What is the distinguishing features to look for to determine if a bird is carrying Emerald in Violetblues & Cobalts?
I have posted in another thread on "What am I" a young bird that is carrying Emerald to which you guessed correctly and I have 2 other siblings which one is definately a straight Emerald but there is another cobalt which dosn't look like a normal cobalt, it a lot brighter in appearance.
I will try and get photo and post for identification, might be reading more into it than I think.
I noticed a bit of creamy colour on the left leg confirming psittacin but no patchiness anywhere on the back which eliminated a Turquoise or Indigo gene possibility. The overall colour is similar to EmeraldBlue when combined with Violet or Dark.
I also meant to point out how much nicer Deep looks on an Emerald than Violet or Dark does. You 'in depth' thinkers may use this to surmise what is different about Deep from Violet and Dark and if the psittacin sometimes apparent in Deep birds also has something to do with it.
and another breeder's Violet EmeraldBlue. Does anyone have one of a Dark EmeraldBlue?
Just have to say....your birds are gorgeous colours!!
For me though, all this deep, dark, violet emeraldblue, deep emeraldblue......still all gobbledegook to me! I'll keep reading these kinds of posts though, cos I reckon it will l have to sink in sooner or later
That is one beautiful bird.
How did you get to Emerald from that pairing?
I'm not an expert in Emerald , far from it, but the parents did not have emerald and your bird is green based colors.
What do you guys think of my new acquisition? (bird is not home yet)
What will i pair her up with ? if you read my posts and recio's comments you'll know
She's a Grey Emerald
through hue/sat system
My UV torch should come any day now and i will post UV pics in a couple of months when i receive the bird.
Based on the picture & paint.net system alone, it certainly seems that way.
I don't have enough experience with Emerald to comment in more depth, i wish i did.
Perhaps Johan, Willy, Molossus could have an input as well.
The hue/sat system is still in testing phase but we can see that it can be beneficial, and we hope that it will help us in the future.
The only place i am seeing anything is in the tail
That to me shows that the system might not be working. Notice the 'milky' yellow in the neck region and on the primary flights. For me, those are the regions where one can pick up the difference between emerald and turquoise. And the only reason I can point out those regions, is because I have seen UV pictures and only after that did it become clear to me. The ultimate test remains a UV inspection.
Hue/Sat is not working on yellow birds, lutions etc, although i can see the emerald distinctive color where Peter circled in the photo.
I do think it helps on blue based colored birds and it can be used as an Aid/reference.
Certainly not guaranteed, just as with normal identification from pics, light, contrast, flash, etc best if a reference bird is in the pic of the same mutation.
Thanks for playing Peter. Pix removed, back to serious stuff.
Peter, back to your Emerald bird.
I think the only way to be sure with or without the hue/sat system is to get an Emerald bird amonst your ones in question to have them in the same photo, as Willy says: you need a 100% point of reference, a 100% Emerald from Emerald known bloodline.
Take a picture of all birds in same shot then it will be easier to identify.
Hue/Sat system i made up is only as accurate as the photos (and we know pictures ..) I use same camera and settings and results become more accurate.
However, i don't think anyone has en Emerald in the mutations you do or close, making harder to compare apples with apples.
Also, your bird is not blue based and that will make it even harder to prove or disprove as being an Emerald or not.
It simply means, you are ahead with your breeding program and not much reference exists.
Your beaut. bird needs to be paired up to a blue bird & confirm through the offspring.
Flash and lighting conditions changes everything.
Pics were taken close-up flash directly onto the bird, so Emerald can be seen clearer.
Best compare using same setting, camera, and if possible all birds in same photo.
Otherwise it is a reference rather then solid evidence. more fine tuning perhaps required.
I have taken several pics diff days of the same birds and managed to get diff. hue/sat colors.
I know what you mean though.
I invited Mick to join us, not sure if he's going to come onboard.
The bird was advertised for sale, still is.
I will try to find out the parentage.
She is a beauty isn't she?
There is a SA breeder I know of that has one. Don't have permission to post the picture, though. There is a rather large difference under UV between the SF and DF birds.
Does not look like an emerald to me, pic is also got too much lighting.
When you see an emerald you know immediately as the color is striking, not so easy to see in the pics.
parents should give you clues, i assume no cinnamon in the bird right?
I agree with Willy that sometimes is so hard to figure out through pics.
You know, it crossed my mind...lets all buy same digital camera, and specify setting of the pics taken so at least pic comparissons are closer to the truth. Easier said then done.
I learned something new this year. Last year I bred the Violet looking bird 2nd from the left at the top. It was much darker than a Violet but not as dark as its Deep Violet mother to its right so did not know what it was. The father is the Emerald to its left. [/img]
6 months later it started showing patches of green. Recio will remember this bird. [img]
Good points you made there molossus.
Willy did know it was an Emerald, just not a violet emerald, as i understand it.
(all birds in Willy's pic are emerald - deep emerald at bottom left) right Willy?
Willy, Recio - Is it possible that sometimes Emerald features emerge later? if it behaves as patched mutation one would think yes...
can breeders miss identify the birds as being emeralds when young? I assume that as birds get darker ie violet+cobalt+deep etc can make identification of emeralds harder!?
Molossus, that will depend entirely on whether the emerald mutation changes the expression of psittacins over time, or whether it is fairly constant from fledglings to adulthood (i.e. independent on hormones). The pictures that Willy has uploaded is the first evidence I've seen (on the internet, I don't own the mutation) that suggests that there is actually an increase over time. This is a piece of the puzzle that has been reported differently in the past. This is probably why Recio wants confirmation of the parentage of the father/cock to be sure to exclude indigo.
PS: It's not my camera, but I'll ask if I can bring it along.
molossus wrote:Willy hi,
I noticed this same process follows in the aqua alexandrine. Although the difference of blue to aqua is clear when babies feather up there is a gradual color change over the coming seasons with the green aspect being increased with each moult up until birds reach adulthood. I suppose this is linked to hormonal changes from fleging to adulthood.
Willy back to your pics. In the first pic you have : one young on the far right - is this the deep?
one young at the bottom - is this the deep emerald?
regards.
Willy did know it was an Emerald, just not a violet emerald, as i understand it.
(all birds in Willy's pic are emerald - deep emerald at bottom left) right Willy?