new bub - feeding help

[jimmyjack]

so ive just got a new baby, about 4 weeks old. still a baby only a parent could love. its been feeding with its mother until now, and ive only just got him yesterday. Needless to say, he's still frightened of us, and doesnt call for food or seek it when we try to feed. is this just safety mechanism that we are still threats?

i was hoping i could get some advice on how much, how often, and when to feed. we were told 30mL about five times a day, but ive been reading and told to keep an eye on the crop. He's taking about 20 odd mLs three times a day (based on today!). We're using a probiotic formula fed through a syringe, all utensils sterilised by boiling.

also, HOW do you feed without spilling it all down themselves??? half of the formula leeks down his face instead of the throat? part of me is seeing reason and justifying it as first experience being fed by humans, and through a syringe, and a different food type. the other part of me is in worried parent phase. i dont want to stress him out too much by handling etc but cant let him starve

and now a picture of the little guy. hes so beautifully ugly. im in love already

[Lilly]

Awwww how cute!
As for the food spillage all babies do this... can't really be helped.
The only thing to do is to just give them a good wipe off round their beaks after a meal.

[jimmyjack]

and as for the reluctance? is that just a need to adjust and adapt to humans?

how often should this guy be eating? am i right in judging by whether there is food in the crop or not?

[julie]

try touching the beak with your thumb and finger like the mother would with her beak, do that then try to feed the little fella.make sure the formula is the right temps. I found that putting the syringe in the right side off the beak to get the formula to go down the left side works well. I also put small amounts in the mouth at a time so they dont get too much everywhere.
You can also try adding some stewed fruit or veg in the formula, I just use a jar of baby food.

[julie]

also has the baby got heating in with it? if it gets too cold it wont eat properly.

check out the guide by Melika in the breeding section for some tips.
also try giving him a gentle rub where the feathers are coming out, they normally love it but they dont like it when you stop.

[jimmyjack]

i'll give that a go with the rubbing. im in eastern australia. right now ambient temp is low 30's so from what ive read about temps to keep them at, its not necessary. i definately wouldnt want to be much hotter right now! (though give it another month and it will be...).

had a bit more luck today, not as much spillage, and i could see he was opening his throat reasonably quickly to allow the food to go down. thanks for the suggestions. feathers definately dont look very comfortable to grow...

[Melika]

I found that putting the syringe in the right side off the beak to get the formula to go down the left side works well.

NO! This was a mistake. You should be feeding the opposite, like this.



Of course, sorry Julie if you meant "right side" as your right if looking at the bird. In which case you would be correct. But my initial thought was you meant the bird's right side, which would be incorrect and lethal. I thought a correction for any other readers would be a good idea just in case.


With the syringe, I actually never had a problem with spillage. From the picture, you can see it was easy to put my thumb and forefinger of my restraining hand on either side of the beak to stimulate the chick to bob for food if needed.

Doing that and feeding along with the bobbing/swallowing only and pushing the syringe at a pace it could keep up with (letting the chick rest when needed) prevented both spillage and aspiration.

[ellieelectrons]

That's really interesting... I didn't know that the food only goes down one side???? I've never handraised ringies... but I might one day, so that's really good to know.

Ellie.

[julie]

by the pic it looks right to what I do. one way they refuse (the wrong way) the right way they gulp it down.

Mine get distracted by so much always going on at my place and i end up with food everywhere. even the other birds distract the babies.

[Melika]

I knew you fed correctly, Julie. Like I said in my post it could just be read wrong (I did initially) and clarification can't hurt.


Yes, all parrots should be fed from the correct side if you are using a syringe. Their esophagus and trachea are side by side and they have no epiglottis to keep the larynx/trachea covered when they swallow. Forcing food in the wrong direction can put the food down into their lungs- which is, of course, very bad.

Another interesting factoid: birds also lack a diaphragm. The chest cavity has to be able to expand and contract for breathing. That is how young children accidentally kill sweet little budgies; holding on too tightly.

