The straight poop

[Mahuska]

Hi all I haven't introduced myself(on the other topic forum)yet and have been lurching. I, as a few I see come here, for info on IRN's to see if it is kind of feathered friend for them or not. I lost a Quaker a year and a half ago. It was a tragic accident and had "Twirp" for 4 years. Last year this time I bought a Maxi Pionus and a White cap shortly after. They are great and get along very well. I will have my "new bird" in a different location and have been strongly considering the IRN's. I so appreciate this website and am amazed how big and active it is. I am confused however as when I came across it and read all of the home pages, much was said to dispell "myth's on how these birds not being good pets. I started reading the posts at the message board however and found more warnings. Especailly the thread about the pet shop worker dissuading someone about IRN"s. What's the poop? I know all are different and individual, but I am reading alot here of biting and other difficulties. I am waiting to see how the breeding of some Blue IRN's here in my area go and the babies would be ready later May if all goes well. These breeders I got my wonderfull White cap from and they abundance wean and hand rear the chicks. When I bought my Quaker(still was quaking artound 8 weeks old. The breeder/Vet said they were very quite. WRONG. Even with the screaming I still oved twirp. What a character. There seems to be some in common with IRN's except not being as cuddly as my Twirp. Well I've rambled on, I check back and get more specific if needed

[Dani03]

Hi and welcome. Please don't get most of us wrong...we love our birds and none of us would trade them for the world. But as with ANY animal you bring into your home there are risks you will be taking. IRNs, if raised right, can be some of the sweetest birds out there but also have a mind of their own and are willful little buggers. If you are considering an IRN, and I mean seriously considering one, then go through ALL the posts you can find and read everything you can here because sadly there aren't any other sites that are as good. Please understand that a Quaker is a cuddly 'in your face' love bug and an IRN is not going to replace that. What are you going to do if your new IRN turns out like Jen's Byndi or Mikaela's Baby? Are you prepeared for the work it is going to take should you get one of these 'antisocial' birds? Will you take the bites and not take them personally? (SORRY Jen and Mikaela but you guys are the best examples I could give...Mik you've done such a wonderful job with Baby and Jen is going to show Byndi who's boss pretty soon )

Please know I am not telling you not to get an IRN but I am telling you there is work involved with even the most even tempered IRN. Get knowledgeable and learn everything you can about them before your decision. We love questions and pics of bird BTW Post often

Dani and Prinny

[Mikaela]

Lets compare a Quaker with an Indian ringneck:

Quaker = teddy bear you have to check for batteries ever now and then just to make sure they are actually alive.

Indian Ringneck = an alligator, just with a more vicious bite. You WILL get bitten... alot. Even if you hand feed. These birds have to be 'broken' so to speak.

You have to break their spirit and make them realize they are going to do WHAT you say WHEN you say. You must be consistant ALWAYS. You must hold your bird as much as you would a new born DAILY. This is NOT negotiable.

Vacations? Forget them. You will come home to an untame bird and back to stage one.

An IRN is NO different than a 2 yr old that never grows up. They demand as much attention (sometimes more), WAY more patience, WAY more time that any new born ever would. Hell, their favorite game is even 'pick-up'. Very baby-like in how they interact and what they like to play with.

I dont want to turn you off IRN's but I dont want another misplaced bird.

Answer this: Could you put your hand in a cage with a bird that YOU KNOW is going to bite you, take the bites and not flinche, keep your patience and continue to demand the bird step up?

If you cant whole-heartedly answer yes to that, the IRN is NOT the bird for you. Because to tame one, this will be a must. Even hand-fed babies you raise on your own! lol

Gloves? Dont even think about it. If only it could be that easy.

An IRN bite is nothing to play with. You cut and bleed. I dont sugar-coat things so there ya have it. I'd rather you NOT get a baby rather than get one and have to give up on it.

As far as the petshop owner, hats off to him. He spoke the truth. He obviously cares about the animals after they walk out his door. Rather than making that al' mighty sale, he told the truth. Should be alot more of that out there so most of us wouldnt be housing 10-20 birds other got sick of.

