Exorcist Bird ! Bluffing??

[Jolz1987]

Help is needed .?!

My baby indian ring neck has turned into the exorcist.! Bird is about 8 months old. I raised and weaned him/her in the later stages of hand feeding, all was going great, had an amazing bond, was extremely friendly, loved time out of the cage inside with everyone and was a real character that made everyone smile and laugh and the funny things he dose

Up until about 5 days ago, all was fine i put him in is outside cage for the day, he was singing and loving the sun shine
Then that night he flipped and went mental and hasn't been the same since, he is attacking my face flying at me eyes pinning neck arched and wings out. He has attacked both hands,
It isn't a small nibble either he latches on very aggressively. I aproach his cage with caution talking in a soothing voice trying to re assure him everything is ok, all seems to be going well then the attack starts all over again.

nothing has changed in or around the home, nore have i changed my apearance in any way.

Just wondering why this would be and if there is anything I can do to help the situation as I feel I have done something wrong to upset him.

Thank you in advance for any help given .

[Ring0Neck]

Hi,

Depending where you are in the world, one option could be Excessive production of sexual hormones is often the cause of this sort of behavior.

If the breeding season is approaching and if this is the case your bird is most likely a hen.
Here's a paragarph from a website see below:

During breeding season, the indian ringneck changes its tune and becomes very physically affectionate, although not in a good way. They become reactive to the hormones in their system and DEMAND your attention. It must be understood by the owner that the advances are of a sexual nature, and when you don’t respond appropriately (to their way of thinking,) they become offended and nippy.

http://www.birdtricks.com/indian-ringneck-parrot.html

[Jolz1987]

Hi,
thank you for the information. He/She is only 8 months old would it not be to soon to be showing that kind of behaviour ?
we are in Perth Western Australia .

the other thing is it isnt just a little Nip its a full on attack untill blood is drawn, if he/she is flying at me he/she will keep going and going and going at my face, squarquing and screaming .

bit of a worrie

[Ring0Neck]

would it not be to soon to be showing that kind of behaviour ?

No it's not.
A high % of 1 y old hens will breed in the first year.
Breeding season in OZ is just starting.

[Jolz1987]

interesting !!

so this could explaine the agression towards me and the nastyness
is there any idea how we can over come this?

thank you

[Ring0Neck]

I'm not an expert with pets bahaviour etc..
I am a breeder so hopefully other forumates will help you out with that.
All the best.


83IV

[InTheAir]

Hi jolz,

Ugh, that sounds like a terrible experience!

I'm only going on theoretical knowledge, but there are a lot of factors are linked to behaviour.

A run down of your birds' diet, housing, and sleep patterns will help the more experienced bird keepers answer your question.

Regards,

Claire

[Jolz1987]

Thanks Claire will do !

Housing - during the day bird has a large 2mtre x 1.8mtre cage
Decked out with a rope ring swing wooden colored toys that get changed on a regular basis, there is also a toy that we fill with peanuts that he/she has to work to get the peanut out. A plastic bird ball a ladder and an assortment of branches /pearchs.
He/she is generally positioned to get a little bit of morning sun but not on the direct heat of the Australian sun !!
At night time I like to bring bird in for a few hours of free range flying and playing with me. Chatting away and walking around on the floor. Once we are all ready for bed bird goes into a smaller cage for the night to avoid the extreme cold of the nights.

Food wise bird gets fresh fruit and veg every day
Generally a corn cob a half a apple some grapes in the morning in the evening bird absolutely loves mash potato, mango, peaches

Also loves capsicum, cucumber, tomato, mushroom, peas, beans ect ect
There is always fresh seed but bird has never been keen on the nectar pellets .
A hand full of nuts each day aswell.

It's heart breaking seeing bird go thought what ever it is its going through. And I feel like I have done something to upset him/her

I have noticed tonight that when i got bird out to come inside he/she went into hiding ontop of the dishwasher . A little gap of about 10cm between the bench and the dishwasher. When we approach the dishwasher that is when the extre attack starts .

[InTheAir]

Hey jolz,

Please don't take her behaviour personally, it's just bird instinct. It sounds like you provide her with a wonderful life.

Hiding in a small place and charging is typical female nesting behaviour.

The strategies for reducing these behaviours in pets include:
Don't allow her access to any hidey holes, try to block that gap some how, masking tape it up or something.

