Hello everyone! and i need your help with a serious IRN prob
Moderator: Mods
Hello everyone! and i need your help with a serious IRN prob
Hello everyone, My name is Stephanie.. I have a 4 year old cockatiel, a 2 year old Senegal and 1 1/2 year old IRN. I am having problems with my IRN... actually since the day I picked her up from the breeder.. heres the short story.. lol.. So I bought ziggy from a home breeder( I don't know how well of a breeder she was.. I couldn't even see the parents) and I Was told this bird was the only nice one and the others were alittle aggressive. So I bought her after weaning.. It must of been just a week I had her and I seen she had aggressive problems. So I did my hw and figured she must be starting to bluff. But something in my gut said you should bring her back she wont be a nice bird.. but I didn't. Now I have tried working with her.. She knows up.. but she is a scared bird. VERY cage territorial. and if she doesn't see her cage she gets super afraid. I understand the cage is her comfort. In the cage she will bite you. so we let her come out when she wants and usually we can get her to go up if she goes on top of the cage.. when shes on the door she runs back in. Now here is the 2nd problem.. Last week of June I had started my Vet tech school and wasn't allowed to bring my birds. So my family agreed to watch them. MY friend knows birds well and has birds he agreed to keep ziggy. I did a trial before I left.. he gave her back a week after and said he tried but she bite everyone hard to bleed. (I understand a week is not a long trial time) But my sisters are afraid of her so that's y I was going to try and find a better home. Now my sisters learned to accept her..Im asking about my birds and they keep me updated. What can I tell them to do to kind of put less stress on Ziggy and work with her aggression? BTW all my birds hate each other. Ziggy will actually climb to my tiel cage and try to get her through the bars. ( I bought her as a baby thinking she can bond with my tiel but the first day.. she charged at her and few times after that). And my Senegal is just as bird aggressive with Ziggy.. When birds are out on cages we cant leave the room ... they might kill each other. Thank you and sorry for long story. Hope I get some help!
Re: Hello everyone! and i need your help with a serious IRN
Hi Stephanie,
There's a lot of information in your post. Let me see if I can pick through it.....
*You have these three birds and they are all being kept in your family's home right now while you are living someplace else.
*These birds are aggressive towards each other.
*Your Ringneck is very territorial about her cage and will bite from inside it.
*Your Ringneck might step up from the top of the cage.
*Your Ringneck is uncomfortable out of the cage.
*Your Ringneck bites everyone hard so they bleed.
*You Ringneck has always been a scared bird who bites.
Right off the cuff, it sounds to me like your Ringneck has not ever become comfortable with humans. I doubt that you have a "not nice", mean, or unnaturally aggressive bird. As you know, Ringnecks are significantly different in personality from Senegals. (I don't know all that much about Cockatiels, so I can't speak about that.) They are notoriously timid about hands, and very cautious.
My gut says you all need to flush your previous experiences and notions about this bird and start fresh. You will all (including the bird) need to learn a new way of relating to each other. I think you might put the cage territoriality on the back burner for now, although rearranging the interior and swapping some of the familiar items for new and unfamiliar ones might help.
You say she will step up but not if she steps to the hand or a perch. If it's the hand, you can try to continue having her do that, and distract from the bite. You can also switch her to stepping onto a small perch instead. If she's always biting the hand, and it sounds like she is, you are pushing her past her comfort level. Don't do that.
You don't mention if the bird is clipped or not. If clipped, I would like to see you let the wing feathers grow in. If the bird has the option of flying away she may be more inclined to do that than to bite. As the wings grow in you can work on discovering what food will be the most effective lure, and you can use that to get her back into the cage if needed, though with her loving her cage so much, that may not be an issue.
Identify her most favourite treats, and use them for hand feeding through the bars of the cage. Simply hold your fingers far enough away so she cannot reach them for a bite. Use pieces large enough so she can grab them, but small enough so she has to come right back for more. At the same time, make this the only way she can get those favourite foods. Large seeds (sunflower, safflower), various nuts, and various fruits are the most likely candidates for favourite food. Just pick two or three and don't restrict the rest, which is to say, if apple is the favourite, don't restrict the other fruits, just the apple. My bird's favourite thing on the planet right now is all-natural, additive-free peanut butter. You might want to try an actual bit of peanut, since you might get bitten using something soft and shapeless like a paste.
You should also get the bird to spend time on a separate perch, a play gym, or whatever. It could be as simple as a T-stand, but make it at least five feet high. People may tell you this makes the bird aggressive (not a significant factor, since she already is) because she will be confident up there, but confidence is what your bird needs. She also needs to get away from that cage so she can deal with humans without that cage issue confusing the matter. Get her on the separate perch and treat her a lot.
