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Re: Cleartail X Dom Pied
Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:34 am
by madas
trabots wrote:It is my understanding that no mutation can 'undo' another mutation's action (Recio?). If that is so then a SF Pied CHCT would still have a clear head and tail but with melanin elimination (luecism) in random areas where there is still extant melanin ie: on the back and chest only of a CHCT. A DF Pied CHCT would essentially be a not quite clear bird hard to distinguish from a DF Pied.
I totally agree with your statement. Combos of pallid and rec. pied have shown that the resulting phenotpye is build by a completely White resp. yellow head and a pied Body and flights showing a pied pattern within the greyish pallid pattern.
See here
http://www.indianringneck.com/forum/vie ... 26&t=16983
Same goes for pallid opaline Combos. The head is still White resp. yellow. And i think we will see the same for the males of an opaline cleartail Combo.
madas
Re: Cleartail X Dom Pied
Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:38 am
by madas
Ring0Neck wrote:A local breeder just advertised a Blue Reverse Pied (aka DF Pied)
I have not asked yet the parents but i assume this bird is a df pied.
It very much resembles my "white" bird.
I don't think it is a df dom. pied because the feets are to light. They look like the feets of a cleartail or rec. pied. If you compare the pics of Chris WHipps df dom. pied blue you can clearly see a difference.
So i am still with a cleartail dom. pied Combo. How old is the bird? Male or female?
madas
Re: Cleartail X Dom Pied
Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:03 am
by Ring0Neck
So i am still with a cleartail dom. pied Combo. How old is the bird? Male or female?
madas
I think it's 2012. don't remember the sex.
Yes, limited pics available of the DF pied we have seen showed darker feet/nails.
I assumed Df pied by looking at breeder's website, http://www.parraweenaaviaries.com.au/#!ringnecks/c1nc3
Pics of the parents?? both pied, no other pieds on the website other then the white 1 which i assume is offspring of.
(i emailed the breeder, hope we get a reply)
Pic Chris has on his website ATM; the df pied is bred from saddleback not pure pieds.
so that bird could carry an additional or saddleback mutation to get the dark feet/nails.
http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au/w ... ghland.jpg
Re: Cleartail X Dom Pied
Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:10 am
by bennjamin
madas wrote:trabots wrote:It is my understanding that no mutation can 'undo' another mutation's action (Recio?). If that is so then a SF Pied CHCT would still have a clear head and tail but with melanin elimination (luecism) in random areas where there is still extant melanin ie: on the back and chest only of a CHCT. A DF Pied CHCT would essentially be a not quite clear bird hard to distinguish from a DF Pied.
I totally agree with your statement. Combos of pallid and rec. pied have shown that the resulting phenotpye is build by a completely White resp. yellow head and a pied Body and flights showing a pied pattern within the greyish pallid pattern.
See here
http://www.indianringneck.com/forum/vie ... 26&t=16983
Same goes for pallid opaline Combos. The head is still White resp. yellow. And i think we will see the same for the males of an opaline cleartail Combo.
madas
Is this pic of a mauve opaline cleartail not a cock bird?
Re: Cleartail X Dom Pied
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:39 am
by Ring0Neck
Just an update on this "white" bird.
Paired to green violet/CT/turq or /blue hen
these 2 are the offspring from first clutch
second clutch of 4 eggs due to hatch soon. hope i can get the CTpied combo.
Re: Cleartail X Dom Pied
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:23 am
by Carr.birds
Ben
Unlucky no dom pied or cleartail dom pied but you have confirmation in the nest that cleartail is involved with the blue cleartail baby.
Tienie
Re: Cleartail X Dom Pied
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:31 pm
by Ring0Neck
Molossus
The offspring speaks for itself. Madas it seems got it right with the CT pied, it is the most logical explanation however still not certain another mutation like edged is not the cause to whitten the bird. thus far results point to CT pied.
Tiennie, I was lucky enough the pair went down again and hope the second clutch to be more kind this time round.
I hope the hen is split turquoise, i think it'll be a nice bird Turq Ct Pied...
should see turq. soon on the 2 chicks soon if she's split turq.
Re: Cleartail X Dom Pied
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:00 pm
by bennjamin
So you are saying the cock is a SF dom pied CT, not a DF dom pied, the 2 chicks colour indicates the hen is split blue.
Re: Cleartail X Dom Pied
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:04 pm
by Ring0Neck
Yes Benjamin, that's what it looks like thus far.
Re: Cleartail X Dom Pied
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:26 am
by Johan S
Ring0Neck wrote: think it'll be a nice bird Turq Ct Pied...
Looking at the mother, I'd reckon the turq CT dom. pied will look like a creamino.
I think the effect could be very nice if you manage to track down some dom. pieds that are poorly marked, to leave some melanin in place. The yellow wings with the blotches of blue will be magnificent.
Re: Cleartail X Dom Pied
Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:20 pm
by Ring0Neck
2 chicks made it from second clutch
and my funny season comes to a close
out of 32 possiblities i get the 2 worst ones
a grey green & a blue 
Re: Cleartail X Dom Pied
Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:45 pm
by trabots
Ron has just advised me that from a Dom Pied x CHCT pairing he also got an almost white bird.
Re: Cleartail & Dom Pied
Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:48 pm
by Ring0Neck
Hi Willy,
The Pied was not split CT??
Can Ron get some pics of the parents for us?
*** Could it be NSL INO ? .... 
My white looking bird bred no pieds and therefore no white/yellow birds.