Reduce the amount of rich food she is getting. It sounds like she has a very rich diet. Try to convert her from seed to pellets, my avian vet recommends Roudybush.
Give her more veges and less fruit, especially lots of green leafy ones.
A peanut in the foraging toy is ok, but she doesn't need a handful.
Feed less sugary foods like corn.
I'm not 100% sure if this is a contributing factor, but I have read that feeding mashed foods may encourage the breeding instinct (part of courtship for ringnecks is regurgitating to feed the mate).

You can artificially modify the light cycle, but I haven't looked into that much yet so I have no advise.

I don't know if this is very relevant to your situation, as if she charges you she is probably not looking at you as a mate, but avoid giving her any ringneck come ons http://www.rationalparrot.com/tease.html

I just realised I am running late so I have to cut this short, and skip the proof reading. I hope its a bit helpful.
Try googling Pamela Clark on parrot behaviour, she's my hero.

Claire

[Skyes_crew]

Claire summed it up correctly. If she is indeed a female during breeding season you will need to lower her sugar and fat intake. If you can modify her light...keep her covered a bit longer at night. If it is extreme, keep her caged in a place near you where she can watch you go about your daily routines. Breeding season doesn't last forever. Just hang in there.

[Jolz1987]

well thank you very very much

that all pretty much confirms it!
i have a hormonal little lady on my hands.

ill most definatly make the changes suggested and hopefully this all passes sooner rather then later as i really want my loving bird back.
how long should it normally last for?

easing up on the mashed foods makes sence as when Bird is eating the mash potato , its eyes pin neck arches and wings come up and a lil happy dance starts!
always thought it was cute and funny but now i know why!

i blocked the gap with a towel last night and bird was not at all impressed
is it best i leave bird in the cage untill this stage has passed. to prevent further injury to me and stress to bird?

thank you for all your help it has all been greatly appreciated

[InTheAir]

Sorry, I'm not sure about that one.. It's probably not a bad idea, especially if your getting hurt! Definitely keep using the outdoor cage during the day though.

Hopefully someone with hands on experience will chip in. *pokes Ellieelectrons*

Good luck, jolz! I hope your bird settles down soon.

[ellieelectrons]

Hi Jolz

I have had similar problems with my bird Janey. If you read this thread from last year, I think some of the suggestions will be helpful. http://www.indianringneck.com/forum/vie ... =2&t=14905

Regarding the flying at you and biting you behaviours, I'm pretty sure you have done something to trigger it. Something that is extremely innocent on your part but something that is a trigger for your ringneck. I thought that I was getting random attacks from my girl but I eventually figured out what was bringing them on. The main triggers were opening cupboards of drawers and picking up towels or linen. During breeding season I'm extremely wary of doing these things when she is out of the cage (I try to avoid doing them when she is out of the cage) and I generally don't go into the laundry (her chosen nesting area) when she is out of the cage unless I have to or unless I have to retrieve her from there... and when I do that, I interact with her carefully, I always let her come to me rather than presenting my hand directly to her.

This year, I am having similar problems to last year but they are not as bad yet. I've had one bite on the ear which was triggered by opening a drawer in my bathroom (she flew onto my shoulder and when I tried to get her off there was an ear bite that drew blood). That was distressing but it's been the only serious incident (touch wood) so far.

When I went to the Pamela Clark lecture a couple of weeks ago, she identified three things as triggers for wanting to breed:
- having a mate (and for a confused bird it can be a person)
- having a cavity to breed in
- a diet rich in fats and sugars.

I wouldn't stop having your bird out of the cage all together unless you are just so thoroughly terrified that you just can't do it. You may need to do shorter stints out of the cage though and thoroughly supervise her when she is out. Also, when you interact with her, keep your eyes on her all the time, observe her body language closely so that you can see if something scares/excites her. At this time of year, if I'm a bit unsure of whether she is going to lunge at me when I offer her a treat with my hands, I will give it to her on a plastic spoon. That was if she lunges at the spoon, it doesn't hurt me (Note: my bird is already familiar with receiving treats on the spoon. You may need to train your bird to not be scared of a spoon if you want to do that).

Also, don't let her on your shoulder if you can avoid it. If she tries to fly at you, see if you can step to the side or duck down. It won't always work.

