My new baby Kiwi

[Josi1010]

Hello! My name is Josiane, I'm from Brazil. I just got my new IRN friend Kiwi. He is 4 months old now, but I have got him for only a month, which means he was already 3 months old. He has not been out of his cage yet, but for one reason. He gets terrified when I try to approach his cage. He flees all the time. Every single day, in the morning and afternoon (before I go to work and when I come back home), I go talk to him and feed him. He started eating a piece of apple from my fingers, but sadly he stopped doing that a few days ago, don't know why, but I still do it. And a curious fact is, at night, when I get close to him, I can touch his belly! Of course he knows I'm there and also tries to flee, but not so fast and scared as if he was seeing me. I read somewhere that they can't see very well in the dark, so I take advantage

Well, that's the short story of Kiwi and I. But now, what I really want is your help guys. I've been wanting to get him out of his cage to start getting used to my presence close to him, and also my touch and hand feeding. But I'm afraid that will scare him off even more! I read on some website that I should try to release him in a small room, with the lights very low, or no lights at all. But I'm also afraid he will try to fly away from me and I won't be able to catch him again to put him on his cage! By the way, his cage is very spacious, I was even told it was too big for just one bird!

Bottomline is, I really want to get him out of his cage and get him used to my presence. I just don't know how to do it without giving him a heart attack (kidding), or scaring him for good =/

What can I do?


Thanks!

[lola13]

Hey!

I've had my IRN for about a month now I was told its a she and is 6 months old.
My Lola runs away from me whenever I go near the cage. She's been out twice and both times I used the towel method only because every time I moved she flew away. She has bitten and drew blood only because she got her beak under my ring. Once I get curtains she'll be out every night and I'm hoping I won't have to use the towel.
Is his wings clipped? Will make it easier for him to be out of he cage.

My advice is to sit with him, talk to him softly. Keep trying with the apple if he fed from you the first time he will start doing it again.

It'll take patience and alot of time but will be worth it in the long run!

Bye!

[Josi1010]

Hi! Thanks for the tip! Yes, the breeder clipped one of his wings, but I can see that the feathers are starting to grow again. I want to get him out of the cage, but I don't know how to use the towel method. Can you explain it to me (from the moment of taking him out, dealing with him out, and putting him back)?

[Little Buttercup]

Hi and welcome, Another Kiwi here I see My green ringneck is also named Kiwi. Also untame and used to thrash around the cage when I came near it but it lasted only about 2 weeks. He got to know that if he thrashes around I won't move so he started relaxing then immediately I click and drop a treat in his bowl and move away. Very soon he started relaxing and making a cute sound when I come in the room, so he could have his treat. Now when he see me busy around he knows how to get my attention and a treat. Patience is required when trying to tame.

You can just leave the cage door open and let him come out on his own. Make sure all doors and windows are closed as he will still fly with clipped wings, so I don't see any reason to clip. My Kiwi's wings were clipped, both, when I got him, but oh my, can he fly! And high too he goes! I'm leaving it to grow in and won't be clipping it again. When all the doors are shut I let him go around the house and he seems to be at his happiest . I don't know much about the towel but I used it 3 times to put him into his cage, but only after trying for 15 minutes to let him go in, he kept on climbing on top of the cage and then flying off again, so while he was climbing up I just took hold of him with the towel. He was very sweet, no biting or screaming, but I quickly let him into the cage without keeping him or even touching him. I won't do anything to him against his will. But be careful, yours may bite you as I have read in other posts some owners got bitten while towelling. Don't forget to give him treats when he go in the cage. Also keep all his food in the cage so he will go in when hungry and you can shut the door if you like. The bigger the cage the better and more comfortable they are and less thrashing around they do.

Hope this helps, sorry if my long post bores you

Ash

[InTheAir]

Hi Josi,

Welcome.

It sounds like you and kiwi were making good progress at making friends, then he got scared. Did he stop taking apple from you before or after you touched his tummy?

Towelling can be helpful, or it can end up counter productive with the bird biting in self-defence because he is frightened.
It sounds like you have a very nice bird that doesn't bite you, who is not very confident with people.
It might be worth doing a search on this forum to find more information on towelling birds, I think someone made a video of it.
Talking to him and giving him treats will build his trust in you, though it might take a while before you get results.

