New member and a decision to bite me!!

[Ringoandme]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for a wonderful site! Been an awesome source of info. Meet Ringo, I've had him for about 5 months and I was told he was only around 4 months when I got him. He was hand reared but not overly tame. Only took a couple of days and he seemed very happy and ok with sitting on my finger and a bit of attention.

Within a few weeks we were best buddies although not very keen on my wife's attention! He tends to hide behind me when she come close, but it's getting better. I read that they tend to bond closer with one person in particular. He is now very tame and rules the house, loves my attention, scratches and especially loves jumping in the shower. He is very comfortable with my touch, including lifting his wings, feet, chest and even covering his eyes.

So...... Randomly tonight I come home and go to let him out of the cage and he starts snapping at me! He actually had a go at biting so I closed the door and covered the cage. Went back 5 mins later and the same thing when I put my hand close, this time he latched on and sank the beak in, drew blood!. I covered the cage again and same thing went back a few mins later, same thing again! I left him again but this time when I went back I opened the cage and walked away. He flew straight over to my shoulder and started wolf whistling and blowing kisses (something he has learnt).

I went to put him on his swing which he sits on when we are home, but wanted to stay on my shoulder. Couldn't even convince him to come off my shoulder with a whole strawberry!! So he sat there for about 90mins before I put him back on the cage as I needed to serve dinner. I went to take him our after and same thing, started snapping.

Up until today he has been very calm and affectionate and never even considered biting. Loves cuddles etc etc.

Any advice?

Thanks again for the great forum!

Marc (and Ringo)

[Ringoandme]

I have done some research and it would seem this is the bluffing stage. Have some deep wounds for this bluffing! He is very aggressive this evening, almost falling out of the cage trying to reach out far enough to bite me! And bite me he did! After some research, being calm and ignoring the behaviour seems to favourable. So I have continued as normal and tried to ignore the behaviour. Gave him a grape as a treat before and after head butting the grape a couple of times trying to get past it to bite me he realised it was yummy food and took it . Interestingly I left the door open and with 30 seconds he flew over to me and we had scratches and little whistles etc. then.....snap..

Looks like a test of patience. I'm up for it, I'll kill him with kindness . We'll see how my hands hold up!

Trying to load a pic, I'll see how I go this time....

File size too big, can't resize on iPad

[Donovan]

Sounds like you're on the right track for sure. Just don't accidentally reward the biting.
Main thing is that he learns he can't get his way from biting and also that you don't give him any reason to bite. My bird will bite on occasion but it's usually more of a touch than a bite. It's not so much aggression as it is him saying no thanks.

[Ringoandme]

Ok, got it this time. Meet Ringo

[Donovan]

Good looking bird. ... love the name

[InTheAir]

Hey,
Congrats on your bird.
It sounds like you are only experiencing this biting when he's in his cage, right?

[Ringoandme]

Not only from the cage, I let out of the cage this morning and he is acting the same on his 'run' it's a 3m rope with a swing on the end. Freaking me out this morning, it really is behind a nip, he is incredibly aggressive and not just nipping. I took the brave approach of ignoring the behaviour and figured I could handle a nip two but he is following through with the snapping! He is sinking his beak in and not letting go.

I kept my hand up to him for a little bit and kept asking him to step up, he just kept snapping away and biting. As soon as I walk away he does a little wolf whistle? Not sure weather that's a 'sorry' or a 'haha'??

Not sure what to do now, not sure I can take too many more puncture wounds!

What do you think about putting on a glove and letting him have his way?

[InTheAir]

I take the opposite approach, if my birds don't want to step up I let them be. They mostly want to step up, but when they don't they just ignore me. If I persist they will fluff up, growl and eventually nip at me. They would probably bite hard if I ignored that. I'm not willing to try that experiment.
My interpretation of that situation is:
You: step up
Ringo: I don't feel like it right now.
You: step up
Ringo: I said I didn't want to. Why aren't you listening to me? I warned you.
You: step up
Ringo: what part of no don't you understand? *chomp chomp*

Admittedly, irns are much quicker than us, so Ringo said his entire piece a lot quicker than that.
Don't use gloves!
Check out the articles on http://www.behaviorworks.org

[Donovan]

yes I have learned to not be bitten by my bird by simply acknowledging his mood. He has moods where he wants to be talked to but not touched. And by touch I mean he lets me put the tip of my index finger against the tip of his beak and it's more like a mutual acknowledging thing.

the only exception to him biting me is that if he sees me with my cell phone he'll sometimes land on my hand and bite the mess out of me through no fault of my own. and sometimes if i'm playing bird videos for him on youtube he will attack my hand if i'm holding the mouse. So i suppose it's a possessive thing. Probably thinks one of those birds is his girlfriend. He's seen the same videos on my phone so I suspect that's where the problem is. He thinks certain things belong to him.
I got a new phone recently and gave him my old one. I start up youtube for him and he enjoys making it stop and go by walking around on the screen and making loud noises.... then he takes the phone apart and i stop him there because i don't want him chewing up the battery.

Anyway... aside from them just deciding out of the blue to bite you.. they will give subtle warnings.. like a hard peck with the beak along with certain body language. When i get those I pretty much just change my approach at that point or change the subject.

