Deep and Emerald
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- Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa
Re: Deep and Emerald
Thanks Madas. Thats interesting to know. Did the birds grow up together though or were they introduced at a later age? I can't imagine it being successful for every breeder though.
Re: Deep and Emerald
I think that is a DEC pastel fischer lovebird, but I could also be very wrong.
Re: Deep and Emerald
Not bad. Was bought as PastelIno.Johan S wrote:I think that is a DEC pastel fischer lovebird, but I could also be very wrong.
madas
Re: Deep and Emerald
Homozygous bird first before making conclusions!Hi Madas,
If this "saddle" pattern is inherited from parents to offspring in a predictible way it should be considered as a different allele in the parblue group. Do you have any pic of an homozygous bird, young and adult, to verify the psittacin evolution with aging?
Recio
Re: Deep and Emerald
I agree ...trabots wrote:Homozygous bird first before making conclusions!Hi Madas,
If this "saddle" pattern is inherited from parents to offspring in a predictible way it should be considered as a different allele in the parblue group. Do you have any pic of an homozygous bird, young and adult, to verify the psittacin evolution with aging?
Recio
Recio
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- Posts: 45
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Re: Deep and Emerald
Madas
Could your bird be a SF Khaki Parblue?
Deon
Could your bird be a SF Khaki Parblue?
Deon
Re: Deep and Emerald
Really?Deon Smith wrote:Madas
Could your bird be a SF Khaki Parblue?
Deon
Misty + ParBlue = "aqua" looking phenotype. Interesting isn't it?
madas
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Re: Deep and Emerald
My idea of a Khaki TurqBlue comes from life itself.
I'll get an image tomorrow.
Deon
I'll get an image tomorrow.
Deon
Re: Deep and Emerald
Here is a pic of Deon showing a Khaki or Misty (not clear if both are the same) TurqBlue:Deon Smith wrote:My idea of a Khaki TurqBlue comes from life itself.
I'll get an image tomorrow.
Deon
madas
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Re: Deep and Emerald
This specific picture was taken from the Web.
Deon
Deon
Re: Deep and Emerald
Hi Deon,Deon Smith wrote:This specific picture was taken from the Web.
Deon
can you send me the link via PM.
thx.
madas
Edit: I found it. ;)
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Re: Deep and Emerald
Lee said:
We must see the colour effects in another dimension. My impression in shade is of a milky overlay, giving it an aqua-like appearance.
I cannot post images yet and have asked Madas to do that job.
Deon
I don't think we can describe this mutation in conventional terms of paleness or darkness, as iridescence enters, as I have wrapped up in my book; probably due to structural change in the cortex.Deon based on Madas statement that the ground color is "a step" darker your suggestion appears contradictory.
my experience with misty is that this mutation lightens green and blue
We must see the colour effects in another dimension. My impression in shade is of a milky overlay, giving it an aqua-like appearance.
I cannot post images yet and have asked Madas to do that job.
Deon
Re: Deep and Emerald
Here they come:Deon Smith wrote: I cannot post images yet and have asked Madas to do that job.
madas
Re: Deep and Emerald
And now the parents of the bird in question:
Father???
Mother???
Father???
Mother???
Re: Deep and Emerald
Not bad, not bad my friend. The mother should carry the cinnamon gen as well.molossus wrote:Father : Violet green/turq
Mother : Misty grey in dom edge.
the Mistys do look lighter to me.
But it hard to tell if grey or blue (for my eyes there is a very light bluish shine at the upper feet region and parts of the tail)
because the misty gen is adding a greyish overlay to the body color.
madas
Re: Deep and Emerald
Means EF and DF or what?molossus wrote: the problem with Misty in blue is that there are two different expressions of the mutant in the blue gene...viz one a washed blue and the other a ash grey.
Re: Deep and Emerald
Can you provide some pics? Possible in a new thread?molossus wrote:not sure exactly . Not enough info available. I have seen both phenotypes but the breeders didnt work long enough to confirm SF or DF.
