IndianRingNeck.com

Posted: **Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:39 am**

I love your pics, shey!
My violet edged girl has quite light pink feet and nails, is that part of edged mutation or from something else? She is around the same age as your little one.

Posted: **Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:47 pm**

Thanks Claire

If yours has light/pink feet and nails I would lean towards Cinnamon myself--- what were her nest siblings- and the sire? In my opinion, SL Edged birds have lighter feet and nails when compared to normals- but lighter again when Cinnamon is also involved. Do you have a pic?

Posted: **Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:44 pm**

sheyd wrote:Thanks Claire

If yours has light/pink feet and nails I would lean towards Cinnamon myself--- what were her nest siblings- and the sire? In my opinion, SL Edged birds have lighter feet and nails when compared to normals- but lighter again when Cinnamon is also involved. Do you have a pic?

I only saw one sibling, who was violet blue. I haven't seen her parents, she was a fostered egg from elsewhere.

Posted: **Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:07 pm**

They look like Cinnamon feet to me

cinn edge feet:

edge feet:

please forgive their unkempt appearance- both are midway through their moults- and thus aren't looking their best

Posted: **Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:28 pm**

Thanks. They are super light compared to our turquoise blues little tootsies.

Ben? What do you think?

Posted: **Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:33 pm**

As Shey said, in Oz most Edged were paired to Cinnamon so it would not surprise me if cinnamon as well.
However, this is what i call pink feet and your pic shows on my monitor light colored feet, not sure about pinkish.
pic below of grey whwt hen, no cinnamon but that's what i call pink feet

Posted: **Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:56 pm**

Thanks guys.
Ben, you're right her feet aren't as light as your example. Not quite as dark as sheyds especially in the nails.
This might be a dumb question, do nails darken as the bird matures?

Shey, mines moulting too, hence why there was as little of the bird as possible in my photo. She looks pretty manky!

Posted: **Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:50 pm**

she has 'pretty' pink nails

I would go with Cinnamon personally- Cinn in the blue series does seem to have 'pinker' feet. On the nails/feet darkening- it could be possible- though your hen's feet are lighter than my cocks of the same age- I'll say she'll retain her light feet.

Is it possible to get an open wing shot after she finishes her moult? love to see her markings and level of dilution
......
yeah- pretty ratty looking at the moment my two are- the sire finished his moult a few weeks back- he looks great compared to them

Posted: **Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:04 am**

The nails are the only pretty bit at present, I'll try for some photos when she looks nice again.
We have the same situation as you, Nila looks like a supermodel and she's a scruff ball! I can't wait until she replaces her tatty baby tail so we can see what the tips will look like.

Your hen has dark highlights on her beak? Sapphires beak is turning a richer red, but no sign of darkening on the bottom or tip. .. I can't remember when Nilas got the black bits. Do you know what age beaks darken like that?

Posted: **Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:28 am**

This is a Cinnamon Violet hen

Posted: **Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:30 am**

Claire- she has mostly a red upper mandible with a brownish-red lower mandible- in pics it comes out darker looking than what it actually is.

for the juvs- I have noticed that normals of the same age and younger, are getting/have got their black lower beaks- my youngster is starting to develop his now- perhaps the edged birds take longer? Ben- how about an update on yours??? (including a wing spread)

edit to add pic

Posted: **Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:00 am**

Ben, that don't look at all like my girl in the feather tones, but it's a photo. I've got a heap of photos of one bird that all look different. Cinnamon violets that I've seen in the flesh don't have such a vibrant blue/violet hue as Saph.
This is about what my eye was seeing at the time I was videoing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1r-0BrO57bs It was around midday, her colour is heavily affected by lighting conditions. I think we could use her as a uv meter. The other videos I've uploaded she ls way more grey in artificial light.
I think the easiest solution would be for you and your lovely wife to come visit us and explain what my bird is and the factors that lead to that conclusion

we live near a nice beach and there's this really funny street performer lady who does a great contortion show most evenings.

Sheyd, I'll be watching her beak for signs of darkening over the next few months then.
What should I be reading so I don't need to ask you guys a hundred dumb questions? Best book recommendation?

Posted: **Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:30 am**

Shey,

Watch out for the "mailman" I sent you a bunch of .... feathers

.
I no longer have the young edged violet i bred
it is now in the southern state.
Clair's bird does not carry cinnamon IMO, what i'm interested to find out in the next seasons if our edged is mixed with s-thin else...

Funny thing is, my turq edged is a better looking bird then my pieds without turq. and similar to turq pieds.