Other things I've been working on this year are rewarding her for sitting on the hanging perch in our dining room - whilst she's sitting there she isn't out seeking nesting places in inappropriate places, so if she's on that perch, I reward her. Where possible, I try to ignore her if she hangs out anywhere I don't want her to be (don't talk to her, don't pick her up), so that she knows that I prefer to hang out on that particular perch. The exception to this is the laundry. I always pick her up from there so that she doesn't chew cables like she did last year. Interestingly, I think this is a little reinforcing for her and she usually comes to me straight away when in the laundry, so I suspect she now has two interests in the laundry: interaction with me and nesting.

If you can do things to break her normal routine, I think that is a good idea too. Eg. new cage or completely change cage around, change location of the cage. If you are inclined to take her with you when you go places in a travel cage, that's probably a good idea too.

Also, increasing foraging is a good idea. I've got some links on that too but not on me. I'll try to remember to post them in a couple of days when I'm home again. (Hubby, Janey, Charlie and I are currently away visiting family).

Cutting those items out or reducting them from the diet is good but it needs to be all year round. I don't know how much difference it will make now.

You asked how long we can expect the behaviour to go for. Generally, I think it will go until moulting kicks in.

Wishing you the best as you work your way through this confusing time. At the moment, I feel like I'm handling it better than last year, although it's early yet, and I honestly don't know if we are going to fare any better this year, although we are off to a reasonably promising start with a couple of bumps on the way.

I hope that all makes sense. If I haven't been clear, please let me know.

Ellie.

[Skyes_crew]

Ellie to the rescue

And definitely look for Ellie's foraging threads. Very helpful

[InTheAir]

Thanks Ellie!

[Jolz1987]

Thanks Heaps Ellie

some very helpfull tips right there.

so really i need to eliminate any little hidey holes, and be very presistant.
although when she latches on its pretty painfull !

how long would this phase last for?
i have noticed that at night when i go to bring her in it apears that she is more afraid of me, she wont step up any more either.
prior to any of this starting we all went about like we have for the past 8 months.
so it is a little bit hard to pn point what could have triggered an outburst if anything at all.

i broke down her cage on the weekend and changed it all around so that might hep a little as well.
as for foods, i have started on Broccoli and caulie flower but she dosent seem to be interested at all and just throws it aorund!

regards Jolz

[ellieelectrons]

You can't always eliminate the hidey holes but you can see what you can do, especially ones that are dangerous (eg. unbeknownst to me, my girl was chewing through electrical cables when she was searching out hidey holes in the laundry). She also tries to squeeze down in between the microwave and the cupboard its housed in. I just keep an eye on her when she does things like that. The best thing to do is to prevent access rather than trying to take her away. When she is somewhere I don't want to be, I call her. Sometimes she'll come straight to me, just because I called. Most of the time I can avoid the bites by getting her to come to me rather than me getting in her face.

The phase may last until her moult which in Australia comes in towards the end of the year.

When I'm talking about "triggers" I'm talking about what happened immediately before she bites, not overall trends in what's been happening in your home. Eg. I opened the linen cupboard whilst Janey was on my shoulder and she bit me on the ear. In this case opening the cupboard door was the trigger as she views cupboards (and linen) as potential nesting places.

Here are those links on foraging:
http://www.indianringneck.com/forum/vie ... 01&p=69400
http://www.indianringneck.com/forum/vie ... =4&t=13466
http://www.parrotenrichment.com/ - this site has some free ebooks to download

Sounds like you are working hard for your little girl. I hope things start to settle down. Last year, I gave in and gave her a nestbox. I'm hoping I can avoid that this year. So far, she's not too bad... but it's still challenging.

If you haven't already, please check out the thread on what I went through last year with Janey, I thin it could help you.

Ellie.

[InTheAir]

As far as eating healthier food; I've found chopping up veges that our boy doesn't like and mixing them in the same dish as finely chopped things he does like sometimes helps get him eating them. He just discovered he loves brussel sprouts that way.

Also, it may help to give her a treat everytime you get her to step up. I think Ellie has been trialling this method lately?
I'm pretty sure the way to a ringnecks heart is through its stomach! Our one is certainly governed by his greediness, we can even convince him to do things he really doesn't like if he thinks he can get a treat out of it

[birdynamnam]

Hi there, Yes, this sounds like bluffing to me big time. My Birdley is 8 months old now, even though he bluffed quite a while ago, say about 3 months ago (how quickly we forget), it certainly is very similar behaviour. They become nasty, little things, and when you are just about to give up, they become sunny, sweet and absolutely lovely. This bluffing went on for almost 3 months and it was hell. The pinning, buffing up the head and running towards you ready to bite, and bite hard.