Re: Cleartail X Dom Pied
Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:47 pm
by Carr.birds
Lee
If it is the W E.... cock I am thinking of I can confirm it is grey emerald dom pied/cleartail?
Tienie
Re: Cleartail X Dom Pied
Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:51 pm
by trabots
Obviously I queried Ron about the Pied being split CHCT however it wasn't sold to him as that. He also says it has very small dark patches, just like a DF Pied.
Re: Cleartail X Dom Pied
Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:04 am
by Ring0Neck
As I mentioned previously, back to the drawing board with my "white" pied.
Bred 4 young: 1 blue, 1 violet blue, grey-green & 1 blue whwt (no pieds)
perfect ratio of 2 split whwts
Mick has bred the Cinnamon Pied
I think we can eliminate Cinnamon looking at his bird it does not allow color to come through but evens out throughout. The
Check out the video at the top
http://www.karmicaviaries.com/RingnecksGallery4.htm
Re: Cleartail X Dom Pied
Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:55 pm
by bennjamin
The pied cocks from JS and GB and others that purchased pieds early on from the line that had come from pied opaline hen, some of the new owners have now proven the presence of the opaline colour gene in their pied cocks, is there not the probability that there is discarded cock birds that were non pied but possible carriers of the opaline gene are floating around. How long have pieds been getting paired up with HT birds here in Australia ? Seems an avenue not thought of till now, yet Tiene indicates the grey emerald dominant pied/cleartail is. Was this bird one exported from Australia ?
Re: Cleartail X Dom Pied
Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:02 pm
by Ring0Neck
The pied cocks from JS and GB and others that purchased pieds early on from the line that had come from pied opaline hen, some of the new owners have now proven the presence of the opaline colour gene in their pied cocks, is there not the probability that there is discarded cock birds that were non pied but possible carriers of the opaline gene are floating around.
What combo are you thinking of? Pied Opaline CT? my "white" bird is a male.
The parents of my bird would have had to be opaline split or visual + pied/CT X opaline CT hen - unlikely.
How long have pieds been getting paired up with HT birds here in Australia ? Seems an avenue not thought of till now, yet Tiene indicates the grey emerald dominant pied/cleartail is. Was this bird one exported from Australia ?
Many breeders do look out for Opaline offspring with little success.
I had a Turq.Blue Pied ck from JS and he did tell me , possible split opaline, so yes some are out there.
Re: Cleartail X Dom Pied
Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:41 pm
by bennjamin
If you had a known cock sf dom blue pied / ht what would you pair with it Ben, is there known pied HT birds that are known to be for certain that combination? If so any pics or earlier posts about them.
Re: Cleartail X Dom Pied
Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:00 am
by Johan S
bennjamin wrote:Seems an avenue not thought of till now, yet Tiene indicates the grey emerald dominant pied/cleartail is. Was this bird one exported from Australia ?
Yes, that bird was exported to SA and is without a doubt one of my favourite ringnecks in the country. As for the recessive mutations in dom. pieds, I'm not surprised. One, Oz is a closed country so the gene pool will eventually get more and more of these mutations floating around, and I'd be very surprised to find too many clean emeralds in Oz. Most people will prefer to take their first emerald and pair it to a blue CT than a normal blue, for example. I'd do the same.
Re: Cleartail X Dom Pied
Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:19 am
by Indian Ringneck Vic
Johan and Recio ( if your availible ) is it possible that the dom pied in Australia is actually the same mutation as the spangle in the budgie this theory has been air'd in Deon's book and is widely speculated here in Aus amongst some of our long term IRN breeders there are simularities when you look at these colour morphs in budgies and thier was thought to be another seriers that was particularly phenotypical to another mutation being the dilute or citron this in the DF is identical to the spangle budgie the late JS worked on these birds without success for years I often wonder if his citron was not a citron tho phenotyple to dilute however it may have been not genotypical and may well been a spangle your thoughts would be appreciated. Deon does show pics and illustrations of feathers that in my opinion go a long way to supporting this theory.
Re: Cleartail X Dom Pied
Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:01 am
by Johan S
Re: Cleartail X Dom Pied
Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:06 pm
by Ring0Neck
molossus wrote:Willy I have experienced the exact opposite...
I bred two birds that appear cleartails from
an emerald dom pied cock(the famous first grey emerald bred in Oz) .. not supposed to be /cleartail.
to a Dark Green hen of unknown origin(I now suspect /cleartail)
It could be that some of the dom pieds in circulation also carry the cleartail gene ..or is there something more mysterious at work?
Molossus did you breeding only CT birds & no pieds from your pair?
My pair did not throw any pieds out of 4 chicks but 1 CT
Also, I spoke to Ron re his "white" bird he bred.
He has a grey pied (from Chris) and was told poss. split CT
He said that the young chick has dark red eyes and some colored feathers which confirms CT Pied
the only other chick in that nest was a normal parblue.
So with above cleared up it makes more sense that my "white" bird is in also a CT Pied.
1 out of 4 chicks would be an acceptable ratio for a CT X /CT pairing
Re: Cleartail X Dom Pied
Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:01 pm
by Ring0Neck
Molossus,
That is very exiciting news !
Looking forward to see the pics.
Re: Cleartail X Dom Pied
Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:00 pm
by madas
molossus wrote:
I cant wait to see the chick feather up.
So feeding dandelion can help with this.
madas
Re: Cleartail X Dom Pied
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:16 pm
by Ring0Neck
Molossus,
Got any recent pics of the young above?
Re: Cleartail X Dom Pied
Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:52 am
by Ring0Neck
Sorry to hear that man 