Re: Deep and Emerald
Could the uniform (in colour) Emerald be a green series bird, and the patched version be a Blue series bird? or has this been disproven?
sorry if I'm thinking out of line here
sorry if I'm thinking out of line here
Re: Deep and Emerald
I posed this before. A Violet 'Emerald' does not have the even colour distribution that the Deep 'Emerald' or 'Emerald' has. Why is this? It fluoresces under UV just like the others do. What about Cobalt 'Emerald'. The patched 'Emerald' however does not flouresce. Also the Violet sibling which showed psitticin long after fledging now looks just like its sister Violet 'Emerald'. The former does not flouresce unlike the latter. Until the inheritance is proven I think it prudent to call them 'Emeralds' for now.Chocobo wrote:Could the uniform (in colour) Emerald be a green series bird, and the patched version be a Blue series bird? or has this been disproven?
sorry if I'm thinking out of line here
patched 'Emerald', Deep 'Emerald'
[img]http://i1305.photobucket.com/album ... .jpg[/img]
patched Violet 'Emerald'
[img]http://i1305.photobucket.com/album ... .jpg[/img]
Violet 'Emerald'
[img]http://i1305.photobucket.com/album ... .jpg[/img]
Re: Deep and Emerald
The patched 'Emerald' however does not flouresce. Also the Violet sibling which showed psitticin long after fledging now looks just like its sister Violet 'Emerald'. The former does not flouresce unlike the latter.
Willy, The first thing we should do is to UV check emeralds as soon as they fledge.
It would be interesting to see if we can early detect the non v flourecent emeralds, even before patches show.
What next?
Is this bulb ok in your opinion for UV testing? or do you recommend something else?
I have bought a few of these.
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/edge/uvla.jpg
Re: Deep and Emerald
Hi Willy,
Have you perhaps got better photos of the "patched 'Emerald', Deep 'Emerald' please.
thanks,
Peter
Have you perhaps got better photos of the "patched 'Emerald', Deep 'Emerald' please.
thanks,
Peter
Re: Deep and Emerald
All I have
patched 'Emerald'
[img]http://i1305.photobucket.com/album ... .jpg[/img]
Deep 'Emerald'
[img]http://i1305.photobucket.com/album ... .jpg[/img]
patched 'Emerald'
[img]http://i1305.photobucket.com/album ... .jpg[/img]
Deep 'Emerald'
[img]http://i1305.photobucket.com/album ... .jpg[/img]
Re: Deep and Emerald
thanks you Sir !
Re: Deep and Emerald
Why does the bird show a light head color and light feeds? Out of a cinnamon line?trabots wrote: Violet 'Emerald'
madas
Re: Deep and Emerald
Hi Willy- do you have any info on the dad of the 'patchy violet'
am thinking out loud...
Was thinking perhaps he was a green series split TurquoiseBlue - may explain the patches on the violet, and also his uniform colour... also how the violet doesn't look straight 'violet' (discounting the patches) like there is another modifier altering her colour..
Emerald Green- uniform altered green
Emerald Blue- uniform altered blue
Emerald Turqblue altered blue with Green patches???
actually scrap all of that---- I'm sure this is wrong as a Turqblue bird will show the wildtype/relative colour in the 'green' patches (what the bird would look like if it were a green series)- I wonder if the Emerald Green bird looks just about like a Wildtype Green hmm....
could there be such a thing as recessive Parblue?
am thinking out loud...
Was thinking perhaps he was a green series split TurquoiseBlue - may explain the patches on the violet, and also his uniform colour... also how the violet doesn't look straight 'violet' (discounting the patches) like there is another modifier altering her colour..
Emerald Green- uniform altered green
Emerald Blue- uniform altered blue
Emerald Turqblue altered blue with Green patches???
actually scrap all of that---- I'm sure this is wrong as a Turqblue bird will show the wildtype/relative colour in the 'green' patches (what the bird would look like if it were a green series)- I wonder if the Emerald Green bird looks just about like a Wildtype Green hmm....
could there be such a thing as recessive Parblue?
