DOM. Pied - Will they be masked by INO?

Ring0Neck · Post by **Ring0Neck** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:56 am

Well, i am planning of getting dominant pied ringnecks for next breeding season.
I have an Albino hen masking violet that i want to pair up with this dom. pied cock i'm planning to get.
The Question is: Will ino mask the pied?
I know that first year only the males will be split ino but looking down the track pairing the offspring will give me Color__ ino dom.pied hens.
How will these birds look? white? as an Albino? will marking of dominant pie show? being dominant?

Thanks for your input :!:

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:23 am

Dominant refers only to it's mode of inheritance with respect to wild type genes. It's not necessarily dominant over all other mutations.

I believe that dominant pied will be masked in an ino bird, just like the violet is masked in your albino hen. Both pied and ino work by shutting off melanin production in the feathers. The ino gene shuts off melanin production in all the feathers and the pied gene shuts off melanin in some of the feathers. Since the ino gene shuts off all the melanin the pied gene should be left with nothing to do.

That's my logic, anyway. I've admittedly never seen an ino bird that I knew to be carrying the dominant pied gene. If someone (Fah? Jay?) wants to confirm or correct me, please do so.

Jim

Fah · Post by **Fah** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:00 am

Heya, Jim is spot on from what I know. Pied does not have the same effect as turquoise when it comes to ino.

I know a guy who has ended up with a Dom. Pied Blue split Ino cock bird that he now has as a bird that he uses as just a foster parent to other pieds he has. (extremely frustrating when you spend the larger portion of $ on a specific mutation only to have a possible half the hens come out ino).

His pairing of a Dom. Pied Blue split ino cock with a blue hen threw on their first year, a albino hen, a dom.pied blue hen, and two blue cocks (not yet known if the cocks are split ino or not). Suggesting no special terms regarding the ino and pied genes at this limited scope of testing.

I believe he actually hand raised the ino to give to a friend as a pet... I dont think he is interested in dedicating the years / space to simply end up with more pieds split ino in the future. Or dedicate the time to breeding normal ino birds. He is one of the 'purists' I guess you could say, who felt more burnt at the idea of his pied coming with the ino gene.

He, among others, will say that mixing ino into the current limited pied population we have, is possibly a very irresponsible thing to do... only to be done without knowledge. And I guarantee you I would not know a breeder who would purchase your line of Pied cocks knowing you have introduced ino into the mix.

If you are looking to get into pieds, I would highly suggest you work with clean stock (ie, no ino) for two main reasons... continuity of the line... and prospective sales (i mean, as much in all we dont live in a perfect world where you can keep all the young you have). Noone wants a pied that I know of that will throw ino hens.

Razsringnecks · Post by **Razsringnecks** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:46 pm

Wow Fah,
Thant was fantastic to read.
Hear I was thinking no....don't mix ino.... :oops:

however that was only my opinion

....and it is great to extend our mutations, but you have to be very honest when selling these birds as to their genetic make up. Personally I would hate to purchase a pied and later find out it is split to ino :!:

Thank-you for your great knowledge....This was a pleasure to read.

Fah · Post by **Fah** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:30 pm

Thanks. I have nothing against broadening what we have, and working towards new and interesting combinations. Some gene's however just dont go down well with the breeding community with others.

Basicly, with the higher end of the spectrum of mutations, you do not want a gene that is going to mask the particular mutation you are trying to breed. Ino / Grey are two very big oh-ohh's in many peoples eyes regarding violets and cobalts for example... as it is guesswork as to what they actually are until you breed with them (an extremely time consuming process just to figure out what you have... hence avoided).

An example of time consuming with testing mutations of unknown ino's etc could very be one of my own... however far more basic an example... the truth lay in any situation. I have a single factor turquoise blue hen, with a blue (pure) cock. In three breeding seasons they have given me 11 young..... all blue (even though turquoise is a 50-50 thing, doesnt mean half your stock will be turquoise

)

Some in the US are having headaches with the elusive Non Sex Linked Ino gene (as difficult to breed with as cleartails etc) in the cleartail blood lines.

Dont get me wrong, I am all up for putting an aviary or more aside for mixing mutations and especially introducing new blood into current mutations I have (a timely, but very productive thing for the following generations of birds that are one day to come). However, it must be done with caution, and with extensive paper trails, and honest selling of birds you do no longer wish to keep / trail with.

Cheers. There are several of us, each with im sure more knowledge in some areas than others, who are more than willing to help people know what they are breeding with, and possible helpful info.

Jim, Jay and myself among others im sure, just enjoy everything that Indian Ringnecks have to offer and if we can help others understand just that little bit more about the genetics behind it... all the better. I am far from all-knowing, and still enjoy learning new things about genetics behind these little fellas.

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:14 pm

Hijacking the thread for a moment...

You've gotten 11 straight blues from a SF turquoise to blue pairing??!! Wow. The chances of that happening are less than 1 in 2,000. (Professional math nerd here. I can't help but get excited about stuff like that.)

OK. You can have the thread back now.

Jim

pinkdevil · Post by **pinkdevil** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:32 pm

If only everyone was that easy to get excited lol

Ring0Neck · Post by **Ring0Neck** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:50 pm

Great Info. Thanks Guys

Fah, thumbs up for you. Truth is if someone else asked me the same question i asked i would have replied same as you guys..not as detailed but rather a straight Don't do it
One would ask.. if you know why ask the Q? Confirming what i suspect is true and i know that opening interesting threads as this, many others will read up on them and become more informed and value this site more.
Believe me, i talk to 20-30 year experienced breeders and they still make mistakes or waste their time pairing the wrong birds ..not having "The know how"
keep up the good work.

** I am a devoted ringneck breeder and i want to know it all although this is my first year breeding ringnecks i have learned heaps and a great lot from this site. Like Fah says: we will always keep on learning.

Fah · Post by **Fah** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:25 am

Too true Jim (just goes to show crazy stuff does happen).

Unfortunately I bought the bird back when they cost a pretty penny as a bub... and well... as you can tell, not the happiest chappy

But she has given me 11 big healthy young *grumble even if they are blues grumble* And her young have been some of the most tame IRN's I have ever bred with... so really shouldnt complain.