Lime?

sooty · Post by **sooty** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:04 am

I saw two lime IRN's at the pet shop...I didn't know they came in that colour. They were as lime as anything all over....beautiful.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:51 am

Sounds like they were Cinnamon's

Nice birds!

julie · Post by **julie** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:37 am

do you mean like the colour of the birds head in jeremys avatar.if so very pretty.

bonjoram · Post by **bonjoram** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:29 am

I have a Cinnamon hen. Here's a picture of her. That's a Cinnamon Turquoise Grey male landing right next to her.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:31 pm

Wow great pic, that Turquoise Cinnamon Grey looks superb.

julie · Post by **julie** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:47 am

i dont get the colours i would have thought cinnamon was like a brown colour and some of the others gets me too.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:57 am

Mutations aren't named after actual colours.
Years ago when all the mutations started to appear in Budgies, they were given names. The Cinnamon mutation acts to prevent any grey or black pigment in the bird, instead, those colours are substituted for brown pigment.

Most birds have a Green base colour, so the Cinnamon mutation will appear light green. However, birds like Galahs and Cockatiels which have a brown base colour?? produce a different colour.

sooty · Post by **sooty** » Sat May 06, 2006 7:38 pm

Sry for taking so long to get back to you. Benn in hospital with my little son

It was like the bird in the photo, tho slightly less yellow. They were stunning.

Perroquet · Post by **Perroquet** » Wed May 10, 2006 7:02 am

here is a picture of my "lime" coloured bird.
Do you think it is cinnamon as that is what i have been guessing it is.
The breeder wasn't sure himself and he breeds lots of beautiful colours like lacewings etc. Got it really cheap because he wasnt sure what it was.
It hasnt been sexed but I am pretty sure it is a cock-bird by the way it has been acting.

The parents were a Golden Olive Cock and Sky Blue hen.

Please excuse the ratty looking budgie boxes!!!

bonjoram · Post by **bonjoram** » Wed May 10, 2006 10:17 am

Nice looking birds! That's almost definitely a Cinnamon based on tail coloration and brownish flights, also since it has light colored nails and feet. It has a lighter bleached color though compared to my Cinnamons and yours contain more yellowish plummage on the chest. Did this bird already go through its moult? I've read that Cinnamons go back to their original color after their first moult.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Wed May 10, 2006 8:53 pm

That is a Cinnamon and is also Split Blue

Perroquet · Post by **Perroquet** » Thu May 11, 2006 5:07 am

Thanks for your replys. The washed out colour is perhaps due to my photos as he is probably a bit brighter than that really.

Jeremy, do you thinkhe is split blue or split pastel blue? He is about 9 months old.

Thanks,

Dani03 · Post by **Dani03** » Thu May 11, 2006 6:30 am

Perroquet...about time someone was here with an albino! Not many of us here who have one...(unless that is a creamino...)

Dani and Prinny

bonjoram · Post by **bonjoram** » Thu May 11, 2006 6:41 am

Assuming the parents are what the breeder told you they are with no other splits, then it is split to Blue and can either be male or female.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Thu May 11, 2006 9:12 pm

Because the parents aren't carrying the Turquoise (Pastel) gene then your Cinnamon is most likely not carrying it.

You can get a Split Pastelblue but you can get Split Pastel. Split Pastel can only occur in green series birds (Green, Cinnamon, Lutino, Grey Green etc)
But it is easier and less confusing if you call them by their proper name, Turquoise.

Turquoise is recessive but becomes dominant when combined with Blue. That is why you can't have Blue/Turquoise, but you can get TurquoiseBlue.

So to cut a long story short, your Cinnamon is only Split Blue

Tintin_Montreal · Post by **Tintin_Montreal** » Sat May 13, 2006 9:12 am

Hey Every Birdie,
there are a few mutations which display very similar appearances but they each have their own specific traits revealing their true genetic identity.

The genuine Cinnamon mutation ALWAYS display BROWN eyes, skin (feets), toe nails as well as both background (ground colour) & foreground eumelanin (flights &/or mantle markings in species displaying such features) The eyes of day old hatchlings are plum-red rapidly darkening to a brown colour. This is a Sex-Linked-recessive incomplete-albinistic mutation displaying a near medium (abt. 40%) even eumelanin reduction in all body tissues & structures. Distinct gene with it's distinct Cin-Locus and bares a 3% cross-over rate with regards to SL-Ino-Locus giving rise to the Cinnamon-Ino (genuine LaceWings) secondary mutation.

