My pairings for the 2012 season

[Lushen1600]

Hi all here is todays update

Pair 3 - Day 31
Please note the following pics were taken without flash and are very dark, will have to go back to using the flash when I take out pics tomorrow




Thanks
Lushen

[Lushen1600]

Hi all here is today's update

Pair 3 - Day 32




Pair 4 - removed the 3 indian ringneck eggs and the 2 maroon bellied conure eggs as they were all infertile

Pair 7 - candled the 3 eggs and all infertile as I expected, but I'm leaving it in so that the hen gets accustomed to sit the full incubation period

My maroon bellied conure female seemed to fly very oddly yesterday and was landing on the cage floor, so when I went to check on her this morning, I found that she was flat on the floor with the male next to her and she wasn't moving much, I immediately checked her nestbox and found 2 eggs inside and my first thought was that she was eggbound. I took her out the cage and palpated her pelvic area to find no egg inside. I phoned our club chairmen who said that she has possibly drained herself of calcium due to the number of eggs she was laying and cracking and now is too weak to move. So I took her to him to see if he can get her back into normal condition and she will be there for the next few days, I hope she is going to be alright, as they seem to be very hard to find these birds for sale very often compared to other birds for sale.

Thanks
Lushen

[Eshana]

Hi Lushen

So sorry about your conure. I hope she heals quickly. Take care....

Kind Regards
Eshana

[Lushen1600]

Hi all here is the update for Tuesday 30/10/2012

Pair 3 - Day 33




Sorry for the late updates

Thanks
Lushen

[Lushen1600]

Hi all here is the update for Wednesday 31/10/2012

Pair 3 - Day 34




Thanks
Lushen

[Lushen1600]

Hi all here is the update for Thursday 01/11/2012

Pair 3 - Day 35




Thanks
Lushen

[Lushen1600]

Hi Lushen

So sorry about your conure. I hope she heals quickly. Take care....

Kind Regards
Eshana

Hi Eshana, I spoke to our club chairmen and he said that my conure is doing a little better, but she is gonna be with him for a while because she is going to take time to recover

Thanks
Lushen

[millyz_madness]

Hi I'm new to the site today and have just read your entire post and it's very helpful and I love looking through your photos

Thanks
Mel

[Lushen1600]

Hi all here is the update for Friday 02/11/2012

Pair 3 - Day 36





Thanks
Lushen

[Lushen1600]

Hi all here is the update for Saturday 03/11/2012

Pair 3 - Day 37




Thanks
Lushen

[Lushen1600]

Hi I'm new to the site today and have just read your entire post and it's very helpful and I love looking through your photos

Thanks
Mel

Hi Milly, I'm glad that you have joined this forum, there is a lot that you can learn from the experienced guys and gals on here, just like I learn every day from them, glad that you like my thread and posts, hope you are here to stay for a very long time

Thanks
Lushen

[Lushen1600]

Hi all, just want to do a quick summary for round one of my breeding season, so that all can have an idea of what I have encountered

Total number of Pairs - 7

Total number of Eggs laid - 30
Dissappeared/eaten eggs - 1
Eggs found out of nestbox cracked - 2
Infertile eggs - 12
Fertile eggs - 15
Dead in shell - 1

Total number of chicks hatched -14
Dissappeared/eaten chicks - 1
Dead through mother not feeding - 3
Total chicks brought up - 10

1 x adult cock bird died in nestbox - Pair 5 (sold female)

So as you can see from the above statistics, not a very good breeding season, but this is the same experience most breeders are having in the vicinity, from my experience as you can see above only 10 chicks were brought up from 30 eggs being laid, which is not very good, but considering that some of my birds are young(1 pair being year old) and breeding for their first time, I'm hoping to have a better season next year as I don't think my birds will go down a second time. Will continue with the updates of the 2 chicks that I am keeping from Pair 3 until they are fully fledged and eating on their own. Now I need to concentrate on next years season and look at ways on how to improve the ratio of number of chicks hatched to number of eggs laid, any advice from the more experienced guys in this regard will be most appreciated as I believe that all newbies will benefit from this advice when they plan their future breeding programmes

