Hand Feeding babies

[MonknSharona]

Hi all. I've been curious about something for a long time and want to get as many opinions as I can.

When it comes to hand rearing chicks, I feel a bit confused. This goes for all types of birds, not just IRNs.

People always say that hand feeding chicks helps them to be more tame in the future. They are more used to being around people and handling. I know that it obviously doesn't guarantee a tame chick if continued interaction isn't done.

And then people say that non-hand reared chicks can't be tamed and are more difficult to handle.

Here's where I get confused. I'll use a couple of my birds for my example and I apologize if this gets lengthy.

My Ruby, SI Ekkie, was hand fed as a chick. She wasn't mine in the beginning, and I got her at almost 1 year of age (11 months). She is completely tame and handleable. The only problem is that she has no idea that she's a bird! She doesn't know how to play with toys and doesn't want to. She can't and won't try to fly. She basically has no idea who to be a bird. Playtime to her is sitting here with me while I read or watch TV. I try with every effort to get her to play, give her all kinds of options and she simply doesn't know what to do with it. She's now four years of age and completely the same.

Now, let's look at Posey, my Albino IRN. She was not hand fed as a chick, was parent raised. She was used as a breeder by two or three different breeders before we got her at the age of 2. (of course, she never successfully bred by any of the previous owners). This bird is completely independant, flies well, plays with all her toys like she should and can keep herself occupied for hours on end. She is also totally tame!

I'll pick Simon next, a TAG. He was hand fed as a chick, then stuck in a cage for the first 10 years of his life. I got him about 8 months ago and he was meaner than a snake! Now after working with him he is quite tame, although cage agressive. Anyway, he is a very independant bird and knows how to be a bird, plays with his toys and can keep his mind occupied.

Paisley is my 12 year old cockatiel who was not hand fed as a chick, is tame and is also independant. She doesn't play with toys, never has, but she can keep herself occupied and knows how to be a bird.

Wealsey is an English Budgie and was not hand raised and he too is a very confident bird.

Lily, the LCA, was a wild import many years ago (before I was even born as a matter of fact) and while she is quite independant and head strong she doesn't really know how to be a bird much (she has had a very questionable history).

Mork and Mindy are BFA's and they are breeders; completely confident in their birdie selves, independant and will stand up to anyone who questions them! While they aren't completely wild, they can be handled but they can also keep themselves occupied and again, know what they are.

I realize that differences will occur with the various breeds and personalites but my overall feeling is that non-hand fed chicks are more independant birds as they get older. Being a vet tech with small animals, it reminds me much of kittens. When many of them are hand raised instead of raised by their mothers, they can be quite nippy when they get older not knowing their limits and what is acceptable behavior that is taught by their mothers (it doesn't go for all cats but in my own experience, it does happen).

So, what are your personal feelings on this? Wouldn't chicks that are reared by their parents have just as much potential as being tame, handleable birds as those that are hand fed? As long as the owner is able to handle them quite often as they get older and ready to wean wouldn't there be a better chance for them to still be nice, tame birds but still know that they are indeed birds? Still know the traits that their parents teach them to make them more independant and comfortable with their surroundings?

It's just something I've thought about over the years and I dont even know if it amounts to anything, but I wanted to post anyway and see what everyone thinks of this.

Thanks for your input! I'm excited to read your replies!!!

[Donna]

OK I'll try to explain my thoughts on this and this is just my opinion and experience.


1.My Ruby, SI Ekkie, was hand fed as a chick. She wasn't mine in the beginning, and I got her at almost 1 year of age (11 months). She is completely tame and handleable. The only problem is that she has no idea that she's a bird! She doesn't know how to play with toys and doesn't want to. She can't and won't try to fly. She basically has no idea who to be a bird. Playtime to her is sitting here with me while I read or watch TV. I try with every effort to get her to play, give her all kinds of options and she simply doesn't know what to do with it. She's now four years of age and completely the same.



This just may be Ruby personality. Toys and playing by herself just isn't her cup of tea. Has nothing to do with how she was raised as a baby.




2.]I'll pick Simon next, a TAG. He was hand fed as a chick, then stuck in a cage for the first 10 years of his life. I got him about 8 months ago and he was meaner than a snake! Now after working with him he is quite tame, although cage agressive. Anyway, he is a very independant bird and knows how to be a bird, plays with his toys and can keep his mind occupied.


Again this has nothing to do with how he was fed and raised. Being stuck in a cage for 10 years he had to learn how to entertain himself and be independent.






3]Lily, the LCA, was a wild import many years ago (before I was even born as a matter of fact) and while she is quite independent and head strong she doesn't really know how to be a bird much (she has had a very questionable history).


This one confuses me I don't understand why you think she doesn't know how to be a bird. She is being the only bird she knows how (a wild one).




4]Mork and Mindy are BFA's and they are breeders; completely confident in their birdie selves, independent and will stand up to anyone who questions them! While they aren't completely wild, they can be handled but they can also keep themselves occupied and again, know what they are.