The genuine Pallid (aka Lime in Australia & totally erraneously called LaceWings in IRNs) displays WINE-RED eyes, pink skin, white-tipped transluscent (pink) toe nails & grey appearing foreground eumelanin (flights &/or mantle markings in species displaying such features) The eyes of day old hatchlings are red rapdily darkening to a WINE-RED colour. This is a Sex-Linked-recessive partial-albinistic (parino) mutation displaying a medium (abt. 50%) even eumelanin reduction in all body tissues & structures. Allele of the SL-Ino-Locus and so behaves Co-Dominant (Cooperative-Dominance) with regards to other SL-Ino alleles (SL-Ino, Platinum...) but always Sex-Linked-recessive with regards to any other mutations including Wild-Type. Only ever produces multiple-allelomorph specimens PallidIno, PallidPlatinum, PlatinumIno...) in COCKS whenever a Pallid specimen is mated to any SL-Ino alleles.

The genuine Platinum (innexistant so far in IRNs) displays RED eyes, pink skin, white-tipped transluscent (pink) toe nails & silver (light-grey) appearing foreground eumelanin (flights &/or mantle markings in species displaying such features) This is a Sex-Linked-recessive partial-albinistic (parino) mutation displaying a considerable (abt. 80%) even eumelanin reduction in all body tissues & structures. Allele of the SL-Ino-Locus and so behaves Co-Dominant (Cooperative-Dominance) with regards to other SL-Ino alleles (SL-Ino, Platinum...) but always Sex-Linked-recessive with regards to any other mutations including Wild-Type. Only ever produces multiple-allelomorph specimens PallidIno, PallidPlatinum, PlatinumIno...) in COCKS whenever a Platinum specimen is mated to any SL-Ino alleles.

The genuine Pastel mutation (innexistant so far in IRNs) display natural eye, skin & toe nail colour as well as silver (light-grey) appearing foreground eumelanin (flights &/or mantle markings in species displaying such features) This is an autosomal (NON-Sex-Linked) recessive incomplete-albinistic mutation displaying a medium (abt. 50%) even eumelanin reduction in all body tissues & structures. Allele of the NSL-Ino aka a-Locus and so behaves Co-Dominant (Cooperative-Dominance) with regards to other NSL-Ino alleles (BZ_Fallow, Dark-Eyed-Clear, NSL-Ino...) but always autosomal-recessive with regards to any other mutations including Wild-Type. Produces multiple-allelomorph specimens PastelIno PastelDEC, PastelBZ_Fallow...) in BOTH genders whenever a Pastel specimen is mated to any NSL-Ino alleles.

Fallow mutations display RED eyes, PINK skin & white-tipped transluscent (PINK) toe nail colour as well as either pale-brown (Beige_Fallow), brown (Bronze_Fallow), grey-brown (Dun_Fallow) or grey (Ashen_Fallow) appearing foreground eumelanin (flights &/or mantle markings in species displaying such features) These are all autosomal (NON-Sex-Linked) recessive incomplete-albinistic mutations displaying a complete eumelanin reduction in all body structures & tissues EXCEPT ONLY in feathering where the reduction is medium (abt. 50%) So far, only the Bronze_Fallow has proven to bare a multilple-allelic relationship with the NSL aka a-Locus alleles.

...

So to answer your question briefly ; because your green series IRNs displays a BROWNISH WASH covering it's PALER GREEN colouration (compared to Wild-Type), BROWN SKIN (feets) and I presume BROWN EYES ; then it must be a Green Cinnamon specimen.

Finaly ; it's father being commonly described as a Golden-Olive (total misnomer) most probably is a Cinnamon GreyGreen specimen. And because his mother is a Cinnamon Blue (commonly called SkyBlue) ; your Green Cinnamon IRN is guarantied Split/Blue and can be either male or female. He/she would need DNA sexing if you should ever wanna know it's gender with absolute accuracy before it reaches it's full sexual-maturity in 2 or 3 years from now. Always keep in mind that although most will between 18 to 24 months of age, male IRNs can take up to a full 3 years of age before they ever start displaying feathers of their neck rings &/or nape bands.

