IndianRingNeck.com

Hi everyone,
It has taken a long time to finally be able to take some comparison photos between Deep and Dark in green series. After losing his only Deep green hen, Martin was able to bred a Deep green chick this season. I was able to breed a Dark green chick and this has allowed for us to make accurate comparisons as the juveniles are both of the same age.

Before we made any comparisons, I made the call that since Deep blue is very similar to Dark blue phenotypically, we should expect the same in green series. This is contrary to the only other comparison photos of Deep and Dark greens that was taken by Ron, which showed a Deep green that was much darker then a Dark green.

Upon viewing the both the Deep and the Dark green together for the first time Martin was surprised to see just how similar the phenotypes were.

We tried to capture the variation by putting them in a cage with a wild type green, however this was futile as they just wouldn't co-operate long enough to get decent photos of the 3 together. We had to resort to in hand photos, and here is what we came up with.



Dark green upside down, Deep green to right, wild type in foreground.


Dark green top, Deep below


Dark on left Deep on right


Dark on top, Deep below(blue ring)


Dark on top, Deep below



Dark left, Deep right


Dark on top, Deep below

Below are some comparisons with the Deep green and wild type juvenile of the same age.


Wild type on top


Wild type on top


Wild type on top


Wild type on top.

In the end our findings were that the Deep Green had more of a bluish wash over the covert feathers when compared to the Dark green, and the green of the Dark green was touch greener, especially in the flights and around the eyes and cere. So overall very, very similar. There was almost no difference in the colour of tail feathers or the underside of either bird.

Kappa, if you can do some pics of the parent birds iro the deep green .. we must bear in mind the depth of green inherited from the original wildcolor bird that produced your parent stock of deep..and you may need more sample deep greens to confirm the range of shades..from my experience the deep blue range from almost normal blue to almost dark blue or cobalt..
you deserve praise for your effort to unearth this mystery..and of course in time you will breed the df deep green .. well done.

Wow, amazing! I can see the difference in the primary and tail feathers! Very interesting!

Best wishes,

IMRAN-C

Hi Lee,
Photos of the parents might take a little while to get as they are not my birds. What I can tell you is that Martin bred the juvinile Deep green hen out of a Green Cleartail/blue cock and a DF Deep turquoise hen.

Due to the fact that there is no known stock of original Deep green birds in existence, any development of green series birds has to occur through breeding Deep blue birds with normal wild type greens. Unfortunately, as you mention the variation that exists in blue series birds means that this method is not the ideal way of establishing Deep green birds.

This means that any variation will be introduced into green series birds. Normally, we would advance a mutation from a green series base, but in this case we are working backwards and unfortunately carrying any modifier genes back with the ones we want.

I am however, lucky enough to have a Deep Turqoiseblue hen that was bred out of the original Deep blue cock produced in Oz. She may represent possibly a pure form of Deep with limited influence to modifier genes. I will attempt to breed Deep Greens out of her, which can be then compared with that of Martin's.

As for the praise, I'm just glad that I've been able to spark some interest in getting those with Deeps to consider not only the importance Deep green and DF Deep green, but the value they may hold. Especially since green series birds, in some mutations, are attracting more interest than blue series here in Oz.

I believe with the work being undertaken by Martin and myself, we will re-establish the Deep green that was originally developed by the late Gavin Swales.

Thanks for your response.
Kappa.

P.S in regards to your pm, I'm not on fb, just a personal choice but thanks for the offer anyway.

A dark I bred , seems to be a lot darker than yours

Was going to put up a pic of a chic I bred last season which I'm not sure if it's
A deep green / ht or just a green / ht
But pic is to big and won't load ....
Will put it on the face book post

Thanks Kappa very informative as usual.

Thanks Kappa very interesting indeed. I have been told that the Deep gene gives a brighter phenotype than the Dark gene in blue series. Is such a difference visible in green series? I can't tell from the photos but I wouldn't expect to be able to do so.

Hi Mike,
Good to hear from you. It's a tough call as both Deep and Dark green are surprisingly very similar. The only area which might be described as being brighter is on the covert wing feathers. The Deep has more of a "bluer" wash in this area. It also appears to be more irredesent or reflective, if that makes sense. Other than that there's not much in it. Keeping in mind, that we are only comparing a very limited sample size of Deep And Dark greens, and whether this will hold true for all individuals is unknown.

Further specimens will be needed before accurate phenotypical differences can be established.

I hope this helps answer your question.

Cheers,
Kappa.

Thanks Kappa that explains it very well for me. I am trying to breed Deep Green Cleartails but I am a few seasons away from the target outcome. I got a Deep TurquoiseBlue split Cleartail from Willy and it only gave me 1 full Cleartail chick. The chick was a TurquoiseTurquoise Deep Cleartail cock. I will pair it to a young Green Cleartail split Blue hen in 2017 and hope. Thanks again.

The emerald green to me is by far the most beautiful of all the colors. Id pass up a violet for an emerald green anyday

I'm afraid I don't know what you mean by Emerald Green? I am aware that EmeraldTurquoise is green in colour, is that what you mean?