Thanks
Lushen

[millyz_madness]

Hi I'm new to the site today and have just read your entire post and it's very helpful and I love looking through your photos

Thanks
Mel

Hi Milly, I'm glad that you have joined this forum, there is a lot that you can learn from the experienced guys and gals on here, just like I learn every day from them, glad that you like my thread and posts, hope you are here to stay for a very long time

Thanks
Lushen

Thanks lushen!! I most definAtely intend to be here for a long time I have bred budgies for years but am excited to say I'm getting my first hand raised approx 12 week old baby IRN in just a few weeks the DNA results will be in tomorrow or Tuesday so excited to find out the gender!!! He/she as far as The breeder and I know, is a green lacewing with red eyes.
Since being on this board it most definAtely makes me consider breeding irn's myself haha
Thanks mel

[Lushen1600]

Hi all here is the update for Sunday 04/11/2012

Pair 3 - Day 38




Thanks
Lushen

[Lushen1600]

Hi all here is the update for Monday 05/11/2012

Pair 3 - Day 39




Thanks
Lushen

[Lushen1600]

Hi all here is todays update

Pair 3 - Day 40




Thanks
Lushen

[Lushen1600]

Hi all here is the update for Wednesday 07/11/2012

Pair 3 - Day 41




Sorry for the late updates, currently in college studying for my practical exam on thursday and 2 theoretical papers next week, so I will try by all means to take out pics on a daily basis and post them in my free time, please excuse me if I don't post on a daily basis

Thanks
Lushen

[Lushen1600]

Hi all here is the update for Thursday 08/11/2012

Pair 3 - Day 42




Thanks
Lushen

[Lushen1600]

Hi all here is the update for Friday 09/11/2012

Pair 3 - Day 43




Thanks
Lushen

[Lushen1600]

Hi all here is the update for Saturday 10/11/2012

Pair 3 - Day 44




Thanks
Lushen

[Lushen1600]

Hi all here is the update for Sunday 11/11/2012

Pair 3 - Day 45




Thanks
Lushen

[Lushen1600]

Hi all here is the update for Monday 12/11/2012

Pair 3 - Day 46




Thanks
Lushen

[willowisp71]

Hi Lushen,

Thanks for the updates, it's been lovely to follow your progress, and interesting to see your stats for this years breeding season also......

And just do I can test out my GenCalc knowledge, thus far, would this be the correct calculation for your Pair 3??

1.0 blue edge_dilution(sf) cinnamon /ino
x 0.1 ino /blue
% from all 1.0
12.5% 1.0 blue ino edge_dilution(sf) /cinnamon
12.5% 1.0 blue ino /cinnamon
12.5% 1.0 ino edge_dilution(sf) /blue cinnamon
12.5% 1.0 ino /blue cinnamon
12.5% 1.0 blue edge_dilution(sf) /cinnamon ino
12.5% 1.0 blue /cinnamon ino
12.5% 1.0 green edge_dilution(sf) /blue cinnamon ino
12.5% 1.0 green /blue cinnamon ino
% from all 0.1
12.5% 0.1 blue cinnamon edge_dilution(sf)
12.5% 0.1 blue cinnamon
12.5% 0.1 green cinnamon edge_dilution(sf) /blue
12.5% 0.1 green cinnamon /blue
12.5% 0.1 blue ino cinnamon edge_dilution(sf)
12.5% 0.1 blue ino cinnamon
12.5% 0.1 ino cinnamon edge_dilution(sf) /blue
12.5% 0.1 ino cinnamon /blue

Or did I miss something?

And if correct, are your chicks, in fact, visually Lutino and Albino, ie not showing any of the other mutations (being ino/blue cinnamon and blue ino/cinnamon, and both male)? Or is it too hard to tell at this age? Would the cinnamon or the edge-dilution even show up in these 2 birds?

