WHAT is The Mutation of My Baby? NEW pic. just added

myrka2004 · Post by **myrka2004** » Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:25 am

Doesn't know yet is it female or male...Will do DNA test later...
His birthday Is May 5th, 2012. Mom is Lutino , Dad is green split to Lutino

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rio2011 here pictures ...

thanks for respond! Need more pictures just ask

So, What is the mutation???

SCB 22 · Post by **SCB 22** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:56 am

Hi,

Are you sure it is green pied? Olive maybe? That is a very unique colour.

myrka2004 · Post by **myrka2004** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:37 pm

SCB 22 wrote:Hi,

Are you sure it is green pied? Olive maybe? That is a very unique colour.

that's was told my breeder, that he/she green pied... maybe picture not show that color...
will try better picture tomorrow ... thanks for respond

SCB 22 · Post by **SCB 22** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:24 pm

Another picture would be great, and I would love input from anyone else out there?

Just that a green pied usually has the normal green appearance with the pied markings.
Your bird is a mustardy yellow colour to start with, and not normal green at all?

Johan S · Post by **Johan S** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:54 pm

Well, I don't think it is a green pied either. I have some thoughts on what it could be, but would first like to see some more pictures, esp. ones including the flights and tail feathers.

Recio · Post by **Recio** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:18 am

Johan's thought: pied green grey cin

Am I right?

Recio

myrka2004 · Post by **myrka2004** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:13 am

Thanks everyone for respond....Will take more shots today with clother look...

myrka2004 · Post by **myrka2004** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:14 am

Recio wrote:Johan's thought: pied green grey cin

Am I right?

Recio

Do You have picture of that color mutation? please share...

myrka2004 · Post by **myrka2004** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:15 am

Johan S wrote:Well, I don't think it is a green pied either. I have some thoughts on what it could be, but would first like to see some more pictures, esp. ones including the flights and tail feathers.

Will try my best ....and do more shots

myrka2004 · Post by **myrka2004** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:17 am

SCB 22 wrote:Another picture would be great, and I would love input from anyone else out there?

Just that a green pied usually has the normal green appearance with the pied markings.
Your bird is a mustardy yellow colour to start with, and not normal green at all?

Yes, it look like mustard with yellow spots on back... at the bottom she/he yellowish color ....NO green color at all

Recio · Post by **Recio** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:11 pm

Hi Molosus,

Yes, it could also be a green cin violet ... or a combination of cinnamon with any structural mutation (grey, violet or dark) in the green series. Hard to say which one. Maybe with better pics...

This kind of combination is not very available since breeders usually avoid ino and cin to keep colourfull birds, so hard to say. What's your feeling Madas?

Recio

Recio · Post by **Recio** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:12 pm

Recio wrote:Hi Molosus,

Yes, it could also be a pied green cin violet ... or a combination of pied cinnamon with any structural mutation (grey, violet or dark) in the green series. Hard to say which one. Maybe with better pics... Piedness is not really well appreciated in these pics ...

This kind of combination is not very available since breeders usually avoid ino and cin to keep colourfull birds, so hard to say. What's your feeling Madas?

Recio

myrka2004 · Post by **myrka2004** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:00 pm

molossus wrote:Looks to me like a cin violet green....

myrka2004 · Post by **myrka2004** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:04 pm

Recio wrote:Hi Molosus,

Yes, it could also be a green cin violet ... or a combination of cinnamon with any structural mutation (grey, violet or dark) in the green series. Hard to say which one. Maybe with better pics...

This kind of combination is not very available since breeders usually avoid ino and cin to keep colourfull birds, so hard to say. What's your feeling Madas?

Recio

Still need better pictures? what do you need to make me better picture....sorry I'm not a photographer, but will try again...

Johan S · Post by **Johan S** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:59 pm

Recio wrote:Johan's thought: pied green grey cin

Am I right?

Recio

I was still waiting for other pictures...

I was thinking green cinnamon pied with a structural mutation, probably grey. So you have read my mind perfectly!

However, with the new photos uploaded, I think Molossus has it spot on...
This looks cinnamon violet green pied to me. First time I've seen a cinnamon pied, so thanks for the pictures.

Recio · Post by **Recio** » Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:23 am

I agree

Recio

myrka2004 · Post by **myrka2004** » Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:13 am

Johan S wrote:
Recio wrote:Johan's thought: pied green grey cin

Am I right?

Recio
I was still waiting for other pictures... I was thinking green cinnamon pied with a structural mutation, probably grey. So you have read my mind perfectly!

