is a little aggression ok?

[Fidgit_Green]

hi everyone.

from the first time it was possible Fidgit seemed to have a serious issue with a stylus pen that i use with my phone, i have no idea how it started but he just gets seriously wound up by it.
and it doesnt matter if i change it to a different color, he still has an issue no matter what color it is.
and i have to admit that its very hard not to tease him with it (i dont of course) but he looks so funny when he gets all wound up over it.
the thing that worries me is that its not just a small thing, he gets really aggressive over it.

now my actual question is,
is it ok for him to have an issue with something? like having a healthy balance of good and bad or something?
or is it likely that him having that small issue is going to taint the way he acts with everything else?
do i need to really try and get im ok with the stylus pen so that he can be happy in every part of his life?

thanks in advance for your help.

[Fidgit_Green]

hi everyone.

i just wanted to bring this up again to see anyone could give me some advice on it

[Redzone]

Does he fly down to attack it or does he just come across it as a matter of course and have a go at it?

[MissK]

Is it just attacking the stylus, or does he fight you for control of it? Give complete and precise details, please.


-MissK

[Fidgit_Green]

well if i pick it up to use it and he is sitting on me within at least 2 feet of it he will start by getting really pissy about it. (puffs the feathers on his head only, pins his eyes and moves in really slow motion and makes his chittering sound that he does when he gets annoyed about something like being told off or something)

sometime he will just back away slowly for a bit an just sit there all agitated and chittering sometimes walking around back an forth in just a small area.

and other times he will move forwards and start striking at it, sometimes will straight away charge it.
he might strike at it a few times them move away for a bit and then come back and have another go at it, he will usually have one or two goes at it then move away a little and sit there all agitated an chittering away.

now, if i move the stylus pen closer to him and hold it there, (to let him have a go at it and see if he will see that its not going to hurt him and and try get him used to it) he will lean back, put his wings up and stretch them out (not completely, maybe like 75%) and stand there with his beak open, he will strike a couple times and then stay there like that with his beak open ready to attack again if he needs to. sometimes he will also back away while doing that and other times he will stand his ground and stay there.

i have no idea what started this reaction of his to my stylus, i try to avoid using it if he is close enough to it it to get worked up but even if he is at the foot of the bed and i pick up the stylus to use it he will still get agitated and start chittering away about it.

i am not sure about what the behavior really means, but it seems like its more than just straight up aggression towards something, it seems more like he sees it as a threat, like something that he feels he must always protect himself from, like a predator or something.
but i could be wrong, as is likely because i am not experienced at understanding ringneck behavior.

anyway, i hope that tell you what you need to understand it.

Cheers.
Paul

[MissK]

Wow, he really *doesn't* like that stylus!

At first blush, I think that IRNs are not really stand and fight kinds of guys, unless they might be trapped. I feel they are more of the "boldly run away" sort. I think if it were all the same to him, he would flee a predator/danger. Maybe he wants to defend you, his human, from this deadly stylus? Or maybe he seeks to eradicate the competition? I've never heard of that sort of behaviour before!

I hope someone stands up to explain this!

-MissK

[InTheAir]

Heyo,

Wow, that is strange.
Flight is generally the first response for a prey animal.

Can your bird climb off the bed by himself when he wants to?


It sounds like it gets in the way of your daily life with your bird.


Btw there are 2 really awesome parrot behaviourists in Brisbane next weekend giving workshops! If you can get along to that I'm sure you'll find some answers
http://www.parrotsociety.org.au/index.p ... mic&id=108

[ellieelectrons]

Both Claire and MissK have male birds. I see this kind of behaviour with Janey ALL the time, especially over pens and pen-shaped objects. In fact a got a nasty bit on my ear over one last week. I should have known better!

Could Fidgit be a girl? Do others with females see these same types of behaviours.

My vet wanted me to spend time waving a tissue over her head to get her used to having herself enclosed by something. I stopped doing it because it agitates her so much (similar to how she gets with a pen). Vet seemed to think I should continue in spite of the agitation so maybe some agitation of your bird is okay? I don't do it though, I'm too much of a soft touch.

Ellie.

[InTheAir]

Interesting point, Ellie.


Btw did vet recommend doing that for food rewards? I am assuming he recommends this to desensitise her? So the agitation will subside?
It is definitely kinder to the vet when a bird doesn't mind be restrained and enclosed.... Maybe you should consider toughening up on your birds for the sake of the poor vet

[ellieelectrons]

I suspect you are right. I have been wondering if my lack of assertiveness is the cause of my problems!

I don't know if he thought she would eventually settle down.

Ellie.

[InTheAir]

Right now I'm in the frame of mind to suggest having a ringneck is the problem, our little bugger won't eat his pellet and veggie dinner tonight, and keeps jumping on his training perch and trying to do tricks to earn some better food (I hate working him when he's actually hungry, cos he rushes his tricks and doesn't think about things as much!).

[willowisp71]

Hi Fidget_Green,

I'm not sure if this link will work or not, but this is a vid of my male IRN having one of his aggressive moments - there is no one particular thing he does this with - one day it could be his mirror, the next his wooden-hangy-chew-thing, the next it might just be one of the branches on his play-gym! I just let him go with it until he's got it out if his system, and then everything is cool again (almost like nothing even happened!!) Funny little buggers aren't they?

Is this similar to what your IRN does with your stylus?

http://youtu.be/Wt53qNi1ebE

PS; my female IRN also has moments of aggression toward certain inanimate objects -

[MissK]

Ellie makes an astute observation. I think you might have a winner. Does Janey also do the wings 75% out for that kind of attack?