As you can see, my fascination with this genetics gig has not waned I eat, sleep and breathe the stuff at the moment

[Lushen1600]

Hi Willow your calculation is correct.

As for your question ino or blue ino will mask edge dilution so the babies will look like normal Lutino and normal albino and will have to be test mated to preferably normal green or normal blue birds which are not carrying any splits to determine if these birds are actually dominant edge

As for cinnamon, I haven't personally seen an ino cinnamon or a blue ino cinnamon and the only pic I saw online of one looked like a green pallid, so I'm really not sure what they are supposed to look like. If you go up and look at the first pic taken out for Thursday 08/11/2012, you will notice that the albino chicks flights and tail feathers look off white, but in reality the whole bird look normal full white. So 3 questions came to mind when I first saw that pic

1) Did the flash used in that pic cause the tail and flight feathers to go off white?
2) Is the flash that was used in the pic showing something that cannot be seen by the naked eyed?
3) If indeed the flash did cause some feathers to go offwhite, why only the tail and flight feathers and not the rest of the bird?

So as you can see even I'm not sure, so as I am keeping these 2 babies, I will wait for them to mature and test mate them to see what their genetic makeup actually is, so its all about patience

Thanks
Lushen

[SCB 22]

Hi Lushen ,

wonder if you can help,

what is an albino genetically? Like your lutino is a green bird with the ino making it white, what is the genetic make up required to breed an albino?

A friend has a female albino and grey lacewing male.
They had 2 chicks, one albino, one grey lacewing, what will the babies genetically be? Will the albino be split for anything? Does the sex of the babies influence what they will be split for?

And secondly, a olive male paired with a green cinnamon lacewing, what babies would they produce?

Thanks

[McmillanBirds]

(sorry if I am sticking my nose in here Lushen )

Hi SCB 22

For the grey lacewing and albino pairing

1.0 grey(sf) blue pallid
x 0.1 blue ino
% from all 1.0
50.0% 1.0 grey(sf) blue pallidIno
50.0% 1.0 blue pallidIno
% from all 0.1
50.0% 0.1 grey(sf) blue pallid
50.0% 0.1 blue pallid

So you see, the 'albino' baby is really not an albino. It is most likely a grey pallidino or blue pallidino, they are very light in colour. once they are fully fledged, in the light you should be able to see hints of blue or grey in the body feathers.

As to albinos, as you say about lutinos(green and ino, they are green series birds), so are albinos(blue and ino, they are blue series birds).

For the other pair, if i am not mistaken(and the male has no splits):

1.0 DD green
x 0.1 pallid cinnamon
% from all 1.0
100.0% 1.0 D green /pallid-cinnamon
% from all 0.1
100.0% 0.1 D green

Hope that helps

Carmen

[SCB 22]

SORRY CARMEN!

I meant a Creamino hen with Grey Lacewing Cock.
One plain white baby, and one grey lacewing.

Could you do the calculations for that pair again please?

My apologies, thanks for the help.

[McmillanBirds]

Lol, its all good, but even with that pairing you won't get any albinos out of them. Here are the results:
  1.0 grey(sf) blue pallid
x 0.1 turquoise(parblue)Blue ino

% from all 1.0
25.0% 1.0 grey(sf) blue pallidIno
25.0% 1.0 blue pallidIno
25.0%1.0 grey(sf) turquoise(parblue)Blue pallidIno
25.0%1.0 turquoise(parblue)Blue pallidIno

% from all 0.1
25.0% 0.1 grey(sf) blue pallid
25.0% 0.1 blue pallid
25.0% 0.1 grey(sf) turquoise(parblue)Blue pallid
25.0% 0.1 turquoise(parblue)Blue pallid

So I still think that you should be able to see a sheen of colour in the sun/light with that little guy.