[kyria]

I am not really going to make much more comment than others already have on this one. I adore my birds and think they are the most amazing intelligent, fun, but definately one of the most challenging birds out there.

But the rewards are sooooo ! special.

I think I might just say, If you are a dedicated person who likes to take on things and do them 150% to succeed, grab yourself an IRN and have the time of your life. I know I love the feeling when I can make a bird that is not easy to tame choose to like & play with me.

[Mahuska]

Since I already typed my response to Dani offline I'll copy paste it then reply to the other comments.....

Thanks for the input Dani. I think I'll post an introduction on that message forum but the jist of it would read like.
........After Twirp died I waited until the mourning period passed. I decided to get another bird, but thought perhaps
a larger one. I went back and forth between two petshops. One having a Maximillian Pionus and another a Blue crown conure.
After a couple days of back and forth I went with the Maxi. This bird was around 8-9 months old. Seemed very tame. I anticipated a
breaking in period, but all was lost when the gal I was seeing came over. THE FEMALE VOICE. I named this Maxie Lucretia
and she didn't want anything to do with me now. I was heart broken. It got worse, bit on the nose and more aggression etc.
I ended up getting this white cap Pionus "Tootie" around 8 mos old and we hit it off real well. So I figured Lucretia could be the girl friend's, and I
would concentrate on Tootie. Well the GF suddenly stopped paying any attention to Lucretia and within days she looked like S**#
Feather chewing. The GF and I went our own ways and I have been working with Lucretia for 6 mos now to get her in a better emotional state.
She is not a love sponge now but seems to enjoy my company and is not a problem with step-ups from anywhere, any height. Her feathers
were coming back then she started chewing again here lately. She really seems very content and the three of us spend alot of time together.
Tootie and Lucretia get along well, they don't seem to be concerned of the presence of Dempsey,(my well behaved Boxer) once in awhile, supervised of course.
Why do I even want another bird? Well what I am looking for is, Beauty, brains, hopefully more human speech, character. Tootie is a real lover
that fills the void from the loss of Twirp. The bond that is building between Lucretia is special as well. I am rooting for her to be happy and to accept me into her world.
It is rewarding to see the growth. Just bummed about the feather chewing. So I have been looking at many different choices. I am someone that has some metal
and is willing to invest time, love etc. I am learning to not take things personally as well. I trying to be wise in my considerations and think the IRN is a strong
candidate, since the local breeders do so well with their babies, perhaps an abundance weaned well loved and socialized IRN from them
would increase the odds of a good match. So again, I appreciate this site and any comments. There is alot to read here and sort through.
As far as what some say about Quakers, that's another one. In short Twirp was a loving, but little fire breathing dragon with attitude and was
1000 percent more noisey and shrill than my Pi's. Some of the problems I understand now to be my fault. Ignorance. but we learn.
I know Lucretia is a girl (DNA) but haven't done Tootie yet and wonder if the name is going to be an issue
I will post some pics in the Picture forum.

[Neokireina]

Uhm,. My experience is a bit different to those with the bitey birds. In summary.

Yes those myths are just myths, IRNS CAN make good pets, it doesnt depend on what colour they are or if they are male or female for talking, it all depends on how you raise your bird and their own personality.

IRNs are not cuddely. They are much harder to tame and keep tame. If you are willing to work they are elegant beautiful pets. You may have to deal with bites as Mikaela said, but then again you may not.

If you want a tame one your best bet is to get a hand raised bird (PREFERABLY from an egg, PREFEREABLY from hand raised/semi tame/ex pet Parents)
finish hand raising it yourself, get it from a very good breeder, and spend a LOT of time with it.

We will not try and sell you a bird (by that I mean make them sound good so you want to get one), you must know the ups and downs of owning one of these types of birds and be sure you want one. If all the talk about screaming and biting puts you off then an IRN is not the bird for you.

They DO make good pets but they also provide a CHALLENGE
I really admire you for doing your research BEFORE you get the bird. Know that if you do decide to get an IRN we will all be here to help you through the bad times.

