Does bald female need a companion?

kraftygurl · Post by **kraftygurl** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:45 pm

I have a 3 year old lutino that is bald. We have tried everything to help her stop plucking but to no avail. Her diet is very good, and she seems happy. I was just wondering if a companion might be what she is looking for. What are the chances that I could get another IRN and that they would get along? If I do, can I house them together? Should I get a male or a female or does it matter? Could a companion help her stop plucking?

Mikaela · Post by **Mikaela** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:00 am

I wonder if the bird may have an underlying condition.

She seems otherwise happy and content which brings me to that conclusion.

I would do much research on beak and feathers diseases and see if anything meshes. I sure hope not. :cry:

Please let us know what you find out. Do you actually see her excessively pruning, plucking, ect.? Or are her feathers just sparse?

Can you provide a picture of your bird?

kraftygurl · Post by **kraftygurl** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 7:57 am

She lets her feathers start to come in and about once a month she pulls them all out. It seems to be a cycle. No she is bald, not "sparsely" feathered. Her entire body is bald, just her head and wings left, but she is working on the wings now. I don't know how many homes she has had. My Mother-in-law got her from a rescue about a year ago and was going to put her down due to the plucking. :evil:

So I offered to take her and have had her for 3 1/2 months. Unfortunately, I have been laid off since I've had her and have not been able to take her to the vet yet. I want all the blood work done, so it will have to wait for a bit longer. I would imagine(hope) that the rescue had a check up done since she was plucking there. I have seen her pulling very few out when "preening".

I have a picture on yahoo photos but I do not know how to post it here. I tried but all I get is a link that doesn't work. Please tell me how to post a picture. Thanks for your reply, Amy.

Mikaela · Post by **Mikaela** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:36 am

Give us the link to the yahoo page and we should be able to view it from there.

kraftygurl · Post by **kraftygurl** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:02 am

These are photos taken the first week that I got her. She is a bit worse now that she has large bare spots on her wings as well. This is what she looks like before she pulls them out.

She apparently used to be hand tame but has not been handled in at least a year. She will step up only if she has "flown"(she's clipped) to the floor. Other than that she is terrified of hands unless they are offering food which has never been a problem! :lol:

I was thrilled last night because I was singing back to her as I was just about to cover her and was able to pet her cheek through the bars for a bit! She had her head tilted way back with her eyes almost closed as she whistled and chirped at me. It was the greatest feeling that she finally let me touch her.

http://ca.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/krafty ... pg&.src=ph

http://ca.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/krafty ... pg&.src=ph

http://ca.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/krafty ... pg&.src=ph

Mikaela · Post by **Mikaela** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:06 pm

What a beautiful baby... bless her heart.

Can anyone shed some light on this, she looks so content and happy.

darkcloudchild · Post by **darkcloudchild** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:20 pm

I don't remember if this came from a conversation with my grandfather, or if it's something I read...

I was told for birds that pluck, if you can get a peacock feather and put it in their cage for them to mutilate on, they'll almost always pick that over themselves. I don't know if there's any truth to this, cause I know of no-one that has tried it. I'm really tempted to try it myself because I think on of mine is starting to become a plucker.

Mazziemom · Post by **Mazziemom** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:14 pm

Nope, Peacock feathers don't help. I know, I have them

I havent had a chance to look at the pics, however, plucking in ringnecks is very very rarely emotionally based. It is almost always based on a physical cause (illness or injury) so a vet trip is 100% important.

Sadly, it can become a habit too easily, and it sounds like you might already be there if its been this long...

Like biting our fingernails, or smoking, its a very very hard habit to break.

Athena

Mazziemom · Post by **Mazziemom** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:15 pm

Erk, looked at the pics...

Test for giardia. Plucking on the chest/vent area is usually caused by giardia. It returns false negative results on tests a lot, so some vets will just treat for it to save you the money of retesting over and over...

Athena

Jade · Post by **Jade** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:33 pm

We have a tv vet called Dr Harry. I saw an episode where lorikeets were plucking just like your baby does. He used vaseline/petroleum jelly all over their bodies because the birds HATE the oiliness and so therefore, will not be plucking. It gives the new feathers a chance to come through and hopefully make the bird forget about the plucking because they associate it with the vaseline which they hate.

Personally though, that is a short measure until you get enough $ to see a vet.

Post by **kyria** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:27 pm

I am so glad that someone who really cares has that baby now. Thankyou first for saving and now helping that little darling.

Just remember already you and your bird are serving a great purpose, helping others (like me) to read and learn about this problem.

Bless you and I will pray that your efforts pay off.

kraftygurl · Post by **kraftygurl** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:38 pm

I have researched the PBFD but she does not seem to have any of the symptoms(other than the missing feathers) such as the black shafts, her feathers are not falling out, her beak is in perfect condition, her head is in great feather, her wings were in great feather until moving here. Giardia could be a possibility but I hope not. I just found out that my In-laws did take her to the vet when they first got her and she came out with a clean bill of health. I don't know what her life was like before the rescue but if she ended up there, probably not great.