[Lushen1600]

(sorry if I am sticking my nose in here Lushen )

Carmen

Hi Carmen, you not sticking your nose in here, just wanting to help a forum member, and that's fine with me

Thanks
Lushen

[willowisp71]

Thanks Lushen, for the clarification! (I might just be getting the hang of this genetics thing )

I, too, will be very interested to see how these 2 work out for you. Keep the photo's coming It will be interesting to see the albino when it's a little older, and how the tail and wing feathers develop

[Lushen1600]

Hi guys sorry about not updating this thread, studying for my exams had me busy and now that it is over I can once again concentrate on my ringneck breeding, I do have pics of the 2 chicks, but am not going to put all of them online but what I will do is take out a few more recent pics of the albino and lutino chick later today and share with you guys, they are still with their parents, although I have seen them eat on their own, I do find from time to time they still beg from their mum for food and she obliges and feeds them.

I received my results for my exams and am grateful for passing both my theoretical papers and my practical exam, so that leaves me with my last 2 theorectical papers and 1 practical exam somewhere is May/June 2013 and I'm going to have a short break from studying for 1 year before continuing. So after those last exams, I can concentrate on next years breeding season.

I'm currently planning which birds to pair up for next season, and may put down 8 or 9 pairs for next season, currently have 6 pairs from this season and I have obtained another 1 year old pair but still have to have them surgically sexed to prove that they are a pair, so I will be looking at obtaining another 1 or 2 mature or 1 year old breeding pairs for next season so that I can get myself up to 8 or 9 pairs.

I currently have cage space for 6 pairs as well as 1 walk-in cage for my youngsters, so if I want to get to 9 pairs, I will need to complete a double breeder which I have been putting of for 2 years, as well as make or buy one more suspended cage for my stand. I did sell one wooden cage which I used for my 1 year old lutino cock and turquoise blue pallid hen this year so will replace that will a suspended cage.

I also sold all my conures and bought 4 fischer lovebirds which I need to also have surgically sexed and amm currently busy making a suspended double breeder for them as I am on leave and go back to work on the 2 January 2013.

So for next season I'm gonna change my hens around, but would like some suggestions from you guys as to which hens to pair with which cocks and why would you put them as a pair, don't forget I no longer have Pair 5 as the cock died and I sold the hen

Thanks
Lushen

[willowisp71]

Hi Lushen,

Firstly, congrats on the results of your exams, and enjoy your well-deserved break

I have been reading with great interest the thread "Deep and Emerald" started by Willy, and one issue that seems to keep cropping up there is the availability, or lack there of, of pure green or "wildtype" birds. It got me thinking as to how easy these birds are to come by?

Thinking of this issue and looking at your pairs from this season, (and without scrolling back through the pages of this thread to find out), I got to wondering whether or not your green hen from Pair 4 and green cock from Pair 6 are straight up Greens, or are either of them split to something else? Was this determined at all from the resulting chicks?

I am pondering on the merits of the deliberate breeding of pure "wildtype" birds for the sake of experiment control when trying to determine the workings of other potential new "mutations" such as Emerald, and whether it is a viable option or not? Or are there breeders out there, (both is Oz and SA) that are already doing this?? I got the impression that it was becoming difficult to acquire a green bird that wasn't split to blue, but I could have misinterpreted somewhere along the line

[Lushen1600]

Hi Deb I acquired both the green birds from Pair 4 and Pair 6 as well as the blue cinnamon hen from Pair 6 from one breeder, he purchased the blue cinnamon hen from a local petstore which was handreared and both the green were purchased from another breeder, I put the green seperately as I did not know if they were siblings.

The Green cock paired with the blue cinnamon hen in Pair 6 produced 3 green chicks

The Green hen paired to my handreared greygreen cock laid 3 eggs but all were infertile

Before season started, I got the ring numbers and initials of the both green birds and tried to track down the breeder which was difficult at first, but eventually someone in our bird club told me where he stayed, and one sunday I took a drive to his house and eventually managed to meet with him during the breeding season

On speaking to him about these 2 green birds DDA 10 and DDA 31, he said that they were his chicks from 2010 but he never kept records as to where they came from and couldn't say if they came from the same parents.