[Mahuska]

Whoah Mikaela, all that sounds rather gnarly. And the Quaker comparison, hmmm, mine must of been high octane.
I quess I admit that it would be hard to not flinch if a bird was fanging out on my finger and I knew it was going to happen.
I also know how parrots can bluff, bully and test their caretakers. I am also aware of strategies to minimize such bloody encounters
as if I needed to retreive this bird from inside it's cage, I would use a stick perch. I also like the idea of using food with the hand instead
of the hand being food
A daily regimen of step-ups (outside of the cage) from
reading in "Parrot Training a guide to taming and gentling your avian companion" by Bonnie Munro Doane. I used
some of those suggestions with great sucesss. Starting from a waist high T-stand, graduating from on top of the cage to finally
the feared beakers palace, from inside the cage. This all involved time and consistancy, and not progressing until each stage is completed.
There has got to be ways to plan ahead, have a battle-plan, that
aid in training and taming w/o constant confrontations. Obviously any plan can fall apart at times. The shoulder off limits unless
the bird seems to be more trustworthy, and yes be carefull of your face. Ignoring unwanted behavior(no reward).
I have patience, willingness to learn and stick-to-it-ness. It amost seems like you are trying to bring out the worst case scenario,
rather than the norm, to help one realise the possibile pitfalls. I mean if every word you said were entirely true, no one in
their right mind would want a IRN. So why would I still consider one after all this? Boneheaded I quess, so that might be
the kind of compatibilty we are looking for. Oh yeah you mentioned the no vacation issue. The link from this site to the page
"Ingredients to the perfect working person's bird" gives the impression that after a good 6 mos of consistent work that all isn't for naught
if you are gone briefly and return. I do appreciate you comments and concern, and admit to feeling some strong concerns. In the end
it is all how we measure things, the scale. If the work pays some dividends. That brings me to kyria's comments. Thanks, it
seems like when it is all said and done, you wouldn't have it any other way. BTW I am that 150% kinda guy

Thanks Neokireina I appreciate everyones comments.


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[darkcloudchild]

Well, I've had my IRN's for almost 3 years now. I have taken many a vacations and haven't come back to a horrible or untame bird yet. Of course, I have a breeder that is more than willing to bird-sit when I can find no one else to watch them. Usually I have a couple of great friends that I can depend on to spend time with them, handle them and feed and water them. So, I've no trouble there.

My two do get a little moody at times. But what person or bird doesn't have a bad day here or there? They want to be alot like a human, so why not the emotions also?

We ended up with our two IRN's w/o knowing a thing about them. I've never owned another bird before, but I really don't think and IRN is very hard to handle or deal with so long as you start with a young, handfed one. This is just from my experience though, and I may one of few exceptions when it comes to my birds and as well-behaved as they are.

Sounds like your are a very dedicated person though, and that decision is purely up to you.

Good Luck!

[Neokireina]

I think you pretty much got it all covered. If you can face the worst case scenario the rest is a breeze. To make it easy to avoid a potentially difficult bird you should visit and talk to a breeder with good birds that hand raises. Build up a repoire with said breeder not as just some guy selling you a bird.

Really nose around and find out how he treats his birds and if he handles the babies when he feeds them. See if he will teach you how to feed them and if you can finish hand raising it yourself. See if he will help you if you have future troubles.

Every time I visit my breeder he takes me around his aviaries and I have a lookie. I nose around in his nursary. I got to pick up a baby ekkie !! so heavy lol. Anyways good luck with your birdie.

[Mazziemom]

I didnt read everything, I'm physically and emotionally worn... so if someone said this.. sorry.

I really disagree with the statement that you have to "Break their spirit". I believe it is far more important... and in the end far better for your relationship... if you earn their trust. They don't give it lightly, but once they do... its for life.

Myth: You have to handle these birds daily. I just got back from a four day trip.. no one touched my IRN's while I was gone (they were fed and watered, thats it). I walked in, picked them up, and kissed them. Simple as that.. because we have a good relationship.