[ellieelectrons]

Thanks for the info... that's really interesting!

Ellie.

[Poppy]

There will ALWAYS be mess when rearing them this way! i used to put a piece of newspaper down and kept some cotton wool and warmish water on hand and give her a good wipe down afterwards!

Personally I prefer using a spoon to a syringe just because im scared i push the syringe too hard and drown the little fellow!

When the crop is full they should lose interest - over feeding is also not good.

[jimmyjack]

the little one - salvador - is still more interested in hiding from us than in feeding, so its necessary to use the syringe instead of spoon for the time being. thats fantastic advice melika, and thank you for teling me. i havent been putting the syringe down the throat more just sitting it in the beak and letting him swallow (well, we say he, but have no idea!). anyway, as yet we have no bobbing action. by the sound if it you stimulate the action yourself? how, if i may?

[julie]

mine bobbed at me when i was being too slow

[jimmyjack]

well, we have two sounds...

the first being the infamous "bugger off!" squawk my other IRN would make whilst plowing into my thumb when i first got her.

the second was a gorgeous few chirps i could only interpret as "give me attention" of "feed me"...

both were made when approaching the home, on seperate occasions.

[Melika]

the little one - salvador - is still more interested in hiding from us than in feeding, so its necessary to use the syringe instead of spoon for the time being. thats fantastic advice melika, and thank you for teling me. i havent been putting the syringe down the throat more just sitting it in the beak and letting him swallow (well, we say he, but have no idea!). anyway, as yet we have no bobbing action. by the sound if it you stimulate the action yourself? how, if i may?

Placing the tips of my thumb and forefinger on the sides of the beak at the base on their head usually got them to bob. It's similar to how the parents beak would touch the corners while it was being fed. He is probably just still a little leery of you, since he was left so long with his parents but he'll come around! Spend time with him after feedings too. I liked to cuddle them up in a towel in my lap for a bit while they were stuffed and quiet. Touch his feet, etc. Get him used to you and being touched.

The syringe doesn't actually go down their throat, in my pic it just looks like that because he was bobbing into it but the end of the syringe is right there inside his beak. I was never feeding in a hurry so yeah, I would slow down/stop pushing on the plunger until they began bobbing again. Like Julie was saying, it means FEED ME NOW!

[jimmyjack]

so all is well, ive moved onto a spoon, and hes gobbling and bobbing away at feeding. a nice change and i think hes warmed alot to us now.

hes also started picking at food, at now ive come to another road block. ive been giving him fruit and veg to pick at which he has been devouring. theres also millet spray in there and hes starting to crack the husks. i was speaking to my local breeder/pet shop owner who says i should NOT give him any fruit or veg until about 14 weeks as it can lead to them getting gastro and having problems, and that this can be particularly bad with young ones. i hadnt read anything about this anywhere so wanted to double check with people.

his formula is also a probiotic - would this offset any potential bad bacteria that could cause gastro?

[Melika]

I'm happy to hear he's eating well!

As to what "gastro" means... gastro-intestinal problems?

I would imagine problems if the fresh foods were out too long and he still ate them. For average room temperature, the rule is don't leave fresh foods out for more than three hours. After that they get tossed.

Perhaps another problem would be if a person hand-fed only by amount (instead of adapting to what the chick needs at just that feeding) and forced a full meal on a chick that has been eating fresh foods well, thereby overfeeding and the crop not emptying properly?

I have never heard anything such as what your breeder said. Our chicks began eating veggies at an early age and some breeders even mix fruit/veggies/baby food into formula. In fact, one of the remedies for a crop emptying slowly is to incorporate greens/applesauce/baby food into the formula.

[jimmyjack]

okay, great! thanks melika. i thought it contradictory to everything else i'd heard, but thought best to ask.

ive also started mixing fruit baby food into the formula - he eats twice as much!