Good luck,

Claire

[Josi1010]

Thanks for the tips guys! As an answer to Claire, he stopped taking apple after I touched his tummy, but even so he took it a few times, then he stopped. I don't want to do anything that might end the progress he is going to have with me. I will definitely watch the videos e try to look for some more information on the forum!

As for taking him out of the cage, his cage is actually outside of the house, so the only way of bringing him inside is with the towell, I guess. My mother doesn't want his cage inside because of the mess he makes And also, what kind of treats can I give him? Can I still continue to give him pieces of apple? I'm just a little bit afraid about the process of me taking him out, dealing with him out, and putting him back in, specially with the cage being outside of the house While he's out, should I deal with him with the lights off (or low)?

His cage is tall, he has 4 perches, one on the bottom, 2 middle ones, and one on top of the others. I believe the total height of the cage (not counting the feet), is almost a meter tall, so he has plenty of space. But the door is located on the bottom, so he would have to come down first. If he doesn't come down on his own, should I try to catch him? He only stays on the top perch, he almost doesn't come down (only when I get close to him and he tries to fly away), and by that I believe I would have to try to take out the top perch so that he won't be able to go that high, right?

[subodhhire]

Hi Josi,

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your new bird.

My first request to you is to please get the other wing clipped in proportion with the clipped one. Single wing clip creates imbalance for the bird while flying and since your bird is very young he/she might lose the confidence of flying and might never be able to fly. Please get it done from a avian vet.

Also i would suggest you to get the cage inside the house. He will become more accustomed to people if he sees them around.

Toweling the bird can be good or equally bad, so please understand properly how it is done and then do it.

Patience is the key, just go slow and steady. You have a young bird and if socialized properly, you will have a wonderful companion for a long time. I wish you luck.

Subodh

[Josi1010]

Hi Josi,

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your new bird.

My first request to you is to please get the other wing clipped in proportion with the clipped one. Single wing clip creates imbalance for the bird while flying and since your bird is very young he/she might lose the confidence of flying and might never be able to fly. Please get it done from a avian vet.

Also i would suggest you to get the cage inside the house. He will become more accustomed to people if he sees them around.

Toweling the bird can be good or equally bad, so please understand properly how it is done and then do it.

Patience is the key, just go slow and steady. You have a young bird and if socialized properly, you will have a wonderful companion for a long time. I wish you luck.

Subodh

I understand. I was told that both wings should be clipped, but when I asked the breeder to do it for me, he clipped only one wing. And before I got Kiwi I went to a pet store to buy his cage and the seller told me that if I clipped his wings or if I was near someone doing it, Kiwi would hate me for life. Is that true?

[Josi1010]

Hi again! I've been reading a few topics and one of them caught my attention, about Koko. I see that a lot of people are trying to help the owner of Koko and some tips that were given to him were very enlightening, such as trying to starve him for a period of time and then let the cage door open so he can get out by himself, explore the room (while I'm doing something else rather than chasing him, in other words, ignoring him), and try to lure him back to the cage using treats, perhaps a trail of them, since he is starving from the beginning. And also I decided not to use the towel method. I believe some people were lucky, but I don't trust that! I mean, I could be lucky too, but I prefer not to risk it and damage the bond I want to create with Kiwi.

Since day one I have been talking to him and trying to feed, and when he acts like "I don't want your apple anymore", I just lay next to him on a hammock and start reading my book. When I read that I should do things so that he could observe me, I felt a little proud of myself, seeing that I'm doing one thing right!

He's going to complete one month with me tomorrow (and 5 months old on April 06th ), so I believe I can start trying, since he has been seeing a lot of me from the inside of his cage! Rs

I'm going to try to open his cage tonigh when I come home from work. But first, I should take his food, right? Then, when it's been around 60 minutes, I can open the door and leave some treats on the floor so he can go by himself and take them. Is that correct?

Looking forward to your answer!

[Josi1010]

Here is a picture of his cage, I got it on the internet, but it is the exact same cage
His door is on the bottom, and he likes to stay at the top perch. Should I try to remove the top perch so that he can feel close to the exit?

And also, If he gets close to the door, how will I get him to go to the floor, since it is off the ground?

[subodhhire]

Hi Josi,

There were 2 reasons for me suggesting you to go to a vet for the clipping part 1) He will maintain the balance on both the wings properly and 2) You will look like a rescuer for KIWI who will hate the vet and start loving you.