What did I do to overcome this?. Patience, patience and patience and a routine set in stone. Ignoring the nasty behaviour completely. I mean, I used to have a garden glove on when taking him out of his cage while Birdley flapped, schreeched and tried to bite me, seems like another life time.

You are certainly feeding your bird the right things and giving it a lovely lifestyle. Dont give up, ignore the nastiness completely (I know its hard), but you will overcome eventually. Have you tried pushing in to the bite? I did even though it hurt like hell, that stopped the biting pretty much straight away as they do get the message quickly that biting gets them nowhere.

Unfortunately, IRs have a reputation, I think for a reason a little bit, this is all due to bluffing which is a hormonal overflow. Good luck with it all, and as I said, hang in there, it WILL get better.

[Skyes_crew]

I have to disagree that this is bluffing. I believe it is breeding season behaviors like Ellie and Claire and Ben have said.

I also have to wonder if your bird's bluffing period, birdynamnam, lasted that long because of the glove you were using. The reason he was flapping and screeching and biting was because of the glove. If you had simply closed your fingers into a light fist your bird would have responded better. For the most part it is the fingers that IRN's are afraid of. Is your bird clipped?? If so that is another reason for the lengthy bluffing period. He had no escape when he felt trapped or agitated so he bit. Flighted birds tend to bluff shorter or not at all. It is much healthier for your bird to learn to trust and respect you vs. fearing you. They are not being nasty. It is a stepping stone of the caged, clipped bird. It is not a hormonal overflow as that comes later on during sexual maturity. I have read of people experiencing bluffing anywhere from 10 weeks to 9 months. Typically birds bluff right after weaning. The later bluff may not be a bluff at all but a shift from baby to adult. Just a theory of mine. But please don't refer to it as nastiness. It is not the birds fault that he was bred in captivity and stuck in a cage with his freedom of flight taken away.

[Redzone]

I agree 110% Skye's crew!

[Jolz1987]

thanks guys,
so much confusion, but i think Bird is starting to come around, we have our good days and bad days but now i can scratch her head with out getting my arm taken off, she still arches her back puts her wings out pins her eyes and dose a little carry on then lets me scratch her head. since a little eppisode last week i decided to leave her in her cage and not get her out untill this phase has passed, altough i am still interacting with her every time possible, letting her eat from my hand and still talking to her in a nice voice.
i just hope the whole phase passes sooner rather then later becasue i want my little birdy back to the nice was she used to be!
please dont tell me that this could be the way it is from now on ! that would make me sad !

[InTheAir]

hi,

I am sure bird will settle down again, though I don't know how long it will take. There are a lot of factors involved.

Are you still using the flight cage during the day?

I really don't think that this is a bluffing stage. A flighted IRN hiding in small spaces and attacking people from there is so typical to breeding season urges.

We have a male who is about the same age as your Bird and he has been doing his boy dance to the mirror whenever he can get into the bathroom! He even tried his boy dance on me today, I just walked off. Luckily his attention span isn't long so he forgot about being a boy and flew over to see what I was doing (and whether there was any food involved) after a few minutes and hasn't tried it for me again yet.

Have you noticed anything that triggers the attacks? This is the most important part for improving your interactions, if you know what triggers a behaviour you can avoid doing it. Basically, with any animal there is a reason it does something it's just sometimes so hard for us to decipher (like Ellies bird biting her when she opens a cupboard, it's not always as obvious to us as it would be to another parrot).

Another thing that Pamela Clark suggests is the type of relationship with your parrot should be that of a teacher and a pupil. Since birds are learning from us all the time I really think it is worth studying what you teach them. It doesn't need to be tricks, it's more like teaching a child how to fit in to the household. I have just started teaching Nele to fly to his perch and stay there if he wants the biscuit I'm eating, instead of climbing up my hand to get it.

It is important to look at your household dynamics also. Does bird always acts a certain way when certain people are present?

I highly advise against birdynamnams suggestions of force and gloves. There are much better ways to get a relationship with an animal, or human, then making it feel it has no choice. Honestly, I have met cowboys who think the best way to "break" a horse is to rope a leg up to stop it bucking them off when they hopped on. It doesn't actually make that technique either necessary or humane and it doesn't build a good rapport! I've managed to get young horses to accept me riding them without having to tie them up at all.

If you can post a vid of that behaviour someone on here may be familiar with it.

Regards,
Claire