So, is it OK? I would say if it interferes with your life and habits, then it's not really OK. I would say if you cannot desensitize the bird, then either put the bird farther away when you use the stylus (hard to do) or possibly provide a proxy? How would it go if you set up a very similar object and tie it loosely in place where Fidgit will be coming across it frequently. Maybe he (she?) will get bored with it. Heaven knows Rocky got bored with his puzzle, and when it first came around I thought he was going to try to climb inside the darn thing, he loved it so much!

-MissK

[Dean0]

Possibly the bird is jealous. Momma is giving all the hand love to the stylus. Ignoring the pretty bird while steadily loving that, that thingy.

[Skyes_crew]

I agree with the jealousy suggestion. I can lay my phone down on the table and Skye won't touch it. Doesn't even go near it. If I pick it up and put it to my ear he opens his wings, pins me, and readies himself to strike. I talk on the phone a lot and so I believe he's jealous of the attention my phone receives. If you use your stylus a lot then he probably perceives it as a threat to his existance as your #1. Plain and simple jealousy. I imagine he only does this when the stylus is in your hand? If you were to lay it down does he bother with it?

[MissK]

I've read (Mattie Sue Athen, again) that for some birds you just can't talk on the phone around them because of the competition for your attention.

-MissK

[Skyes_crew]

Sometimes he's really bad...and others he just does his boy dance and feels he has to talk in to the phone too. Ill be on the phone with my mom and he's on my shoulder saying thank you and hello over and over again. Another ploy at diverting my attention back to him

[Fidgit_Green]

thanks everyone for your replies
there was more replies about this than i had expected.

firstly, yes Fidgit is a boy, i had him DNA sexed at about 2 months old.

Willowisp, its hard to see exactly what your guy is doing so im not sure if its similar or not.

as for the idea of jealousy, im not to sure because he has had his issue with the stylus for as long as i can remember now, but he only recently became accepting of my hands so i cant really see how he would be jealous of not getting any attention for hands that he doesnt want near him anyway.

surprisingly with the amount of an issue that he has with the stylus it doesnt actually affect me much in the day to day things, i dont seem to be someone that uses my phone alot through the day.
the main thing that has been the issue is just being worried about whether that little bit of aggression is going to cause any problems later.

i dug out an old stylus that i had and put it out to see how he would react to it with out me handling it, he saw me put it out and was a little agitated to start with but then picked it up and started to chew on it, flipping it around it his foot an chewing.
after about a half hour i got it off him to see if he might have gotten over his issue at all but he still got worked up over it once i picked it up.
im going to let him play with it for a while and see if he will get over it in time.

Cheers
Paul

[Skyes_crew]

Silly idea...disguise the stylus. Wrap it with something that will change the shape of it. I would say feathers, but I don't know if a guy would have those laying around that might be able to tell you if it's the shape that bothers him or just because you have it in your hand.

Every once in awhile Skye will become a bit aggressive towards me. He will nip my face and when I go to move him he puffs out all over and goes after my fingers. He never really bites, but I don't have a lot of history on the bird before I got him at 10 months so I never knew if it would become a painful issue. I'm of the belief that when a bird acts up, you tell him no and place him in a quiet area. I've seen a big change in him by doing this. He doesn't like to be away from me, so if I put him away for 5 minutes and then take him back out, he's usually a little angel. I've desensitized him to being handled by people he doesn't really know or care for by using that method. Now he only growls a bit when he's at the vet. I think Skye is pretty laid back all around though. I can grab him when he's getting into something he shouldn't and put him away. And 5 minutes later its like it never happened and he's talking and stepping up to me.

[Jay_and_apple]

You got some great advice and I would try all of the above

[kanundra]

Hi Fidget_Green,

I'm not sure if this link will work or not, but this is a vid of my male IRN having one of his aggressive moments - there is no one particular thing he does this with - one day it could be his mirror, the next his wooden-hangy-chew-thing, the next it might just be one of the branches on his play-gym! I just let him go with it until he's got it out if his system, and then everything is cool again (almost like nothing even happened!!) Funny little buggers aren't they?

Is this similar to what your IRN does with your stylus?

http://youtu.be/Wt53qNi1ebE

PS; my female IRN also has moments of aggression toward certain inanimate objects -

I've found this thread really interesting.

We've had Bobby around 5 weeks, but he's only this last week started battering his favourite toy. Which we moved to make it a little more difficult for him, so now he hangs on it and batters it instead.

I'm thinking he's just hormonal. But I've booked him into a vet just to check. The vide above is exactly how he behaves.

What I'm wondering is how and should I let him do this? Should I distract him, with other things? He's damaged another feather by flying inside his cage, and now he's trying his best to break that one off.


But, he's still his cute self. He'll come out and play, take food off my hand which he's only just started to do. Just a little scary for someone who isn't used to seeing it.

would like some friends to talk to about him, lol...

[InTheAir]

Kanundra:

If he is in his own space, and playing with him own toys, I don't think it's a worry... This advice is coming from the perspective of someone who is no expert... Just an opinion... My policy with pets (and kids) is to let them do what they like in their own space when they are doing their own thing... If they are doing it in your space or to your 'toys' some behaviour modification may be in order.

Our bird plays aggressively with bells and stuff sometimes, but he is not acting it out on or near us so we just leave him to it. Our bird is still young, but we haven't had a problem yet.

Regards,
Claire

[willowisp71]

Hi Kunundra,

I agree with what Claire has posted above. We also are quite happy to leave both our birds be when they are in their own space, and bashing up their toys. To me it just seems part of their play habits. They haven't tried to direct that kind of agression toward each other, or toward us or any of our stuff, so I leave them be, and am no longer worried about it.

On the other hand, if you think your bird is getting to the point where it may hurt itself, or direct the behavior toward yourself or others, then you may need to look at finding a way to discourage it