Of all the threads, you had to see the KOKO one. Anyways if you have not noticed, It was I who suggested the towel stuff to romantic. I had good results with my birds in the past but romantic messed up and with very grievous results. So I decided i will not suggest it to anyone else.

About your cage, It is normal tendency of a bird to go up when frightened so It will be difficult for you to get him down. If possible try removing the top of the cage. You can also add a branch across the cage for him to perch on. But first get the clipping done properly just in case if he jumps from the top of the cage he should be able to glide down properly without hurting.

But before that you can try the almond and cashew stuff mentioned in that KOKOs thread itself for 8 days. See how it goes.

Wish you luck

Subodh

[Josi1010]

Hi Josi,

There were 2 reasons for me suggesting you to go to a vet for the clipping part 1) He will maintain the balance on both the wings properly and 2) You will look like a rescuer for KIWI who will hate the vet and start loving you.

Of all the threads, you had to see the KOKO one. Anyways if you have not noticed, It was I who suggested the towel stuff to romantic. I had good results with my birds in the past but romantic messed up and with very grievous results. So I decided i will not suggest it to anyone else.

About your cage, It is normal tendency of a bird to go up when frightened so It will be difficult for you to get him down. If possible try removing the top of the cage. You can also add a branch across the cage for him to perch on. But first get the clipping done properly just in case if he jumps from the top of the cage he should be able to glide down properly without hurting.

But before that you can try the almond and cashew stuff mentioned in that KOKOs thread itself for 8 days. See how it goes.

Wish you luck

Subodh

I'm definitely going to try that method, it's very interesting! I just have to buy those nuts first!
Tonight I tried giving him a piece of apple but he still didn't come near my hand. He kept looking right at it like "I really want that apple, so why don't you just leave it there so I can eat it?" But actually I've been noticing that he just gets scared when I'm approaching the cage, and when I stop and stare and talk to him, he calms down. I believe that is a progress right?

I'm going to to the almonds and cashew thing, and a few weeks later I'll let you know how it's working! Then I'm going to aks you what to do next! I'm REALLY looking forward on building his trust, and not messing up AT ALL. So I'm a 100% patient!

[InTheAir]

Hi Josi,

Great work, kiwi is a lucky bird.

Our bird also love sunflower seeds (in the shell) also. His favourite fresh food changes every week, a few weeks ago he loved apples, and wouldn't even look at carrots, now it's the opposite!

Have you got a play stand for him when he's out of the cage? If so you can place it by the cage where he can get to it by himself by climbing.

Sorry if I put you off the towel technique, I don't actually have anything against the method. If you are confident handling your bird with a towel your bird will probably respond well.

It might be worth searching foraging also. It could keep your birds mind busy while you aren't home, and might make treats that come from your hand seem like the easy way to get food.


Claire

[Josi1010]

Hi Josi,

Great work, kiwi is a lucky bird.

Our bird also love sunflower seeds (in the shell) also. His favourite fresh food changes every week, a few weeks ago he loved apples, and wouldn't even look at carrots, now it's the opposite!

Have you got a play stand for him when he's out of the cage? If so you can place it by the cage where he can get to it by himself by climbing.

Sorry if I put you off the towel technique, I don't actually have anything against the method. If you are confident handling your bird with a towel your bird will probably respond well.

It might be worth searching foraging also. It could keep your birds mind busy while you aren't home, and might make treats that come from your hand seem like the easy way to get food.


Claire

Oh, don't worry, it wasn't you! I haven't tried to get him out of his cage, I'm going to try another method of making him want my presence with food. I just don't feel that confident yet on trying the towel method, by reading other people's stories. I could be lucky or not. Maybe I will try letting him go out by himself first. If on the first days I notice that he's taking too long, I'll probably try the towel method, but only as a last resource. I'm just a little scared yet, you know? But thanks anyway for the tip! It's good for knowledge!

[MissK]

Hi Josi,

I would suggest maybe you can wheel that cage inside before you take the bird out. Perhaps your mom will not mind if it only comes in for a little while, especially if you clean out all the seed mess so nothing drops inside. Also, as you are offering the treat, you should be eating some yourself.

Best wishes,
-MissK

[InTheAir]

Josi,

I hope things go well for you and kiwi and I look forward to hearing about your progress together.

I think it's just the sweetest thing when they start doing little things that show they trust you.