Unfortunately at my in-laws, she did not get much sunlight as the blinds were never opened, they are heavy smokers in an apartment, she was on a seed diet with fresh food and whatever junk food she squaked for, and was hardly ever bathed, just a light misting once in a while because she hated water :evil:

.

I now have her beside a window where she can look out all day long and a corner of her cage catches some sunlight in the afternoon if she wants it. I have changed her to a pellet diet with cooked meals twice a day and fresh fruit and veggies every day. She still gets junk food quite often, usually a peanut, almond, cracker, the worst being a potato chip(She will not stop squaking until she gets one!).

She still does not get bathed as much as I would like, but I mist her about once a week and every other week when I tear her cage apart to be thoroughly scrubed she goes with it into the bathtub and gets soaked with the shower head.

As for the vaseline idea, sounds great in theory, but I cannot touch her. She will take food from anyones hand but that's as far as it goes. She will only step up if she has jumped(she's clipped) off her cage onto the floor. I cannot get her to step up while on her cage.

She does not play with toys, or chew anything. I have given her a bowl of foot toys such as a ball of jute(which she attacks and throws on the floor), rawhide sticks, pine pieces, maple chunks, a pinecone, cinnamon sticks, pieces of lego(again attacks), popsicle sticks, and army men. She has a cat ball with a plastic bell in it on the bottom of her cage which she attacks and throws around once in a while. The only toy she will "play" with is a rope toy that has a bell on it. She continually attacks the bell. Is this how IRN's play? By attacking(I mean lunging and striking) an object?

For Xmas Santa is bringing her a Pick-A-Peanut and a rope perch that has a knot in the end of it with a million threads hanging at the end meant for plucking birds. I am hoping that she will preen this instead of herself so much. I am waiting to find out if my petstore can order Pluck No More in. I have heard remarkable results from this product from people I trust and am willing to try it. Being an antidepressant, I am hoping that I might be able to train her a little easier as well while she is on it.

Anyways, thank you for all your replies and comments. I look forward to hearing more and reading and learning more from this site. I enjoy looking at all the photos and videos of what IRN's are supposed to look and act like...maybe someday Beanie will look like that

.

Just one more thing, my original question was never addressed. Do you think a mate could help my little girl? She does have company, 3 tiels and a GC conure, but do you think she may be lacking one of her own kind? My husband says no more birds, were running out of room, but if this could help... :wink:

Jade · Post by **Jade** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:47 am

Hello again. I just read your new post. I think at this stage, your little one needs to get her head sorted out before getting a new mate. it could be more stress for her and i think she needs a lot of loving right now. I am no expert, i just learn as i go. trial and error. I hope your little one comes good though.

Good luck, and my best wishes in him getting better.

Mazziemom · Post by **Mazziemom** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:03 am

I think you'd probably never get her tame if you did get her a mate. Even if she hated the mate... she's still prefer it to you, after all it would be a bird and you are not.

JMHO on that one of course.

On toys... Mazzie came to me refusing to play too. She too was an "attack" bird, both in attacking me and toys. After experimenting I discovered two things that got her interested enough to check them out.

First, take a mini whiffle ball, lots of leather lace and some beads. thread the lace through the ball and tie on a bead, making a good knot. Keep doing this over and over, making a long chain of knots/beads. Do it for every hole in the ball. Maz could care less about the ball, or the beads, but the KNOTS got her attention. She loves to untie knots! I did try just giving her lots of leather with knots, but without the beads she wasn't interested... dunno why. Perhaps there wasnt enough visual stimulation?

The other thing that she loves (still does, still has it, almost seven years later now) was so simple its stupid. I took a toilet paper roll, cut it in half, and taped one end closed. I then put a small handful of dried beans in it and taped the other end closed. I taped the heck out of the whole thing... and gave it to her as a rattle. Its a bit big for her, but she loves to knock it around. She'll drag it close to her sleep spot at night. Not all birds are safe for this toy, the tape could be a big danger, but she never once tried to peel it... just beat it up instead.

You said you moved your birds cage near a window, which is great, but the glass filters the sunlight. Full spectrum lighting is really important for birds. You can get a simple fixture at the hardware store and buy a simple full spec light bulb at the pet shop. If you do it that way it costs about 20 bucks. Or you can go expensive and get one from one of the places that makes them just for birds. I like Featherbrite myself

Millet sprays were part of the key for me with taming Mazzie, BTW. She'd do just about anything to get some. Even tolerate me

.

Athena

mkmagu · Post by **mkmagu** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 4:49 am

I took a toilet paper roll, cut it in half, and taped one end closed.

Toilet paper rolls & paper towel rolls are not safe they have zinc in them and the glue used to attach the paper is not a non-toxic glue. It could make your bird sick.

I tried the pluck no more with no results so I would not reccomend it, also some question the ingredients saying they are not safe for birds or people either.

I would suggest getting on feeding feathers yahoo list and the plucking list at yahoogroups. I do know sweet potato is a no no for pluckers.

Mazziemom · Post by **Mazziemom** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 7:35 pm

Yep, toilet paper roll is totally encased in tape.... no contact with it.

Why would you say sweet potato is a no no? Its very high in vitamin A, an excellent food for birds. I've always fed it regularly and haven't had problems.

