. I've put pegs in there as he loves throwing those around. Even the tops of a beer bottle.

I've been doing a lot more research on foraging and keeping him engaged as he's got a short attention span. He likes to move from one thing to another VERY quickly, which makes it somewhat difficult to keep him entertained. I work long hours two days a week and study. But the days I'm home I sit in the room with him and have him out when I can. I've made it a practice, after consulting with my vet initially, that he knows that he's not always allowed out of his home when I'm home as this was causing screaming and temper tantrums which have now ceased.

It's a constant learning curve- which I'm happy to embark on because I love the little bugger and want what's best for him!!

So thanks for these great ideas, MissK- they're going in the TODO basket!!

xx

[ellieelectrons]

Hi sahbear

Just a few links for you if you haven't already seen them:
http://www.indianringneck.com/forum/vie ... 01&p=69400
http://www.indianringneck.com/forum/vie ... =4&t=13466
http://www.parrotenrichment.com/ - this site has some free ebooks to download

Toys are very individual and different birds like different toys. A book that I have, "Parrot-toys & Play Areas" by D'Arezzo & Shannon-Nunn lists 11 different parrot-toy categories for you to try with your bird. They suggest that at any one time your bird should have toys from at least 4 categories. Someone else has written the 11 different parrot-toy categories here: http://lafebercares.com/what-to-chew-today/

Is your vet Brisbane Bird Vet in Chermside or a different one? To my knowledge, there are only two avian vets in Brisbane? My first link is my notes after talking to the vet.

Best wishes.

Ellie.

[sahhbear]

Thanks so much Ellie! I'm out and about at the minute and replying off my phone but I will check out the links when I get home. I read through the forum a lot and have looked through a lot of posts where you and MissK have posted and I appreciate your advice!

Yes. I see Adrian at the bird vet at Chermside. He is great and so much help! I took rani for an initial consultation when I could see that something wasn't quite right. I've owned many birds before an IRN included and I wanted to make sure I was doing everything I could from the get go as I know each bird is different. I look forward to checking out your links and that book... Already I've noticed a difference in him with just the few changes I made this morning. It makes me feel bad I haven't been doing this all along.

I'm home sick from work at the moment so I have a little more time to devote and it couldn't have come at a better time!!!

[sahhbear]

Eeeeeek!!!!! I'm pulling my hair out! He's been back to the vet cause he was trying to get the bandage off (naturally) Vet decided it was best to put him on a medication to keep him calm and not wanting to tear his foot off every minute until it heals. I'm thinking I should have asked if he's got anything to keep ME calm! I'm a nervous wreck!

I've managed to reduce the number of times I check on him as I don't want him to get into a bad habit... and I think he was attention seeking tonight in his cage when I covered him, so I actually had to leave the area and go to the other end of the house as it was distressing me to hear him bang around in his cage not knowing if he was hurting himself. Mum was in the other room and said that after a while he just stopped and then started up again and when realised I wasn't coming he settled in. So it's tough but I know it has to be done!!

In the mean time I have changed his dish from just containing the pellets to mostly kitty litter (paper) with his pellets mixed in that he has to forage for. And that has been a roaring success! HALLELUJAH! I showed him me putting the pellets in their so he got the idea and now he goes down to look. So I'm thinking I might do something similar with some vegetables wrapped in paper in another container to start him with foraging for that. Up until now I stupidly thought hiding them around his cage was cutting it... or hanging the vegetables from a modified cage was enough- I now realise it's far from it.

Like you Ellie, I didn't think about his pellets being a way for him to forage. I feel incredibly guilty and have spent the last two days crying most times I look at him. I know it's silly but I just adore him and I KNOW I need to do better. I've done a lot of reading and have book marked those links you posted- thank you, thank you, thank you!!

I have a baffle cage on my watchlist on ebay and a few other toys (mostly ones that involve opening of drawers or compartments where food falls down if he turns it) on the list. It's far cheaper that way then to get it at the vet.

The main focus is just getting that foot better right now, but I'm preparing!

Thank you both so much for your help!
Sarah Xx

[MissK]

Hi Sarah,

Don't beat yourself up over this. Have fun finding goodies for the bird, and remember that birds don't see things the same way we do. There's probably a wealth of potential bird things in your house already. Have you got a small plastic (empty) food jar with a screw on lid? If you cut a few holes in the sides and put food in it, there you have a foraging toy. Try and file any sharp edges. If you have a pair of little cups, like bathroom paper water cups, or plastic shot glasses, you can drill a hole in the bottom of each, place the drinking edges together, and string them on some bird appropriate cord. Once you hang that, gravity keeps the cups together. Put food in there and watch Birdie try to get it open for a treat. Foraging. Free. Remember not to get toys that are too big or intimidating. I found that tennis ball size is a safe choice.

-MissK

[InTheAir]

Hey,

The cheapest place I've found for buying foraging wheels and stuff is the parrot society shop in Brisbane. http://www.parrotsociety.org.au/index.php they have a shop in south Brisbane, they don't always have a range of products, but worth checking out. Its even cheaper if you become a member, and their magazine is great too.

After reading your post I'm feeling guilty about how not getting Nele foraging enough.

Goodluck! He'll be fine.
Our bird loves having his pellets wrapped in paper and hidden in a kids toy cash register with a pullout draw (50c from an opshop)

Claire

[ellieelectrons]

The Parrot Society store is in Slacks Creek which is in Logan (just south of Brisbane). Last time I was there they were getting more stuff in.

I'm sure he will be okay.

Ellie.

[sahhbear]

Thank you for all the helpful tips! I'm starting to feel a little better now that he's not so bad! I know it's a way of life we'll get used to and I'm looking forward to a happier and healthier bird!

[InTheAir]

We had a fit of guilt about foraging today (and wanted to leave trouble at home all afternoon to do nonbird friendly activities) so we bought some recycled paper kitty litter.... Mixed it in his pellets and guess what he did.... Picked the kitty litter out and started eating it! After a couple goes at it we confiscated the kitty litter...and just wrapped his pellet dish in a few layers of newsprint instead... Lol

[MissK]

I throw plastic beads in the food dish. Basically, I make an octopus type toy with beads and cord. Over time he chews off the beads. I keep tossing them in the food until I am ready to rebuild the toy.

-MissK

[ellieelectrons]

We have debates about whether ours eat the kitty litter. I think they chew it up and spit it out. At the moment I'm out of it, so they're not foraging for pellets just at the moment.

Ellie.

[InTheAir]

Maybe I'm being a bit over protective... he probably will spit them out, he always spits out his plastic farm animals...
I'll try the kitty litter again

[ellieelectrons]

When I first started using it I got scared too, so I called the kitty litter company (if my memory is right, the one that I use has a picture of a kitten on the front and blue and white on the packet) which is based in Toowoomba and asked them about safety if my bird was ingesting them. They told me that the companies they source their paper from use vegetable-based print dyes, so they should be safe. As time goes in they seem less likely to eat them.

Ellie.

[InTheAir]

I was worrying he might get some kind of impaction/blockage from eating it? I read about something like that in a budgie from eating cardboard recently.. But it was a secondhand story and not by a vet.

[ellieelectrons]

Fair enough, you need to do what you feel comfortable with.

Ellie.

[sahhbear]

I thought that at first... I think it was more a novelty for him to chew but now he only does it if he gets a really long piece. Otherwise it's more of a move it out of the way with my beak and eat whatever mum's hidden in my bowl for me.