He invited me to his back yard to have a look at his birds, and I saw that he had both pied, clearhead fallow and cleartail mutations in both green series and blue series birds.

His pairing were always one visual of a mutation to 1 split.

He did also have 2 green pairs which he used as fosters, and when I ask if the birds could have come from those 2 pairs, once again he said he can't remember and told me that he normally removes the eggs from those green pairs and replaces them with eggs from his other mutations so that his more expensive mutations can double clutch

I have heard of a breeder who bought 2 greens from him as normal greens and paired them together and had a clutch of 5 with 2 green pied chicks.

On the other hand I also know another breeder who bought a pair of green split pieds from him that also had a clutch of 4 with 2 green pied chicks.

So I'm in the predicament as to whether io should pair them together to see what splits they are carrying. I on one hand am doubting that they will be siblings of the same nest as their ring numbers, DDA 10 and DDA 31 are far apart, but on the other hand they could have come from the same parents in the sense that DDA 10 could have been from the first clutch and DDA 31 could have been from the second clutch.

It is in my plan to pair them together next season to see what happens, but I'm not sure if I should.

And as to your question, it is very rare or difficult to get green or even blue ringnecks for that matter that are not split to anything. So if you do come across a pair of greens or blues that only give you green or blue chicks, my advice is to hold onto that pair and some of their chicks as you will need them in a mutation programme

Thanks
Lushen

[Johan S]

I have been reading with great interest the thread "Deep and Emerald" started by Willy, and one issue that seems to keep cropping up there is the availability, or lack there of, of pure green or "wildtype" birds. It got me thinking as to how easy these birds are to come by?

Hi Deb, all I can say is GOOD LUCK! You are going to search long and hard for pure wildtype. I think even wild caught birds sometimes carries recessive mutations. The sad irony is that mutation breeders will keep putting mutations together to the point that it becomes impossible to find pure birds. I stopped breeding lovebirds about 15 years ago, and when I went to look at some birds out of curiosity to see how things developed (about two years ago), I found to my shock that nobody could sell me a pure wildtype bird. After some searching, I got in touch with somebody that said that the only way will be to import wild caught birds, there aren't any 100% sure greens left in the country. Ringnecks takes longer to mature, but they are heading down the same road.

[19266022]

WOW a loud backyard hey hahaha

This years breeding season is almost upon us, birds will go down in a month or 2 months time. I started last years season with only 1 pair which laid 5 eggs first round and hatch 2 chicks, the other 3 eggs had hairline cracks, second round laid 4 eggs and all were infertile.

This is my pairings for this season, please note that I don't have genetic history for all the birds so where you see (UGH) it will stand for "unknown genetic history, so here goes

Pair 1
Blue cock {(UGH) was told this bird came from green cock to green hen} x
Blue Lacewing hen (UGH)

Pair 2
Grey/ino cock (from Grey(df)blue cock x Blue ino hen) x
Grey lacewing hen (from Blue pallid cock x Grey pallid hen)

Pair 3
Lutino cock (from Ino cock x Ino hen) x
Lutino hen {(UGH) sister to blue cock in pair 1 from green cock to green hen}

Pair 4
Greygreen cock (UGH) x
Green hen (UGH)

Pair 5 - last years pair which produced only 2 chicks(1 ino and 1 green)
Green/ino (from Green Cock x Ino hen) x
Lutino hen (UGH)

Pair 6
Green cock (UGH) x
Blue hen (UGH)

Pair 7 - bought this pair on the 24th July 2012
Blue cock (UGH)
Blue Rainbow Hen (UGH)

So these are my pairings for 2012, will just have to wait and see what they produce, not gonna change them around this year as most pairs are already preparing their nestboxes and mating except for pair 3 (the hen does not want to accept the males advances to her, probably cos she is older than him, she is a 2010 female and he is a 2011 male, she is not aggressive to him though, she just chases him away when he come nears her and dances trying to get her attention, as I think he wants to mate with her, but she is not ready or doesn't want to mate with him, not really expecting much from this pair this season so even if they don't produce will let them have a go at it next season as I like lutinos)

Thanks
Lushen

Feel free to comment.