Clair,
Watch out for the "mailman"

we'll send you Nila's paintings in the next days.
The videos came out bad ..

I entrusted my boys to doit... i give you a quick "audio" what they were saying while filming.
"Man, what if someone steals the laptop?"

Kids....
Thanks for the invite! we might take you up on that offer one of these days.
Best book recommendation?
Just ask here ;)

Posted: **Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:22 pm**

Lmao! Bummer about the video. Did you get any photos? I'd like to get Dave to put one up on Nilas page.
Just let us know if you're heading up this way so I can bake a cake and check Sapphires colour for the uv index and burn times at the beach.

If her beak doesn't change soon I'll be back on here with more silly questions.

Posted: **Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:23 pm**

InTheAir wrote:Best book recommendation?

Heard Deon Smith's book is good- as well as Basstians and Terry Martin's.

I don't own any- better to come and learn from everyone here- books are easily outdated when new info comes to light.

Posted: **Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:34 pm**

Ring0Neck wrote:
Shey,

I no longer have the young edged violet i bred
it is now in the southern state.

*sad face* did you get an open wing shot before he went?

what i'm interested to find out in the next seasons if our edged is mixed with s-thin else...

by 'our' do you mean Australia's Edged- or yours? lol

Thanks for the feathers- I'll post them once they get here

Posted: **Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:08 pm**

sheyd wrote:
InTheAir wrote:Best book recommendation?
Heard Deon Smith's book is good- as well as Basstians and Terry Martin's.

....

Deon's book is available on Chris's website to purchase.
I got the USB version & I strongly recommend it and it has plenty pics to get the points across nicely.

Posted: **Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:24 am**

InTheAir wrote:Best book recommendation?

order best to is ok:

Terry Martin (for beginner and professionals) => Deon Smith (more for professionals) => Bastiaan 2nd book (for beginner and as picture reference)

Posted: **Wed Jan 15, 2014 6:08 pm**

Thanks for the book tips guys. What about A guide to Asiatic Parrots in Australia?
I think I've seen the Terry Martin book in stores here, so I think I'll get that one up first.

Shey, alas no open wing shots, but the little terror did stay still long enough today to get a pic from behind that kind of shows her markings.

Posted: **Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:38 am**

NG sent me an recent pic the blue edged he got off me and i thought i share the pic as it is a beaut.

Posted: **Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:10 am**

I agree! nice bird- I joked with Nigel that you were silly for getting rid of that one lol! ps- you were right- the light head (that he had) darkened up to normal colouring- learn something new everyday

Posted: **Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:14 am**

Most birds i let go i feel silly that i did

Unfortunately, can't keep them all

Next week, 4 going out (silly me) - and 5 come in.

Posted: **Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:42 am**

Yeah, that's a great bird!

Posted: **Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:39 am**

Ring0Neck wrote:NG sent me an recent pic the blue edged he got off me and i thought i share the pic as it is a beaut.

So looks like a homozyguos SL Edged blue. Right? And cinnamon as well because of the brownish quills.

thx

Posted: **Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:01 pm**

Hi Madas, yes he's believed to be homozygous
.......

For interests sake, here's what he looked like before maturity-

Ring0Neck wrote:NG sent me an recent pic the blue edged he got off me and i thought i share the pic as it is a beaut.

Posted: **Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:11 pm**

So looks like a homozyguos SL Edged blue. Right? And cinnamon as well because of the brownish quills.

Madas,
Spot on, that's what i think he is.

Posted: **Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:55 pm**

Hi Ben & Madas

I agree he is a df sl edged but his feet is to dark to be a cinnamon

Tienie

Posted: **Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:05 pm**

Carr.birds wrote:Hi Ben & Madas

I agree he is a df sl edged but his feet is to dark to be a cinnamon

Tienie

Ah oh. But why is the brid showing brownish quills? Is it typical for a homozyguos SL Edged?

thx for input.

Posted: **Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:05 am**

My thoughts: being a Homozygot edged could overide the cinnamon effect on feet coloring!?

Posted: **Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:23 am**

This would be a Homozygous (DF) Edged Blue

Posted: **Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:40 am**

Carr.birds wrote: but his feet is to dark to be a cinnamon

So what is more important the color of the feet or the color of the nails (the horn parts)???
If the nails are brown could we then conclude it's a cinnamon???

thx

Posted: **Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:59 am**

Could also be Misty instead of Cinnamon?!

Posted: **Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:20 am**

Ring0Neck wrote:Could also be Misty instead of Cinnamon?!