There's little reason to be bitten. If you're doing something to the bird in an attempt to interact.. you might get bitten. If you learn to communicate and accept what they might be trying to tell you then there is little to worry about.

[MissK]

Personally, I love it when Rocky starts getting possessive of a certain toy. I think it's so cute, and it shows he really likes something I gave him. I don't really let him get away with it, but I do think it's really cute.....

The flip side of this is the toy might be a possible reward or handy distraction. For us it goes along the line of "Rocky? No treats? You really don't want this treat? Well, what would you say to....... MR. FROGGY!!!! -Hahaha, yes, I *thought* you would see that differently."

[Donovan]

MissK i'm learning lately that toys make great rewards... mr bell has been showing less interest in performing for peanuts than just sitting there with a foot toy.

[Ringoandme]

Thanks for all the comments. My main concern was the aggression level. I don't even ask for him to step up, just walking towards you can see he him getting ready for the attack.

I did have a little success this evening when I got home. It was the same thing, he starting snapping before I even approached (normally when I get home he is swaying furiously for my attention). I put a glove on and asked him to step up, I think he was a bit thrown off by the glove so tried a couple of bites and then gave up and stepped up . Couple of scratches and he has settled a bit. I left him alone as not to push him too much.

I'll update again shortly

[Donovan]

Work on getting him to want to step up by handing him a treat and positioning it so he has to step up to get it.
Don't make him step up. He has to think it was his idea. Otherwise he's just helpless and given up.

[MissK]

Ringoandme,

Have you analyzed everything that's happening at the time immediately preceding his decision to attack? Did you inadvertently make some error in the past when approaching him? Is it just a territory thing?

[Ringoandme]

'Update'

THE DEVIL HAS TAKEN OVER MY BIRD!

That's the only rational explanation!

We have now gone from snapping to attacking. I cannot believe how totally crazy he has gone. I have been super patient and trying not to annoy him or press him to calm down. I fed him a couple of seeds through the side of the cage ( the front was open). He stepped out onto the door, pretended to take the seed and then LUNGED out and sunk the beak in......deep! I walked away and then he started all the cute whistling?

I haven't changed any routine or food, nothing I can think has changed. It's a 100% complete turn around.

He has been completely happy, social, steps up, flies to you on command, flies to to you when wants scratches. For the most of the time he has been happier on my shoulder or in my hands. He even rides on my shoulder when I am on the farm on the quad bike, no harness.

Sooooo not sure what is going on?

[MissK]

He can fly and you take him outside without any restraint? Come here and I'll bite you, myself. Don't do that. You *will* lose him.

[Ringoandme]

He can fly and you take him outside without any restraint? Come here and I'll bite you, myself. Don't do that. You *will* lose him.

Thanks, very helpful with what's going on...NOT

[Ringoandme]

To be clear, I'm trying to explain that our relationship has been exceptional. I am confident that Ringo has been very happy with his environment, hence why I have had him out unrestrained. He has never been interested in flying away. In fact out on the farm he found his way out of the shed and flew straight to me in the paddock. He has left my shoulder once and flew high up into a tree. After he ate a few seeds I called for him and flew straight to me. I'm simply trying to explain the closeness of our bond.

[Donovan]

I personally wouldn't take my bird outside like that but lots of people do. If he ever decides that he wants to go on an adventure be sure he has something outside that he's familiar with to return to.

My bird spends lots of time in my backyard in a large walk-in cage so I suspect I could get him back if he flew out the door. I'm guessing that if he didn't go very far that he would just return to the big cage on his own.

[InTheAir]

So...Don't use gloves, don't force your parrot to do things, read these links:

http://www.behaviorworks.org/files/arti ... 20Know.pdf

http://www.behaviorworks.org/files/arti ... 202002.pdf

[Ringoandme]

Bit of an update. It is now looking like it is territorial. It had actually got a lot worse. Even looking over to him at the cage he starts getting aggressive and attacks the cage. He is not coming out any more. Normally when you open the cage he comes straight out and runs across his rope and sits on his swing or on top of the cage. Now he stays in the cage. If he does come out and you walk over he races in the cage and gets ready to attack.

Once I take the pain and take him away and sit in the lounge he happily relaxes and takes all the scratches in the world. Put him back in the cage and the devil is back!

[Donovan]

get a new cage or significantly rearrange the current cage... and of course change its location...

[AJPeter]

Is the cage against the wall? Can you post pictures of its location?

The fact that your bird has tasted the great out doors may be the problem when you bring him indoors, start to retrain him, sit by the cage with door closed and then again with door open, slowly gain his confidence. Avoid waving you hands around they do not like sudden movement and l am with InTheAir about wearing gloves you will never gain his love because when you take them off he will think you are a stranger and attack.

My hen will step up if she wants to mostly she steps down, if l have to move her she gets the spare perch under her tummy she does not like but will sit on it while l move her, perhaps this could be your answer too, a spare perch or T bar.

[Ringoandme]

He has only been outside a couple of times so I don't think that is the issue. I did a huge change around in the cage but didn't think to move it so will try a new layout and then change location.