Neokireina · Post by **Neokireina** » Tue May 16, 2006 7:55 am

Yeah I loved having to learn the right names AND the wrong names for all the colours. I thought Golden Olive was a Fallow Cinnamon Greygreen bird.
er fallow of course meaning dominant edged.. /roll

I have a Fallow Cinnamon Greygreen/blue Hen and a Fallow Blue/cinn Cock

cant wait to see how they do this year. had a bunch of infertile eggs last year. he's only 2 years old tho. :/

My creamino hasnt coloured up fully yet still. she's got bright yellow parts and sorta.. creamy yellow bits.. but she still looks white in the light

Tintin_Montreal · Post by **Tintin_Montreal** » Tue May 16, 2006 9:16 am

Neokireina wrote:Yeah I loved having to learn the right names AND the wrong names for all the colours. I thought Golden Olive was a Fallow Cinnamon Greygreen bird. er fallow of course meaning dominant dilute.. /roll

Hey Neokireina & Every Birdie,
I must admit that it actually is quite practical to know the true genetics names & terms and their common &/or erraneous equivalent.

This way one is able to tell other people what mutations their Parrots truely are, how the mutations are truely inherited & then able predict any genetic outcome with accurate precision. The latter being quite often impossible &/or leading to innaccurate outcomes whenever using misnomers &/or erraneous names because often times these common names are not associated with their true genetic inheritance.

i.e. Fallow mutations ALWAYS (throughout species) inherit autosomal (NON-Sex-Linked aka NSL) recessive while Dominant-Edged inherits autosomal-Complete-Dominant.

The reality is that using common & more so erraneous names & terms only adds to the global confusion existing in the Parrot world of genetics of mutations. Thankfully, the evolution towards using true genetic names & terms has begun and we are hopefull than in a decade or two ; every mutation hobbyists will be using the true genetic nomenclature. It just takes time for it to sink in ;-)

Neokireina wrote:I have a Fallow Cinnamon Greygreen/blue Hen and a Fallow Blue/cinn Cock cant wait to see how they do this year. had a bunch of infertile eggs last year. he's only 2 years old tho. :/

Back to your IRNs ; it is very hard to genetically identify them precisely as Golden Olive is a common variety name and so with no precise genotype (genetic make-up)

One thing is absolutely sure ;

IF a wheaned &/or mature Parrot does not display complete-albinistic features in all soft tissues (RED eyes, PINK feets/skin, CLEAR toe nails...) BUT with medium (abt. 50% eumelanin) EVEN reduction in ONLY the plumage ; it cannot be a true Fallow mutation (whatever the species) Foreground eumelanin wich is always noticeable in flight feathers throughtout Parrot species APPEAR either pale-brown (Beige_Fallow), brown (Bronze_Fallow), grey-brown (Dun_Fallow) &/or grey (Ashen_Fallow) but is in natural black state under microscope.

Dominant-Edged though is a mutation for which I do not have much knowledge or valuable infos. If I'm not mistaking though ; with regards to Dominant-Edged ; eumelanin is diluted (reduced in quantity) in ONLY plumage and where the center of EACH body & wing covert feathers displays a medium (abt. 40-50%) eumelanin dilution. Flights are practically unaltered and so appear of the colour associated with equivalent green &/or blue series specimens. All other structures & tissues (beak, eyes, feets/skin...) are unaffected and are of natural colouration and this I know for sure.

So the natural coloured structures & tissues combined to the Dominant inheritance will always negate any possible Fallow gene involved.

As mentionned in a previous reply ; The genuine Cinnamon mutation ALWAYS display BROWN eyes, skin (feets), toe nails as well as both background (ground colour) & foreground eumelanin (flights &/or mantle markings in species displaying such features) The eyes of day old hatchlings are plum-red rapidly darkening to a brown colour. This is a Sex-Linked-recessive incomplete-albinistic mutation displaying a near medium (abt. 40%) even eumelanin reduction in all body tissues & structures. Distinct gene with it's distinct Cin-Locus and bares a 3% cross-over rate with regards to SL-Ino-Locus giving rise to the Cinnamon-Ino (genuine LaceWings) secondary mutation.