If you can use these methods to get the bird confidently taking food from the hand, you will have unlocked the magic door. Make sure to move the hand smoothly out of the way, or use an innocuous (from the bird's point of view) item to block the bite. In this way, your bird will practice (1) taking food from the hand and (2) not biting the hand at the same time. Blocking items can be toys, the perch, a larger bit of food, anything that does not concern the bird.
At the same time, I have to point out, every human being must take care to NOT overstep the bounds of the bird's comfort level. This means do not even try to touch the bird unless you must do so to save it from certain physical injury or loss. Don't even put out a finger as if to touch the bird. Fingers right now are only for providing food. (Unless comfortably stepping up, as above.) Also refrain from frightening activities, such as waving broomsticks or shaking out blankets nearby, you get the idea.
With regard to the birds attacking each other, Do Not Allow Them This Opportunity. You wouldn't put a hamster down to play with a cat, would you? Don't mingle your birds, and either stand by to keep them off each other's cages, or cover the "victim's" cage when the other bird is out.
My suggestions will not solve all your bird related problems, to be sure, but I believe you can all get pointed in the right direction this way. You might want to consult your family and see who has the most fondness for the bird, and ask that person to work on this project for you while you are away. It might be helpful to put it this way: "My bird really needs help. Would you please take care of her while I'm away? Will you save her from this crippling fear she has? She needs you!" Of course, you might run a small risk of that family member wanting to be the bird's new owner, but if that's what it takes, you might consider it.
Best wishes!
-MissK
There's a lot of information in your post. Let me see if I can pick through it.....
*You have these three birds and they are all being kept in your family's home right now while you are living someplace else.
*These birds are aggressive towards each other.
*Your Ringneck is very territorial about her cage and will bite from inside it.
*Your Ringneck might step up from the top of the cage.
*Your Ringneck is uncomfortable out of the cage.
*Your Ringneck bites everyone hard so they bleed.
*You Ringneck has always been a scared bird who bites.
Right off the cuff, it sounds to me like your Ringneck has not ever become comfortable with humans. I doubt that you have a "not nice", mean, or unnaturally aggressive bird. As you know, Ringnecks are significantly different in personality from Senegals. (I don't know all that much about Cockatiels, so I can't speak about that.) They are notoriously timid about hands, and very cautious.
My gut says you all need to flush your previous experiences and notions about this bird and start fresh. You will all (including the bird) need to learn a new way of relating to each other. I think you might put the cage territoriality on the back burner for now, although rearranging the interior and swapping some of the familiar items for new and unfamiliar ones might help.
You say she will step up but not if she steps to the hand or a perch. If it's the hand, you can try to continue having her do that, and distract from the bite. You can also switch her to stepping onto a small perch instead. If she's always biting the hand, and it sounds like she is, you are pushing her past her comfort level. Don't do that.
You don't mention if the bird is clipped or not. If clipped, I would like to see you let the wing feathers grow in. If the bird has the option of flying away she may be more inclined to do that than to bite. As the wings grow in you can work on discovering what food will be the most effective lure, and you can use that to get her back into the cage if needed, though with her loving her cage so much, that may not be an issue.
Identify her most favourite treats, and use them for hand feeding through the bars of the cage. Simply hold your fingers far enough away so she cannot reach them for a bite. Use pieces large enough so she can grab them, but small enough so she has to come right back for more. At the same time, make this the only way she can get those favourite foods. Large seeds (sunflower, safflower), various nuts, and various fruits are the most likely candidates for favourite food. Just pick two or three and don't restrict the rest, which is to say, if apple is the favourite, don't restrict the other fruits, just the apple. My bird's favourite thing on the planet right now is all-natural, additive-free peanut butter. You might want to try an actual bit of peanut, since you might get bitten using something soft and shapeless like a paste.
You should also get the bird to spend time on a separate perch, a play gym, or whatever. It could be as simple as a T-stand, but make it at least five feet high. People may tell you this makes the bird aggressive (not a significant factor, since she already is) because she will be confident up there, but confidence is what your bird needs. She also needs to get away from that cage so she can deal with humans without that cage issue confusing the matter. Get her on the separate perch and treat her a lot.
If you can use these methods to get the bird confidently taking food from the hand, you will have unlocked the magic door. Make sure to move the hand smoothly out of the way, or use an innocuous (from the bird's point of view) item to block the bite. In this way, your bird will practice (1) taking food from the hand and (2) not biting the hand at the same time. Blocking items can be toys, the perch, a larger bit of food, anything that does not concern the bird.