I don't think that is it, either. Misty tends to take very diluted blue and make it a greyish/silver colour. This bird, even in the very diluted back region, shows a vibrant blue colour.

I'm with Tienie on this one, homozygous edged bird without cinnamon.

Posted: **Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:47 pm**

Tienie- initially I thought my young ef edged cock was split Cinnamon- now I think he is Cinnamon visually- what do you think?

taken today- Wildtype sire, youngster below

(sorry not the best, taken with phone)

Appreciate your thoughts

Posted: **Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:18 am**

i am new here and i dont know how to set avater although i`ve tried alot i`ve also search it at FAQs but no answer would you pllz help me how to get my pics when i treid there was`nt browes button there and cannot send image to any one ppppppppplllllllllllllllllllllllllllzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz help plz how do ou do that help plz

Posted: **Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:22 am**

barkha alisha wrote:i am new here and i dont know how to set avater although i`ve tried alot i`ve also search it at FAQs but no answer would you pllz help me how to get my pics when i treid there was`nt browes button there and cannot send image to any one ppppppppplllllllllllllllllllllllllllzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz help plz how do ou do that help plz

Klick here http://www.indianringneck.com/forum/ucp.php?i=164. On the left side is a link called "Edit avatar"

Posted: **Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:00 am**

Shey

Nice light colour for a cock. Can't see feet that great but would say SL Edged-cinnamon

Tienie

Posted: **Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:01 pm**

Thanks Tienie

I couldn't figure out why he was so light- I had previously dismissed the idea of him being a visual Cinnamon as I thought sf SL Edged Cinnamon's would have brown feather shafts and not dark grey (almost black) shafts like he does.

http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47 ... r3qhc4.jpg
pictured with his SL Edged Cinnamon dam. Another phone pic- apologies for the quality.

.........
better quality pics of feet are pictured a few posts above- they are darker slightly than his dams, and with darker nails.

Posted: **Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:12 pm**

Hi All
This photo was sent to me by a friend that started working with a line of CH Fallows awhile ago and this year being her first breeding season produced 4 babies in the nest, two of which are normal, one we believe to be a SL Edged, the fourth one we believe to be an SL Edged CH Fallow, however viewing some other phenotypes on this forum we are starting to wonder whether it is SL Edged or Opaline, as this young one had pure white down and clear feet as a baby (only 1 of the 4). The bird we are calling the progenitor of this line is a special CH Fallow that is not related in anyway to the the normal family of CH Fallows.
Cheers
Paul

Posted: **Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:31 pm**

Hi Paul, do you have pictures of the other offspring and the parents?

From your picture, the tail has the same shade of blue as the body, so I don't think opaline (where tail dilution occurs) is involved. I also don't see any edging (patchy melanin reduction) in the tail feather, nor any discolouration (lightening from black to dark grey/brown all the way to beige for females) in the rachis. Pink/clear feet are normal for fallows and also doesn't indicate a combination. My guess would have been a blue CHF and the picture was taken with a flash. Am I missing a key indicator (haven't had my morning coffee yet)?

Posted: **Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:02 pm**

Johan S wrote:Hi Paul, do you have pictures of the other offspring and the parents?

From your picture, the tail has the same shade of blue as the body, so I don't think opaline (where tail dilution occurs) is involved. I also don't see any edging (patchy melanin reduction) in the tail feather, nor any discolouration (lightening from black to dark grey/brown all the way to beige for females) in the rachis. Pink/clear feet are normal for fallows and also doesn't indicate a combination. My guess would have been a blue CHF and the picture was taken with a flash. Am I missing a key indicator (haven't had my morning coffee yet)?

fallows are having red eyes. So does the bird have red eyes??? Furthermore CHF are having a translucent iris which you can clearly see in the pic.
And the main flights showing some kind of edging. But it could also be the pic.

Posted: **Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:01 am**

Madas, we must be looking at different pics?

That bird has a typical CHF eye on my screen, dark red with no iris (like a youngster). It has pink feet and a red lower mandible. I stand by what I said, that is a blue CHF. Possibly something else combined, but I'm missing clear indicators for a combination.

Paul, do you have more pics?