Athena

kraftygurl · Post by **kraftygurl** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 9:27 pm

Just an update on Beanie. Just before the holidays we moved her cage because she was catching a draft from the door of the mudd room. When we moved her cage before she plucked like crazy so we put her back where she was. This time I figured she can't get much worse, and the possibitlity of stress for her was better then the draft she was getting. So we moved her to the only other spot that we could, beside the tiels and conure's cages. There is a tree(that I made) between her cage and theirs and the first thing that she did was climb from her cage onto the tree! I had this tree beside her for weeks when I first made it and she wanted nothing to do with it. She had never willingly left the safety of her cage before this so we were in shock. She also climbed through the tree and over to the other cages to check them out. It has been almost 2 weeks now and I will let them all out at the same time. She still doesn't like any of the other birds too close to her(hence the kink in the end of one tiel's tail!) but she seems to enjoy the company. Now she is always in the tree and hardly ever on her cage. I think this is a great advancement for her and am very happy that we moved her. So far she is letting her feathers come back in because she seems to be too occupied with watching the other birds now. But she seems to go througha one month cycle, let the feathers start to come in for a couple of weeks and then pull them all out again. So I guess we will just have to wait and see.

Also she loves one of her new toys that Santa brought her, a Pick-A-Peanut. A peanut shaped toy that holds treats inside. I put some shelled peanuts inside and could not even hang it before she had a hold of it trying to get the peanuts out! It's almost as big as her but she had pulled it up and balanced it on her perch!

Thanks so much for all the advice and I will keep you updated. I am going to check out these yahoo groups that mkmagu suggested and try to find out why sweet potato is a no-no. All my birdies love it.

Post by **Datsun and Family** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 9:44 pm

That is so good to hear, please do keep us updated. She sounds like such a character!

diz-awn · Post by **diz-awn** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:07 pm

you had said that she WAS in a home with heavy smokers, I have heard that smoke alone will make a bird pluck, just like us, they hate the smell.

kraftygurl · Post by **kraftygurl** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:23 pm

Well things are still looking good, she still has not touched her feathers. Unfortunately, today I had to move the tree that she used to get to the other cages to the other side of her cage. Beanie was on the tiels cage and bit one of the tiels feet through the bars. It did not bleed(thank goodness, but I had the Quik Stop ready) but poor Sunshine is in pain. 5 hours later she is still shaking her foot and chewing at it. I can see where the bite is but it did not break the skin all the way. I put her in the kitchen sink with a bit of warm water just to soak it for a few minutes. She can still use it just fine, climbing and perching. Hopefully by morning she is okay. But Beanie is not happy that she can't get over to their cage anymore. Anyways, I am going to try posting some updated pictures in the photo section for you all.

mkmagu · Post by **mkmagu** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:48 pm

Mazziemom wrote:Yep, toilet paper roll is totally encased in tape.... no contact with it.

Why would you say sweet potato is a no no? Its very high in vitamin A, an excellent food for birds. I've always fed it regularly and haven't had problems.

Athena

It's only a no no if the bird is plucking, it has been linked to plucking.

mkmagu · Post by **mkmagu** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:52 pm

kraftygurl wrote:I had the Quik Stop ready

I read somewhere that you should not use Quick Stop on birds, most reccomend Corn Starch as an alternative.

Have you tried ruling out food allergies with the plucking?

kraftygurl · Post by **kraftygurl** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:25 pm

The Quik Stop I have is specifically designed for birds. I know not to use it on broken wing feathers, but it's okay for nails. I never really thought about using it on the tiels foot. Good call.

I have never heard of food allergies in birds. Could you give me a little more info or where you found info. What foods are more likely to produce an allergy?

mkmagu · Post by **mkmagu** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:11 am

Any food can cause an allergy, but some more than others will do so. There are 2 yahoo lists that I would suggest joining one is feeding feathers which is great for anyone with birds. The other one is Feather Picking which covers both behavior, feeding socialization etc.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FeedingFeathers/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Featherpicking/

mkmagu · Post by **mkmagu** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:24 am

kraftygurl wrote: There is a tree(that I made) .

Can you post a picture?? I've been thinking of doing this for my birds as well.

FYI - There is a new study out on pluckers they could not find any concrete information on why a bird does pluck but they did notice that birds that have cages close to doors pluck more than those in the middle of the room. I wish I had saved the link to the study but I didn't not sure if this helps you or not.

kraftygurl · Post by **kraftygurl** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:22 pm

http://www.statesman.com/health/content ... 30092.html

I believe this is the discussion that you are refering to. After reading this all that I could conclude is that none of the "researchers" have ever owned a bird of any sort. I wouldn't give this "study" any credibility. But thanks for the reply anyway, when she was plucking at my MIL's she was nowhere near a door or window.

The tree that I made was just a large branch that we cut from our maple tree, hosed it and scrubbed it, stuck it in a big pot of dirt, and tied some other small branches on it for horizontal perches. Hung a few toys and voila!

This is the best photo that I have of it right now. It's not very big because it was meant for the tiels.

http://ca.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/krafty ... pg&.src=ph