Myth: They all bite. Buddy hasnt bitten me. I've had him since he was weaned. He threatened to bite me when he went through the bluffing stage, but he never carried through. Mazzie bit the crap out of me, but she was an adult bird with no taming or training at all when I got her.

IRN's are amazing companions. They are loud, they are capable of biting the crud out of you.... but they are wonderful too. I love them dearly, and after seven years with them I feel the same way I did the first time I laid eyes on one... "Beautiful... I need one of those in my life."

Athena

[Mikaela]

Some things people have said prior isnt jiving with what they are saying now.

Please see these link, it may help you decide. The links are to prior posts on this topic.

http://www.indianringneck.com/board/vie ... light=cage

http://www.indianringneck.com/board/vie ... t=vacation

I want what's best for the bird.

Keeping it honest!

Good Luck

[Neokireina]

I'm getting a little confused by what we are arguing about.

IRNs would need a LOT of daily attention and playing when they are young. After say 6 months I think they are pretty much set.

I think baby may be just moody not wild. :p

My birds get very little attention from me, they spend all their time with my other birds. Thats why I have multiple birds because I cant give them all the attention they need. They all still want to hang out with/on me to varying degrees.

Yuki will HUNT ME DOWN if I so much as go to the bathroom. Growls and Kiva come down for treats and step up if I ask nice. (with flighted birds they can choose to say no and fly off) The Mew twins dont like hands but they fly down to my or jays shoulder and chew our necklaces, sometimes...

My pet IRNs test their biting limits every now and then but I discourage them from biting. so no, the only time I bleed from an IRN is when I handle my aviary birds. Kiva and Niamh have NEVER bitten, not once.

All birds are different. You just need to take the time to look closer.

[Mahuska]

I am glad to get the advice and comments here and appreciate this site so. I joined a couple Yahoo Pionus groups when first I bought my Pi's, but admit I really think this site and the people here are more too my liking. We humans do have different experiences and that is why certain strong opinions may not seem to be "always the case". Perhaps that is what we have here. I am actually pretty much settled on the idea of aquirring a IRN now. I can relate to the warnings of the pitfalls of ownership(although who owns who, the bird or the human). Mikaela you say you want what is best for the bird. Well I feel I am worthy and if for some reason all my efforts fail and I can't see any other recourse, I would do what is in the best interest of the IRN. I take responsible pet ownership very seriously. I breaks my heart to see suffering. Once again I thank you ALL, and hope to be a active member here. BTW. I did share this thread with the Local breeder and was once again reminded that their birds are very tame and don't exhibit much of the negative tendancys described here. The aren't after my money and are very honest and caring and want the right match.

[Neokireina]

I'm so excited for you. Post us pics as soon as you get your new baby.
I think tho none of us need to worry you sound really committed and I'm sure you'll fit in here with the rest of us bird nuts. If you have a good repoire with a breeder and have seen their birds and how they raise them it's a good place to start to look for your fid.
Hand raised (handled lots) weaned baby is what to look for. Good luck

[kyria]

I am so glad you have looked deeply into this, considered everything and are that 150% guy. I am also glad you are a part of our ever growing wonderful family. I look forward to hearing about your new fid and your experiences with him/her, more shared more learned .. and the pics and vids to come One lucky bird has a wonderful human coming its way !

Cheers !

[Dani03]

Ooo yes please post pics when you get your baby! We are nuts about pics... I agree with Kyria, you have done a great job in researching and that IRN you decide to get in going to a lucky bird. Keep us updated!

Dani and Prinny

[Mahuska]

Thanks you all, this is so cool. Remember we are looking at May and the breeding is supposed to be going on now, but they have had chicks before. One thing he/she will be Blue

[kyria]

woohooo! blue like my Kai After his first full moult he just went through (summer - 15 months old) his feathers have come back as smooth as satin. I love that about the IRN's, how perfectly smooth and silky they look. <action> marks in May - Mahuska's new fid