You can't put breeders in the same category as pets. Most breeders are kept with the parents to raise and never get socialized with humans. This in my opinion makes better breeders.



There is a big difference in hand raising and feeding and hand reared.
Small hobby breeders will hand feed socialize the baby. Just a hand reared baby is more from your big breeders that set the babies up in line and pump food in them and then set them back in the brooder, no real socializing there, quantity verses quality in this case.


Hope this make since and helps. Again my own personal opinion and experience.


Donna

[MonknSharona]

Thanks so much for the reply!! It really does help. Going over the quotes you made from my post I noticed that I might have been a little confusing in my original post.

I wasn't necessarily saying that the fact that the birds were hand fed or not was the cause of their personalities. I was just trying to show that they each had their own different situations but that the hand feeding didn't seem to make a difference either way.

I just get a little confused when breeders hype birds that are "hand fed" and potential bird owners, or even current bird owners, tend to recommend only hand fed birds, when it really doesn't seem to matter as long as the bird is socialized and used to handling and is regularly handled throughout it's life, as in the case with Simon who was hand fed and then caged for so many years.

I guess when I stated that Lily doesn't seem to act like a bird, I said that wrong. Sometimes I find it difficult to spit out the words for what I'm trying to say. My greatest concern for Lily is that she is often bored and terrified of new things, old things, you name it. But she is a different story all together and that is really an entire different topic than what I am trying to get to here.

So is hand feeding really the "ultimate" in the hobby of breeding? From what I'm getting, it obviously doesn't really matter as to the eventual personality/behavior of the bird if the bird isn't continually interacted with and given the same care. Or is there any evidence that hand feeding makes for a less confident bird later in life?

I'm not for or against hand feeding at this point. I just want to learn as much as I can about it and get the different opinions on the topic. Some breeders I've met and worked with hand feed from the start, while others wait until the chicks are several weeks of age before handfeeding, and others who don't hand feed at all.

I guess everyone has their own personal preference, but ultimately, what is the best option for the well being of the bird? I realize that these will mostly be opinions, but that's what I'm looking for.

I sure hope I'm making sense in all this!

[nil]

hi
my years knowledge and experience with ringnecks and other birds seems to agree with you MonknSharona .
A bird that reared by his parents and live with other birds , has a social temperament and is indepentad, live your nature bird life.
The birds that are handleable by human and live with human developed a more human than bird temperament and arent independant at all.
they create a strong relationship with human and use human practices and subterfuges to their live and are Immediately depended from us,unable to live a bird life.

[Donna]

I didn't know if I was making any since at all my mind goes faster then my typing skills But for the most part in breeding and why some breeders hand feed and some don't is partly the money end. If the breeder takes 10 to 14 weeks to hand feed their babies and abundantly wean them properly it does make a difference in the birds personality. It's a lot of work on the breeder thus you pay more for the bird. Now there are a lot of scamming breeders out there that don't care what so ever how that baby socialized and weaned. All they care about is more birds more money. I'm not saying that that's where you get your problem birds but every rescue I have taken in I can look at the bird and tell if it was properly weaned as a baby.

Hand feeding from day one or waiting 2 weeks to pull is determined by the breeder. Some babies have to be pulled at day 1 or the parents kill the babies or refuse to feed them. It's best for the baby if it can stay in the nest box longer because parents pass good enzymes for babies immune systems just like puppies first milk from mom.

Like you said It really doesn't matter how the baby was fed but how it's treated and handled when it goes to it's new home.


Some species of birds are more adaptable then others too for instance the African greys are more cautious then your cockatoo but cockatoo's have more mental problems.




I believe it is best to get a hand fed baby verses a parent raised but I am a small hobby breeder and I enjoy raising the babies.



Donna

[Melika]

I agree that parent raised birds can be just as friendly as hand-raised birds. You just have to spend time with them as they grow up. But many breeding parents out there have bad habits we don't want our babies picking up. Like only eating grapes as their fruit/veggie, or being nippy, or particular calls that burst our eardrums.

As for hand-fed birds, the hand-feeding isn't really the part that's important. It's the socialization. It just gives the baby a head start on humans. As for playing with toys, that's something that needs to be taught. I used to play with toys with Hane and then let him play by himself with the toys. As soon as he could perch there was a toy or two in the cage with interesting textures and shapes. And for flying- it sounds like your ekkie never had the chance to fledge. It's a common mistake by breeders not to let them learn to fly and, more importantly, land.

Now, we abundance weaned our IRNs so they'll try anything we give them. But Tsume mostly destroys his food instead of eating it. We gave them toys, but Tsume approaches with caution while Hane leaps onto the toy before I'm even done attaching it to the cage. Tsume is loud and loves swings, Hane is quiet and hates swings. Tsume will bathe in the sink but Hane only by hose outside.

I think the birds just have their personality quirks. Hane and Tsume are brothers from the same clutch and they are so different the only thing they have in common is their species!