At the same time, I have to point out, every human being must take care to NOT overstep the bounds of the bird's comfort level. This means do not even try to touch the bird unless you must do so to save it from certain physical injury or loss. Don't even put out a finger as if to touch the bird. Fingers right now are only for providing food. (Unless comfortably stepping up, as above.) Also refrain from frightening activities, such as waving broomsticks or shaking out blankets nearby, you get the idea.
With regard to the birds attacking each other, Do Not Allow Them This Opportunity. You wouldn't put a hamster down to play with a cat, would you? Don't mingle your birds, and either stand by to keep them off each other's cages, or cover the "victim's" cage when the other bird is out.
My suggestions will not solve all your bird related problems, to be sure, but I believe you can all get pointed in the right direction this way. You might want to consult your family and see who has the most fondness for the bird, and ask that person to work on this project for you while you are away. It might be helpful to put it this way: "My bird really needs help. Would you please take care of her while I'm away? Will you save her from this crippling fear she has? She needs you!" Of course, you might run a small risk of that family member wanting to be the bird's new owner, but if that's what it takes, you might consider it.
Best wishes!
-MissK
-MissK
Re: Hello everyone! and i need your help with a serious IRN
I just read everything you replied and it sounds like a plan! Im going to speak to my younger sister who has been taking care of my birds more than everyone else. The problem is to actually get her away from the cage without her flying back to it and running in. If my sister can even get her to perch somewhere else...( should I take her to the next room to perch and have free time so she cant see the cage?) and thank you for ur time !
Re: Hello everyone! and i need your help with a serious IRN
Stephanie,
I cannot tell you how delighted I was to read that your bird flies back to her cage! This made me so happy because being flighted means she has the use of her main self-defense mechanism. Very good for confidence building! Good for you!
The little darling sounds like she's cage bound. Worse than the barn-sour horse, the cage bound bird actually fears being outside the cage, but she can learn to overcome this unnatural state. She should probably not be removed from the cage, but lured out instead, and the door left open for her option to return. Use the best lure. Get your stand and place it in the room far away from the cage to start. It may be scary! You can inch it closer to the cage over the course of two weeks or so, until it is actually touching the cage. Once the bird is confident getting onto it, then you can reverse the process and start inching it away, again over a long period of time..
If it were me, I would start letting her practice following a lure on the inside of the cage. With the door shut, her on the inside, use the lure to lead her around the cage. Next step open the door and repeat. Next step reach inside with the lure and get her to follow it. When that is very tight, lure her to come out the door. It may take some time. Then lure her around on the outside wall/roof of the cage. Once she is at that step comfortably, then you can lure her onto the stand. Once she is on the stand, make that your main point of interaction.
****NOTE**** When the bird successfully follows the lure, SHE GETS THE TREAT. Small point, but important. Even if the bird already has some of the lure following skills I outlined here, go through the motions anyway. Thus you will identify any weak spots, and you will also get her in the frame of mind for working on these skills. When you get to a spot where she needs to learn or practice, stay on that point until she masters it well. If you rush the bird the behaviour will fall apart later at a bad time. (Is there ever a good time for behaviour to fall apart?!) I strongly suggest you/she go through every step, even just once, each day as you/she come to work with the bird.
Others may disagree with me, but I do not think you should take the bird out of the room before she is ready. To do so would be to force her to face her fears. We might, if we were inconsiderate, do that to our human friends, but birds are not human and they don't work the same way. Sure, yeah, if the bird were familiar with you, and you became suddenly the ONLY familiar thing around, it could possibly lead the bird to cling to you. But this would be an artificially induced closeness, not likely to persist when you went back to normal, AND a downright mean thing to do. I wouldn't.
On that note, strive to identify any area where a human might be forcing the bird to accept something, and stop doing that. This would include "making" her do or accept anything she fears by removing her choices. There is a fine line to observe when manipulating the choices to your advantage, and it's not always bad. An OK example would be raising your arm when the bird is on it, so she will choose staying on the arm over running to the shoulder. A not-OK example would be picking up a bird who refused to leave the cage and taking her out anyway.
I certainly hope you will be able to visit your birds on weekends, and join your sister in her exercises with your Ringneck. That would be the right and smart thing to do. Might not be a bad idea to toss your sister some thank-you gifts from time to time, too. I don't know what your relationship is, but while this is going on, you are going to owe her Big Time. I wish you both the best of luck.
-MissK
PS: See if you can get her to join the forum!