Re: Deep and Emerald
There is no Cinnamon in this bird or the parents. The violet colouration would have been diluted as in a Lavendermadas wrote:Why does the bird show a light head color and light feeds? Out of a cinnamon line?trabots wrote: Violet 'Emerald'
madas
Re: Deep and Emerald
I have checked with the breeders of the 'Emerald' father of all of the 'Emeralds' I have posted including the 'patched Emeralds' and neither parent of that bird was a TurquoiseBlue. The 'patched Emeralds' are not at this stage the same colour as a TurquoiseBlue nor IndigoBlue.Hi Willy- do you have any info on the dad of the 'patchy violet'
'Emerald', 'patched Emerald'
[img]http://i1305.photobucket.com/album ... .jpg[/img]
Re: Deep and Emerald
VERY INTERESTING
The patches on the "'patched Emerald' show up as green under the filters
The patches on the "'patched Emerald' show up as green under the filters
Re: Deep and Emerald
Hi Willy,
About the "patchy Emeralds" : Are the patches increasing in size or intensity with the time passing? Are they also appearing in other areas (saddle, head, ...)? Have you noticed any difference in patching evolution between males and females?
Regards
Recio
About the "patchy Emeralds" : Are the patches increasing in size or intensity with the time passing? Are they also appearing in other areas (saddle, head, ...)? Have you noticed any difference in patching evolution between males and females?
Regards
Recio
Re: Deep and Emerald
Recio, I only have the 2 'patched Emeralds' 2012 cock and hen siblings, no difference yet noticed. I also have a 2011 Violet 'patched Emerald' sibling. The latter has expanded its pscitticin to the point I have a hard time telling it apart from a true Violet 'Emerald' yet it is different than my Violet IndigoBlue or Deep Violet TurquoiseBlue. My aviary situation is that I flock all my IRNs in a very large flight so hard to inspect the birds of interest without going in and catching. I do plan to catch these up with some other Parblues and take pics sometime soon. Watch this space.Recio wrote:Hi Willy,
About the "patchy Emeralds" : Are the patches increasing in size or intensity with the time passing? Are they also appearing in other areas (saddle, head, ...)? Have you noticed any difference in patching evolution between males and females?
Regards
Recio
Re: Deep and Emerald
Hi everybody,
In Deon's book I can see that the primary flying wing feathers of Emeralds seem not to be fluorescents under uv? Could anyone of you confirm? ... or is it just a question of lighting intensity? .... I am meaning: is fluorescence distribution the same in normals (or in lutinos) versus emeralds or is it different? Is it only a question of hue/saturation/brightness of the reflected ligth or the distribution on the bird feathers/inside a feather is different?
Regards
Recio
In Deon's book I can see that the primary flying wing feathers of Emeralds seem not to be fluorescents under uv? Could anyone of you confirm? ... or is it just a question of lighting intensity? .... I am meaning: is fluorescence distribution the same in normals (or in lutinos) versus emeralds or is it different? Is it only a question of hue/saturation/brightness of the reflected ligth or the distribution on the bird feathers/inside a feather is different?
Regards
Recio
Re: Deep and Emerald
Recio, in a picture Deon posted to the mailing list some time ago, some fluorescence does seem to exist in the primary flights of the heterozygous emerald, but not for the ino and turquoise in the same pic. Not sure if I'm allowed to post the pic, though.
Re: Deep and Emerald
Hi Johan,
That was my belief also ... but the pic in Deon's book shows that the primary flying feathers are not fluorescent in Emeralds, just like in wild or lutino birds. Deon used a wide broad uv spectrum with a high intensity in order to get enough fluorescent intensity to take the pics ... so it is strange that, in these conditions, we can not see any fluorescence in the primary wing feathers (every condition has been enhanced to detect it in the pic).
My deep thougth : could the different fluorescence quality in Emeralds be due to a change in feather structure always keeping the same type of fluorescent psittacin than in wild birds? If the distribution of both fluorescence types is the same it would add consistency to this idea. If the distribution is not the same we should think of different psittacin types.
