Difference between violet and cobalt-violet?

Recio · Post by **Recio** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:42 am

I have a violet hen from a violet male and a cobalt hen. How could I know if she is just violet or violet-cobalt (in fact blue-violet or blue-violet-dark factor)? Somebody told me about the darkness of the inside part of the wings, but

...

Thanks in advance

julie · Post by **julie** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:27 am

until someone comes along that can help you check out some of these threads

This thread here is titled the same as yours.
http://indianringneck.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=6246

http://indianringneck.com/board/viewtop ... ght=cobalt

Recio · Post by **Recio** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 12:46 pm

Thank you Julie
I had read those posts many times, but the question seems always open, since no one says what to look for to make the difference between both birds. They post pictures saying they are differents but I begin to think I have a serious problem of colour vision (for me they are the same). Someones say they are different, for others they are the same colour. Indeed there are the european cobalt, the american, saphires, ... and the different shades of blue...
I was told that the inside part of the wing feathers would be much darker in the cobalt-violet than in the normal violet. I do not know, no one writes about this item.
May be finally we should accept the fact that they are not really differents and only the outcome, when I will pair my hen with a blue bird, will tell me her genetics.

Cheers

Recio · Post by **Recio** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:43 pm

Hi everybody;

I have just got a new info about making the difference between violet (blue-violet) and cobalt violet (dark-blue-violet) IRN: cobalt violet would display a violet tail and violet IRN would show a blue tail.

Can anyone confirm it?

madas · Post by **madas** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:18 am

Recio wrote:Hi everybody;

I have just got a new info about making the difference between violet (blue-violet) and cobalt violet (dark-blue-violet) IRN: cobalt violet would display a violet tail and violet IRN would show a blue tail.

Can anyone confirm it?

It depends on your definition of violet or blue.

for a violet bird: If your blue means the blue of a blue irn then your are wrong. if you mean a normal blue of our daily life (not from a blue irn) then your right.
for a cobalt violet bird: if your violet means the violet of a violet irn then your wrong. if you mean the violet from daily life then your right.

greetings

Recio · Post by **Recio** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:05 am

madas wrote:
Recio wrote:Hi everybody;

I have just got a new info about making the difference between violet (blue-violet) and cobalt violet (dark-blue-violet) IRN: cobalt violet would display a violet tail and violet IRN would show a blue tail.

Can anyone confirm it?
It depends on your definition of violet or blue. for a violet bird: If your blue means the blue of a blue irn then your are wrong. if you mean a normal blue of our daily life (not from a blue irn) then your right.
for a cobalt violet bird: if your violet means the violet of a violet irn then your wrong. if you mean the violet from daily life then your right.

greetings

Hi Madas

He was meaning "normal life" colours. Anyway I will take my hen to visit this french breeder and to compare "in situ" its colour versus his violet and cobalt-violets IRN

madas · Post by **madas** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:12 am

Recio wrote:
madas wrote:
Recio wrote:Hi everybody;

I have just got a new info about making the difference between violet (blue-violet) and cobalt violet (dark-blue-violet) IRN: cobalt violet would display a violet tail and violet IRN would show a blue tail.

Can anyone confirm it?
It depends on your definition of violet or blue. for a violet bird: If your blue means the blue of a blue irn then your are wrong. if you mean a normal blue of our daily life (not from a blue irn) then your right.
for a cobalt violet bird: if your violet means the violet of a violet irn then your wrong. if you mean the violet from daily life then your right.

greetings
Hi Madas

He was meaning "normal life" colours. Anyway I will take my hen to visit this french breeder and to compare "in situ" its colour versus his violet and cobalt-violets IRN

Ok. But don't forget to take photographs and post them.

Recio · Post by **Recio** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:44 am

madas wrote:Ok. But don't forget to take photographs and post them.

Hi Madas;
Yesterday I went to visit this french breeder. He had 3 violet hens:
1 : SF violet
2 : Cobalt violet
3 : Violet, possible DF (25% probabilities car coming from a couple of SF violets)

What he saw: 2 was "more" violet than 1 or 3, which were same colour.
What I saw: 2 and 3 almost same colour, and 1 more clear.
It was a cloudy rainy day and birds were at 3 meters, so may be the iridiscence was not very evident. On the other hand we both are around 50 and our cones may be in failure. We should check another sunny day.

Cheers

Recio · Post by **Recio** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:02 am

saud wrote:Jay / Recio

Is it possible that SF and DF violets are actually visually quite different but it is the dark factor in Cobalt SF violets that is making this distinction more difficult?
I am sure that the dark factor adds more complexity to make the difference between SF and DF violets, as I have just answered to Madas. But dark factor is always a difficult mutation to find and breeders know if they have or not D in theirs birds. Actually in France dark factor is more expensive than other newer mutations as violet, despite that they are both dominants, and the % expression in ofspring is the same.

May be some violets lines with some breeders have the dark factor in them and this clouds the distinction between SF and DF violets?
I do not think so by the reasons above and because usually SF violets are paired to blues to obtain more violets. If aparent violets were cobalt violets breeders would also obtain cobalts in the ofspring, and so they would have been aware of the dark factor in their violets.

I don't have any experience in breeding violets so this is just a beginners question.

I am also a beginner who has just one violet female which will reproduce for the first time next year (I cross my fingers) with a turquoise male.
When you have a little flock is always very appreciated the knowledge of experienced breeders.

Cheers

Razsringnecks · Post by **Razsringnecks** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:57 pm

In the violet ringneck the shades of violet can vary considerably.
It is difficult to show in pics...take note to light. Pics can also be altered.
This is a pic of a SF violet and a DF violet...That I bred last season.
Notice the darker tail...and head...a Df violet looks like a dusty or dirty violet if you like to say. It is much deeper purple in color...to the sf violet. The flights are aslo much darker.

As for the cobalt violet...they are very simular looking to the Df violet.
Dark in the tail and also the flights.

Recio · Post by **Recio** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:33 pm

Razsringnecks wrote:In the violet ringneck the shades of violet can vary considerably.
It is difficult to show in pics...take note to light. Pics can also be altered.
This is a pic of a SF violet and a DF violet...That I bred last season.
Notice the darker tail...and head...a Df violet looks like a dusty or dirty violet if you like to say. It is much deeper purple in color...to the sf violet. The flights are aslo much darker.

As for the cobalt violet...they are very simular looking to the Df violet.
Dark in the tail and also the flights.

Hi, Razsringnecks
So my cones are not so bad, because that is what I saw: cobalt violet near the same than DF violet