Claire

[subodhhire]

Hi Josi,

Have you thought about the top of the cage. I mean is it detachable? If yes I think you should try that at the earliest. I am sure you will get better results, cause Kiwi wont be leaving his cage still he will have the feeling of freedom. He should respond with you in a better way once he understands that you mean only good for him.

Removing the cage top and putting the Almond/Cashew from there seems a very good idea to me. But please cover the top again if you are going to place the cage outside the house. Removing the top is only advisable indoors.

Subodh

[InTheAir]

Subbodh,
That's a great idea, so much less threatening for the bird then climbing down.

Have you and Missk (and Ellie)ever considered writing a thread on how to build a good relationship with a ringneck that isn't tame? It seems to be a frequently asked question on here, so a sticky post might be useful... With tips on how to think about the situation from the birds perspective....

Claire

[Josi1010]

Hi Josi,

I would suggest maybe you can wheel that cage inside before you take the bird out. Perhaps your mom will not mind if it only comes in for a little while, especially if you clean out all the seed mess so nothing drops inside. Also, as you are offering the treat, you should be eating some yourself.

Best wishes,
-MissK

Hi guys! MissK, that's a good idea. I'll buy today come almonds and cashew so i can start the process next week. And also start eating some of the apple myself, while I talk to him.

From what I saw, it seems that the top of the cage is not detachable, unfortunately. I'll check again tonight when I come home, because if it is really detachable, I prefer doing that than letting him come out from the bottom (which it may be a much longer process to him =/).

I'll wheel the cage inside. If I can detach the top of the cage, then I won't have to detach the bottom part, which is harder to do, for him to get on the floor. I believe that if he feels he can only go up, he'll be more confident. I'm just a little afraid that if I do that, he'll fly away from the cage and it could make it more difficult for me to get him back. If it happens, should I try starving him and bribing with some food so he goes back inside?

[MissK]

Josie, please do not starve the bird in any situation. Somebody else mentioned on another thread they had seen starving the bird suggested. This is not what is meant by withholding food for an hour or two.

When a food lure is not particularly effective, it may be made more so by allowing the bird to get a little hungry - much as you would be a little hungry if you skipped one meal or got home late for dinner. So, you want the bird motivated to pursue the eating opportunity, but not literally starving. In this way, the bird will be more inclined to be bold and take a chance on unfamiliar or second choice behaviour.

The food lure should also be extra nice, so nice that skipping a meal is not really necessary. Consider, if you were well fed, would you still accept a bribe of a chocolate bar? Or would more of the meal you just ate be as effective?

Claire, thank you for the recognition of my efforts here. I'm not up for that, but maybe the others are. Don't forget Melika, too.

-MissK

[Josi1010]

Josie, please do not starve the bird in any situation. Somebody else mentioned on another thread they had seen starving the bird suggested. This is not what is meant by withholding food for an hour or two.

When a food lure is not particularly effective, it may be made more so by allowing the bird to get a little hungry - much as you would be a little hungry if you skipped one meal or got home late for dinner. So, you want the bird motivated to pursue the eating opportunity, but not literally starving. In this way, the bird will be more inclined to be bold and take a chance on unfamiliar or second choice behaviour.

The food lure should also be extra nice, so nice that skipping a meal is not really necessary. Consider, if you were well fed, would you still accept a bribe of a chocolate bar? Or would more of the meal you just ate be as effective?

Claire, thank you for the recognition of my efforts here. I'm not up for that, but maybe the others are. Don't forget Melika, too.

-MissK

I see...well, I was going to try the method of the almonds and cashew that was suggested on another case, of Koko. What I understood of the method is that I should first give him and almond and a cashew so that he chooses what he likes most. Then I start giving him only the one he chose, for 3 or 4 days. I should take out his food by the time he goes to sleep, and put the almond or cashew first thing in the morning so he realizes I'm the one bringing him food and treats. Then I leave him eating the nuts and after 1 hour I put his regular food back in the same place. After these 3 or 4 days, I should start reducing the amount of the food, making this process into a 7 day training, sort of.

That's what I understood. Is it correct? I'm getting a little confused now about what i sould and shouldn't do to Kiwi =/

[subodhhire]

Hi Josi,

What MissK said is right. You are not to starve the bird in any case. You will remove the food from his cage at night after he has had his proper dinner. Normally birds dont eat at night, But they try to eat as much as they can by evening and fill the crop so that they wont require any food during the night. This is true for captive birds as well. So when you are removing the food at night you are not starving it as he has already had his fill.