I cannot tell you how delighted I was to read that your bird flies back to her cage! This made me so happy because being flighted means she has the use of her main self-defense mechanism. Very good for confidence building! Good for you!
The little darling sounds like she's cage bound. Worse than the barn-sour horse, the cage bound bird actually fears being outside the cage, but she can learn to overcome this unnatural state. She should probably not be removed from the cage, but lured out instead, and the door left open for her option to return. Use the best lure. Get your stand and place it in the room far away from the cage to start. It may be scary! You can inch it closer to the cage over the course of two weeks or so, until it is actually touching the cage. Once the bird is confident getting onto it, then you can reverse the process and start inching it away, again over a long period of time..
If it were me, I would start letting her practice following a lure on the inside of the cage. With the door shut, her on the inside, use the lure to lead her around the cage. Next step open the door and repeat. Next step reach inside with the lure and get her to follow it. When that is very tight, lure her to come out the door. It may take some time. Then lure her around on the outside wall/roof of the cage. Once she is at that step comfortably, then you can lure her onto the stand. Once she is on the stand, make that your main point of interaction.
****NOTE**** When the bird successfully follows the lure, SHE GETS THE TREAT. Small point, but important. Even if the bird already has some of the lure following skills I outlined here, go through the motions anyway. Thus you will identify any weak spots, and you will also get her in the frame of mind for working on these skills. When you get to a spot where she needs to learn or practice, stay on that point until she masters it well. If you rush the bird the behaviour will fall apart later at a bad time. (Is there ever a good time for behaviour to fall apart?!) I strongly suggest you/she go through every step, even just once, each day as you/she come to work with the bird.
Others may disagree with me, but I do not think you should take the bird out of the room before she is ready. To do so would be to force her to face her fears. We might, if we were inconsiderate, do that to our human friends, but birds are not human and they don't work the same way. Sure, yeah, if the bird were familiar with you, and you became suddenly the ONLY familiar thing around, it could possibly lead the bird to cling to you. But this would be an artificially induced closeness, not likely to persist when you went back to normal, AND a downright mean thing to do. I wouldn't.
On that note, strive to identify any area where a human might be forcing the bird to accept something, and stop doing that. This would include "making" her do or accept anything she fears by removing her choices. There is a fine line to observe when manipulating the choices to your advantage, and it's not always bad. An OK example would be raising your arm when the bird is on it, so she will choose staying on the arm over running to the shoulder. A not-OK example would be picking up a bird who refused to leave the cage and taking her out anyway.
I certainly hope you will be able to visit your birds on weekends, and join your sister in her exercises with your Ringneck. That would be the right and smart thing to do. Might not be a bad idea to toss your sister some thank-you gifts from time to time, too. I don't know what your relationship is, but while this is going on, you are going to owe her Big Time. I wish you both the best of luck.
-MissK
PS: See if you can get her to join the forum!
-MissK
Re: Hello everyone! and i need your help with a serious IRN
Hi ziggysmom-sounds like you have your hands full, I can fully sympathise as I am totally consumed with my baby and have been for weeks!
All I can say is MissK is full of great advice and ideas, she has suggested things to me that I would never have thought and so have the others on here so it definitely helps to get other perspectives on our problems and its right what they say-it helps if you can think like a bird lol!
I'm also afraid of my IRN becoming cage bound as he is so scared but I'm determined to beat this thing with the utmost patience and a LOT of time... I have a few holidays coming up to take and just thought of leaving him a week at a time is stressing me out to the point of crying. But you sound such a caring and worried owner that I'm sure your dedication to your IRN will result in positive things for you both.
Best of luck, Keep on posting. Loo
All I can say is MissK is full of great advice and ideas, she has suggested things to me that I would never have thought and so have the others on here so it definitely helps to get other perspectives on our problems and its right what they say-it helps if you can think like a bird lol!
I'm also afraid of my IRN becoming cage bound as he is so scared but I'm determined to beat this thing with the utmost patience and a LOT of time... I have a few holidays coming up to take and just thought of leaving him a week at a time is stressing me out to the point of crying. But you sound such a caring and worried owner that I'm sure your dedication to your IRN will result in positive things for you both.
Best of luck, Keep on posting. Loo
Loo
-
Little Buttercup
- Posts: 345
- Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:03 am
Re: Hello everyone! and i need your help with a serious IRN
Hi, welcome. Wishing you lots of luck with your birds. I have a ringneck,Kiwi and cockatiel, Coco, and thank God they don't hate each other, in fact Kiwi made an effort to get Coco to like him! Now Coco is quite used to him and isn't as scared for Kiwi as he was when Kiwi just came.
Ash
Ash