The Cinnamon mutation is the ONLY known mutations so far which has been provened to truely alter eumelanin in quality in a phenomenon known as partial-oxydization. Eumelanin is black when naturally completely-oxydized. With regards to the Cinnamon gene though eumelanin is stopped in it's oxydization at the BROWN stage of it's evolution to becoming black. So with regards to the genuine Cinnamon mutation ; eumelanin not only ALWAYS appears but it's ALWAYS truely (under microscope) BROWN.

And although the Budgie's extremelly rare genuine brown-wing (autosomal aka NSL recessive) incomplete-albinistic mutation is under investigation for possibly also altering eumelanin in quality ; No other known mutation have been yet provened to alter eumelanin in quality such as the Cinnamon and not even very similar mutations such as Fallows, Pallid, genuine Pastel, Platinum... In all of other mutations ; eumelanin is only ever ALWAYS diluted (reduced in quantity) and although appearing either pale-brown, brown, grey-brown &/or grey is truely ALWAYS black under microscope.

This unique & significant feature of the Cinnamon is the best reason for it to NEVER be combined to other similar mutations such as Fallows, Pallid, genuine Pastel, Platinum...

Neokireina wrote:My creamino hasnt coloured up fully yet still. she's got bright yellow parts and sorta.. creamy yellow bits.. but she still looks white in the light

Being that your ParBlue-Ino (Cream-Ino) is basically of the uneven yellowish-white (more white than yellow) rather than the whitish-yellow (more yellow than white) ; I would presume that she is a genuine Turquoise-Ino (bl*tq/bl*tq Zino W) and so pure/stable secondary mutation (combined primary mutations which breeds true when mated to exact same) More reliable clues to her precise genotype though would be provided by knowing her parent's phenotypes &/or genotypes ? And/or by resulting outcomes of her mating with blue series cock(s) ???

Neokireina · Post by **Neokireina** » Tue May 16, 2006 6:20 pm

Her mother was Creamino and her father is a Blue/Ino.

here's a photo of them http://www.adelaidebirdclub.com/gallery03/dcp1836.jpg

Also of my Golden Olive hen /sigh Dominant Edged Cinnamon Greygreen / blue is just so freaking long to write. When she was paired with a blue cock last year. http://www.adelaidebirdclub.com/bb/gob.jpg

I cant wait to see what they breed this year because there are SOOOO many combinations with the Golden olive and the Blue/cinn and they are both Dominant Edged.

Tintin_Montreal · Post by **Tintin_Montreal** » Tue May 16, 2006 9:32 pm

Neokireina wrote:Her mother was Creamino and her father is a Blue/Ino. here's a photo of them http://www.adelaidebirdclub.com/gallery03/dcp1836.jpg

Hey again Neokireina & Every Birdie,
we need to know wether your Parblue Ino (Creamino) hen displays a more yellow colouration than her mother ???

And also could you let us know wether her parents ever produce any BlueIno (Albino) &/or Blue offspring(s) ???

If so ; then her mother is guarantied being a TurquoiseBlue Ino (unstable Creamino variety) and being paired up to a Blue Split/ Ino cock would produce ;

SONS :
¼ Blue Split/Ino
¼ TurquoiseBlue Split/Ino
¼ Blue Ino (Albino)
¼ TurquoiseBlue Ino (unstable Creamino variety)

DAUGHTERS :
¼ Blue
¼ TurquoiseBlue
¼ Blue Ino (Albino)
¼ TurquoiseBlue Ino (unstable Creamino variety)

If not ; then her mother is guarantied being a Turquoise Ino (stable Creamino secondary mutation) and being paired up to a Blue Split/ Ino cock would produce ;

SONS :
½ TurquoiseBlue Split/Ino
½ TurquoiseBlue Ino (unstable Creamino variety)

DAUGHTERS :
½ TurquoiseBlue
½ TurquoiseBlue Ino (unstable Creamino variety)

If I'm not mistaking ; Turquoise Ino (stable Creamino secondary mutation) specimens display a colouration which is yellowish-white (more white than yellow) while TurquoiseBlue Ino specimen display a whitish-yellow (more yellow than white) colouration ???

IndianRingNeck.com

Lime?

Lime?

The Cinnamon mutation versus other very similar mutations