Posted: **Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:03 am**

Johan the reason we suspect opaline in the mix is the original cock CH (progenitor) was rumoured to have been split opaline and having viewed a photo posted by Ben of one of Carr birds ref:http://parakeet.me/irn/f/edge/SL%20Edge ... mother.jpg we thought the resemblance to our subject bird to close to dismiss this possibility there has been a CH blue cock with white flights produced in this family this bird is a full coloured adult and is the father to the mother of these birds that appears in the photo with her young these birds are the product of a very tight gene pool and the father to these young is a blue split CH and is out of the original progenitor the attached photo's are natural light no flash.Q- is it a requirement of the sl edge mutation to have dilute or faded rachis in the flight feathers ? Note the other sibling showing sl edge is a cock bird.Both sl edged birds have been shown with their wing spread these birds although both blue are very different body hue to each other and to their mother.

Posted: **Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:22 am**

Johan S wrote:Madas, we must be looking at different pics? That bird has a typical CHF eye on my screen, dark red with no iris (like a youngster). It has pink feet and a red lower mandible. I stand by what I said, that is a blue CHF. Possibly something else combined, but I'm missing clear indicators for a combination.

Paul, do you have more pics?

Hi haven't said you are wrong.

You wrote:

Johan S wrote: Am I missing a key indicator (haven't had my morning coffee yet)?

The red eyes and the "no iris" are the missing key indicators.

Btw: the iris is not missing it is translucent resp. transparent. ;)

regards.

madas

Posted: **Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:31 am**

Paul, thanks for the pics. When the entire family is shown, one can very clearly see why you believe there is something different to these birds. I agree that there is something else at play. I don't believe it is edged or opaline, though. When one look at the young and possibilities, I'm inclined to believe the original bird (progenitor) was split for cinnamon, not opaline. To me, one of the young looks like a blue cinnamon. And of course, the red eyes (more ruby, less pink like ino) of the chicks would tend to confuse the matter as well. I think that when one tries to pick out two mutations that are the closest to one another, cinnamon and edged would be two very good contenders. Cinnamon birds also often tend to show that very small dilution around the rachis in the flight feathers. In the picture of the mother and 2 babies, one also notices a large amount of fading between the feathers of the hen and the offspring. This is also typical of cinnamon. Of course, I can only offer an opinion based on pictures. You guys with access to the birds will ultimately be able to consider the opinion and work with it as a possibility or dismiss it with motivation.

Madas, I now see the confusion. I meant to say indicators of a combination, not of CHF. I thought the sentence before the quoted one would clear up the CHF issue.

Now here is a spanner to throw in the works. And probably too radical to be the case here, but it's fun to play. What would a cinnamon misty look like? My bet, very close to the chick on the left of the family shot with the mother and 4 babies. The effect would be similar with CHF, which I sometimes think of as a 'smokey' fallow.

Posted: **Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:07 pm**

molossus wrote: if you ask well enough I will let you go home with a Misty blue chick this weekend.

@Johan: don't forget your camera. And take a lot of nice pics (Dhani, Emerald Dom. pieds and so on). ;)

Posted: **Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:53 pm**

Forum Members

The mother isn't just a blue CHF. Her flight is to light. Imo can be one of 3 options SL Edged CHF blue or Cinnamon CHF blue or Misty CHF blue. If the cock isn't split cinnamon, cinnamon will be ruled out and the light CHF babiy's flights look different compared to cinnamon. If the "light CHF and edged" babies are both cocks I would say Edged is involved. If the babies are both sexes I would go for Misty and that will be my choice.

Will post a pic of a Dblue SL Edged CHF 2013 baby and 2012 ?Deep or Dblue SL Edged CHF later this week, unfortunately not sexed.

Tienie

Posted: **Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:59 pm**

molossus wrote:if you ask well enough I will let you go home with a Misty blue chick this weekend.

That would be wonderful, thank you!

I'll ask plenty nicely in person.

madas wrote:@Johan: don't forget your camera. And take a lot of nice pics (Dhani, Emerald Dom. pieds and so on). ;)

Madas, I'll ask my brother in law for his camera. I don't own a nice one.

Posted: **Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:36 am**

molossus wrote:Jo words mean nothin oumaat. a nice Kalahari ribrack(smoked en alles) or that damned elusive rump stake (texan no less) ....
now thats asking ,,, real nicely.

Now there is a suggestion!

Posted: **Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:48 pm**

Tienie
Thankyou for your input there are several cocks that have been produced in this line, 6 of which have sired clutches of babies there has been several CHF produced as well as normals (splits) none of these young have been cinnamon I would say we can rule this out. Both the edged young in the photo's are one hen and one cock so your choice is misty unfortunately I personally know very little about misty and that being the case both the owner of the birds and myself will appreciate all the information you can provide.

The following photo's 1)progenitor 2)father of mother 3)Open wing of brother to CHF.

Cheers
Paul

IndianRingNeck.com

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