[Lushen1600]

Hi 19266022, not really, ringnecks are not that loud, I did have conures which where quiet vocal, but have now sold all my conures and bought some lovebirds, so its quietened down a bit

So this is just what I have come up with for my planned pairings for the 2013 season in about 6 months time, nothing cast in stone so will probably make some changes

Pair 1 - Blue cock x Blue Pallid hen, will stay the same as last year

Pair 2 - Grey/ino cock x Grey Pallid hen, will stay the same as last year

Pair 3 - Dominant Edge Blue Cinnamon Cock x Blue Cinnamon Hen (taken from pair 6)

Pair 4 - Greygreen cock x (will have to look for a mature normal blue hen)

Pair 5 - Replaced with Greygreen cock/?pied (due to yellow flight on wing)UGH x Grey hen/?pied (due to white flight on wing)UGH also due to the seller saying that they are split pied, but I will only call them split pieds when they produce pied babies for me

Pair 6 - Green cock x Green hen (from pair 4), both these birds came from the same breeder, went to see him again yesterday and when I asked if he hatches the original eggs from his green foster pairs, he said he doesn't as he replaces them with eggs from his more expensive mutations, so it would be interesting to see if these birds that have come from him are holding any recessive splits and hopefully holding the same recessive split so that they could produce a visual

Pair 7 - Lutino Cock x Blue Turquoise Pallid hen, will stay the same as last year

Pair 8 - (looking for a Mature Lutino/blue or Albino Cock) x Lutino/blue hen from pair 3 but they seem to be hard to find mature so will have to wait and see if I get one

So far those are the pairs I intend putting down for the current season, I was going to buy a green pied x green/pied pair at the end of February, but the breeder has told me that he is not selling the birds any longer, but I have seen a blue/pied male x green pied/blue female which seem to interest me, hope they are still available at the end of February and I will take that pair as they are both 2011 birds and will be ready for this coming season

Young birds that I currently have

Chicks from pair 3 (2012)
Albino cock ? Masking dominant edge, will have to be test mated
Lutino/blue hen ? Masking dominant edge, will have to be test mated, also if the father is also visual cinnamon then this hen should be an ino cinnamon so that will also have to be test mated to find out if it is carrying cinnamon

Chicks I got from Carmen, also 2012 chicks
Albino Cock
Pallidino Cock

Also looking foward to 2012 mauve turquoise hen that I have ordered which will be coming in April

So will have to wait and see what happens, hoping to have a good season and a few surprises, time will tell, I apologise for not posting pics of the albino and lutino chick from pair 3 as got caught up in the festive season, I will try and put some up today as I am day off

Thanks
Lushen

[willowisp71]

Hi Lushen,

Thanks for your response regarding your green birds - sorry I haven't responded sooner, been caught up in the festive season with family and friends Yes, it will be interesting to see the outcome if you do decide to mate the 2 greens together next season - from your conversations with the breeder, it does sound more than possible that one or both birds may be split to something else. Time will tell

Hi Johan,

Interesting to hear that finding 'wildtype' birds is becoming more and more difficult. Do you think this is detrimental to the species? Will it become a problem later down the track in regards to strengthening bloodlines etc?

In my search earlier this year for a young hen, I came across at least one breeder who seem to have a green pair that have only ever produced green offspring. But I guess it's possible that one is split to blue, and therefore only ever able to produce green chicks,some split to blue......one would never know unless they test mated both birds with different mates of other mutation I guess