However, with the new photos uploaded, I think Molossus has it spot on...
This looks cinnamon violet green pied to me. First time I've seen a cinnamon pied, so thanks for the pictures.

thanks for respond, but pictures a little bit darker then the baby color...
how you saw a violet there if the Mather is Lutino , Dad is green /split Lutino ?
will try to do more better shots today.

myrka2004 · Post by **myrka2004** » Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:02 am

myrka2004 wrote:
Johan S wrote:
Recio wrote:Johan's thought: pied green grey cin quote]
thanks for respond, but pictures a little bit darker then the baby color...
how you saw a violet there if the Mather is Lutino , Dad is green /split Lutino ?
just add new 11 pictures , please look up again

Maybe Golden Olive ??

myrka2004 · Post by **myrka2004** » Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:26 am

Here what my other breeder just said to me
From the genetic info below, if you cross a lutino female and a green split to lutino male, here are the possible outcomes:

Males: some could be lutino

some could be green split to lutino

females: some could be lutino

some could be green (never split to lutino)

since neither parent has a pied gene, I don't see where the pied could come from.........

Pied green (also known as Opaline) is a recessive....so, both parents would have to be split to pied or one would have to be a pied and the other parent split.......

Do my baby Green Split Lutino? and it is male???

Johan S · Post by **Johan S** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:00 am

Lutino masks a number of mutations, including violet. So the breeder could be/or could have misinformed you. It 'looks' violet, so that's what we used for the guessing game. No one can tell from a picture that the picture actually isn't a true reflection of the bird's colour.

myrka2004 · Post by **myrka2004** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:53 pm

Green split lutino cock x lutino hen =
25% lutino cocks, 25% green split lutino cocks, 25% lutino hens, 25% normal green hens.

IN that clunch that I took my baby were 4 babies : 2- Lutiono and 2 Green Split to Lutino and mom was color Lutino and dad is Green Split to Lutino SO,

my baby is MALE Green Split Lutino and NOT Green Pied as the breeder was told.
Still not do DNA test as not arrived yet...
and of cource will wait for for next year molting period to see COLOR results of my baby

Thanks every one, who were responded to me

willowisp71 · Post by **willowisp71** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:35 am

Hi myrka,

just came across this post...I think I read somewhere else that you had your DNA results back on this birdy? How did you go? Was it a boy or a girl? (my guess is a girl....??)

My thoughts on his/her colour are in line with what the other guys are saying also. You definitely don't have a green looking bird there, regardless of what it is split too. (A green split to another colour/mutation, will basically LOOK just like a normal green bird).

Although the parents of this bird may have LOOKED just a green colour and a yellow (lutino) colour, it's possible they were both split to recessive pied, giving your bird a pied look. I also think the father must have been split to cinnamon, as well as split to lutino.

I'm also interested in when you said 2 of it's siblings were "Green split to Lutino" -

myrka2004 wrote:IN that clunch that I took my baby were 4 babies : 2- Lutiono and 2 Green Split to Lutino and mom was color Lutino and dad is Green Split to Lutino SO,

-what gave you the impression the green chicks were split to lutino? You would not have been able to "see" the lutino in them, as the nature of being split to a colour means it is "unseen". Did these chicks look normal green (pea green), or did they look darker, or more olive-like? And on that note, did the dad also look normal (pea) green, or was he a darker looking green?

I find this all very fascinating, and the colour of your baby is just so unusual!

It would be great to pin down what mutation she/he is. I think you have a pretty special birdy there

willowisp71 · Post by **willowisp71** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:57 am

Oh, and one for the boys that were trying to work this out earlier........if you look at the original pic that Johan posted with his thoughts - see how "pink" the foot and toenail looks?

Johan S wrote:
Recio wrote:Johan's thought: pied green grey cin

Am I right?

Recio
I was still waiting for other pictures... I was thinking green cinnamon pied with a structural mutation, probably grey. So you have read my mind perfectly!

However, with the new photos uploaded, I think Molossus has it spot on...
This looks cinnamon violet green pied to me. First time I've seen a cinnamon pied, so thanks for the pictures.

Given my background in photography and photo processing, I can see that the very cyan-y blue cloth(?) that the bird is sitting on would have thrown the actual colours of the photo out - so if I apply the appropriate corrections to try and get the birds "skin tone" correct, ie grey, this is what we end up with;

Do we still think there is violet somewhere in there?? (The colour correction isn't perfect, sorry, as the use of a flash so close to the subject is going to overexpose the image, but you can see quite a bit of difference to the original pic posted)

Johan S · Post by **Johan S** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:16 am

Hi Deb, you do make a very valid point...

You know, when one looks at pictures (well, at least me), I assume that the person that has taken it has taken care to ensure that it is an accurate representation of the colour.

Tartan ringnecks · Post by **Tartan ringnecks** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:17 pm

Can I as what you have disided the bird in the picture is as lot of names
are being thrown about.

T.r

Ring0Neck · Post by **Ring0Neck** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:19 pm

The bird is in Molt, hence the pied features in my opinion.
Should wait out once new feathers come through.
Parentage is the key
Cinnamon ? quiet dark nails
Looks more like a grey-green maybe masking violet? but we also have to assume the violetish tinge coming from the camera/light settings??