Regards
Recio
That was my belief also ... but the pic in Deon's book shows that the primary flying feathers are not fluorescent in Emeralds, just like in wild or lutino birds. Deon used a wide broad uv spectrum with a high intensity in order to get enough fluorescent intensity to take the pics ... so it is strange that, in these conditions, we can not see any fluorescence in the primary wing feathers (every condition has been enhanced to detect it in the pic).
My deep thougth : could the different fluorescence quality in Emeralds be due to a change in feather structure always keeping the same type of fluorescent psittacin than in wild birds? If the distribution of both fluorescence types is the same it would add consistency to this idea. If the distribution is not the same we should think of different psittacin types.
Regards
Recio
Re: Deep and Emerald
Hi Willy,
You said that the patched Emeralds were not fluorescing like normal Emeralds do but like other parblues. I understand that the distribution of the detected fluorescence in the patched emeralds follows the same pattern than in parblues ... but ... what about its quality? Is it similar to parblues (yellowish) or to normal emeralds (bluish/whitish)?
Recio
You said that the patched Emeralds were not fluorescing like normal Emeralds do but like other parblues. I understand that the distribution of the detected fluorescence in the patched emeralds follows the same pattern than in parblues ... but ... what about its quality? Is it similar to parblues (yellowish) or to normal emeralds (bluish/whitish)?
Recio
Re: Deep and Emerald
Recio, I will have to get a better UV source as I for one could not see 'bluish' florescence in my 'Emerald'. The patched birds only fluoresced strongly on the patches like the other Parblues. I have not compared them directly.
If my 'Emerald' was split for Turquoise then it has to be an 'Emerald' Green bird.
If my 'Emerald' was split for Turquoise then it has to be an 'Emerald' Green bird.
Re: Deep and Emerald
We do not have a "common" language to describe fluorescent colours ... but you were the first to describe that Emerald's fluorescence was completelly different than for the other birds. You can call it as you prefere (bluish, whitish, ...) and probably our perception also depends on the uv spectrum and its intensity ... but what I am asking is if the fluorescence of the patches in the patched Emeralds is of the same quality than the "normal" Emeralds or of the same quality than in other parblues.trabots wrote:Recio, I will have to get a better UV source as I for one could not see 'bluish' florescence in my 'Emerald'. The patched birds only fluoresced strongly on the patches like the other Parblues. I have not compared them directly.
Yes, that was Johan conclusion and I agree 100%.If my 'Emerald' was split for Turquoise then it has to be an 'Emerald' Green bird
Regards
Recio
Re: Deep and Emerald
Yes I did but I don't believe I was referring to the 'quality' of the flourescence but the quantity and possibly the intensity. The whole bird seemed to fluoresce unlike other Parblues which fluoresced mainly on the patches. I was not looking at others at the same time which would be imperative if trying to determine what you call 'quality'. I am sorry but I am not in a position to speculate about the quality of fluorescence without comparing same with same. I do not have the ability to photograph UV reflectance yet so except by putting them all under the light together, I can't help.you were the first to describe that Emerald's fluorescence was completelly different
What you have missed is that an 'Emerald' Green /Turquoise paired to a Blue will not breed Blues. My 'Emerald' does breed Blues, paired as it is to a Deep Violet Blue (5 Blues in 2 years). It must have at least one Blue gene which therefore means that it cannot also be split for Turquoise. My 'Emerald' is at best split for Blue only and the patched birds are still a mystery.If my 'Emerald' was split for Turquoise then it has to be an 'Emerald' Green bird
Re: Deep and Emerald
Deep, Deep Emerald, Emerald 9mo
Re: Deep and Emerald
Willy, great pic, thanks! Just want to make sure as I'm saving these to my picture collection, are the emeralds hetero-/homozygous? Thanks!
Re: Deep and Emerald
Johan, as I said before, if a Parblue or a dominant mutation is homozygous I will say 'df'.