Tartan. Identifying a bird by it's looks, phenotype is not what breeders do. We just trying to best guess.
Firstly look/identify it's parents as nr 1 step and then the possibility of split mutations in parents
then the list is much shorter and more accurate.

PS - i just read more of the posts, and it can still be a greygreen as lutino hen could mask grey.

PPS - Here's a Cinnamon Blue CT & a Lavender - going through molt - looks great doesn't it?
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/CTCinna.JPG

Ben

willowisp71 · Post by **willowisp71** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:30 pm

Hi Ben,

I love that pic of the cinnamon blue CHCT - even moulting! They are both gorgeous birds, and I'd love to go down the CHCT lane one day

Tartan ringnecks · Post by **Tartan ringnecks** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:53 pm

Thank you for your comments RIng o Neck.
I was only trying to find out we're the thought
came from to think the bird was pied ?

As it Doesn't seem to Have the markings of Dom/ pied
Or the usual pied patch on its head to suggest it is a res/pied.

What is lavender ? Is it a violet cinnamon

T.r

Ring0Neck · Post by **Ring0Neck** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:22 pm

What is lavender ? Is it a violet cinnamon
Yes

sheyd · Post by **sheyd** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:10 pm

I only briefly looked at the pics but my first thought was a Grey Green Cinnamon.

prodigy · Post by **prodigy** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:22 am

Tartan ringnecks · Post by **Tartan ringnecks** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:23 pm

Can I as why we are calling birds lavender am I missing something

T.r

willowisp71 · Post by **willowisp71** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:51 pm

Hi Tartan,

Lavender is, I think, when cinnamon is present in violets? Lavender = violet blue cinnamon?? Not sure if (sf) or (df) needs to be present here - still learning about the lavenders.

Ring0Neck · Post by **Ring0Neck** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:13 pm

Deb,
That's correct. Lavender=violet blue cinnamon
if it is a DF then you just specify DF Lavender

mallee_1 · Post by **mallee_1** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:20 pm

Hi Tartan,

I am with you on this one, why call it something its not, its a violetblue cinammon thats its genetic make up.

Same as the skyblue, blue cinnamon, but everyone refers to them as Skyblue, ask around if anyone has a Blue cinnamon and see the blank looks on faces, not so much the breeders been around awhile but new people into birds.

All the experts tell me what this one is "Lilac", this is being advertised for sale at the moment.

Glenn

willowisp71 · Post by **willowisp71** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:48 pm

I know what you mean Glenn!

Boy, when I first started looking into mutations, I was getting sooo confused by all the different names that were being thrown around, I didn't think I was EVER going to get my head around it. I still get confused with some of them - like "Lilac" - I too would like to know what they mean by that??? Is it just someone's idea of "Lavender" aka violetblue cinnamon??
I think the biggest instigators of the numerous "new" names and/or INCORRECTLY named mutations/colours are the backyard breeders that progress from budgies, weiro's, lorikeets etc into breeding IRN's, but neglect to do their genetic homework in the process.

The most common mistakes I come across are people naming Grey-green as Olive, and Turquoise(parblue)Blue as Aqua or SkyBlue......they just look at the colour, and think, "oh, that looks like...(colour)..." and then advertise as such. Frustrating.

Ring0Neck · Post by **Ring0Neck** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:09 pm

Some call Cobalt Cinnamon = a Lilac

There is a common naming system that all world-wide breeders try to adhere to.
This is a list of names for indian ringnecks (some names are missing)
Not every breeder is in touch with the world and made up names are being thrown around, practise using the world known naming
and you'll be right.

http://www.euronet.nl/users/dwjgh/newnames.htm or
http://www.mutavi.info/index.php?ref=newnames

list was last revised 2007 it seems.

Tartan ringnecks · Post by **Tartan ringnecks** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:38 pm

Ringoneck thank you for the charts have them myself and I don't see lavender in their.

As for the backyard breeders and the budgie breeders I take my hat off to them as
30 years ago thay were the only books on genetics I could find to read up on.
So I don't beleave thay are the people to blame for all the wrong names that we are
Seeing today.

So are people changing names so thay can make more money out of them ???.

T.r.

Ring0Neck · Post by **Ring0Neck** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:12 pm

Imagine all cars, makes and models? Why so many? becuase there is many cars out there and each type has to be named so we can differentiate between them.
A car enthusiast will know all about these cars and models, pros n cons, if one buys a car to drive it to work then he'll know a few basic things about them.
Same goes for everything.
All breeders are important.

Tartan ringnecks · Post by **Tartan ringnecks** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:29 pm

I don't no what cars have to do with genetics in mutation Indian ringnecks ?

What I don't understand is that we have a genetic name for a mutation or combination mutation
And people don't use it this is why we get problems with new people coming into the hobbie when
Thay say how do we enter lavender , lilac , rainbow and so on in the gen/cal .

Q,
So are people changing names so thay can make more money out of them. ?????