In the morning they start by sunrise in search of food and water. Similarly captive birds start their day by looking in their dishes what is there to eat or the wait for someone who is going to feed them. That someone has to be you. with a cashew and almond.

Also let me tell you a whole cashew or almond has lots of fats and calories. I mean one almond or cashew can be enough food for a whole day. So there again you are not starving the bird.

The most important part is you have to reduce the size of the treat i.e Cashew or Almond whichever treat is chosen by your bird. Dont reduce the regular food.

I think you are getting too many advises at the same time so its a bit confusing. So let us go step by step.

1) Start the Cashew and almond stuff immediately. I mean the next morning.

2) while you are doing step one daily find an avian vet and get both the wings in proper order.

3) After you finish step 2 and step one is still in the process, Try to remove the top of the cage. You should remove the top in the morning before giving him the treat.


For now if you can just complete these 3 steps and let us know the results. We would be glad to help further.

Wish you luck

Hi Claire,

If we can just convert the post of Romantic into a sticky post, I think that will solve your purpose as it has ingredients from all the people you mentioned and also has different technics.

Subodh

[Josi1010]

Hi Josi,

What MissK said is right. You are not to starve the bird in any case. You will remove the food from his cage at night after he has had his proper dinner. Normally birds dont eat at night, But they try to eat as much as they can by evening and fill the crop so that they wont require any food during the night. This is true for captive birds as well. So when you are removing the food at night you are not starving it as he has already had his fill.

In the morning they start by sunrise in search of food and water. Similarly captive birds start their day by looking in their dishes what is there to eat or the wait for someone who is going to feed them. That someone has to be you. with a cashew and almond.

Also let me tell you a whole cashew or almond has lots of fats and calories. I mean one almond or cashew can be enough food for a whole day. So there again you are not starving the bird.

The most important part is you have to reduce the size of the treat i.e Cashew or Almond whichever treat is chosen by your bird. Dont reduce the regular food.

I think you are getting too many advises at the same time so its a bit confusing. So let us go step by step.

1) Start the Cashew and almond stuff immediately. I mean the next morning.

2) while you are doing step one daily find an avian vet and get both the wings in proper order.

3) After you finish step 2 and step one is still in the process, Try to remove the top of the cage. You should remove the top in the morning before giving him the treat.


For now if you can just complete these 3 steps and let us know the results. We would be glad to help further.

Wish you luck

Hi Claire,

If we can just convert the post of Romantic into a sticky post, I think that will solve your purpose as it has ingredients from all the people you mentioned and also has different technics.

Subodh

Thanks Subodh! That was very enlightening! I really was getting a little bit confused with so many advises
I'm definitelygoing to start the process tonight! I'll let you know in a week!

[Little Buttercup]

Hi Josi,

What MissK said is right. You are not to starve the bird in any case. You will remove the food from his cage at night after he has had his proper dinner. Normally birds dont eat at night, But they try to eat as much as they can by evening and fill the crop so that they wont require any food during the night. This is true for captive birds as well. So when you are removing the food at night you are not starving it as he has already had his fill.

In the morning they start by sunrise in search of food and water. Similarly captive birds start their day by looking in their dishes what is there to eat or the wait for someone who is going to feed them. That someone has to be you. with a cashew and almond.

Also let me tell you a whole cashew or almond has lots of fats and calories. I mean one almond or cashew can be enough food for a whole day. So there again you are not starving the bird.

The most important part is you have to reduce the size of the treat i.e Cashew or Almond whichever treat is chosen by your bird. Dont reduce the regular food.

I think you are getting too many advises at the same time so its a bit confusing. So let us go step by step.

1) Start the Cashew and almond stuff immediately. I mean the next morning.

2) while you are doing step one daily find an avian vet and get both the wings in proper order.

3) After you finish step 2 and step one is still in the process, Try to remove the top of the cage. You should remove the top in the morning before giving him the treat.


For now if you can just complete these 3 steps and let us know the results. We would be glad to help further.

Wish you luck

Hi Claire,

If we can just convert the post of Romantic into a sticky post, I think that will solve your purpose as it has ingredients from all the people you mentioned and also has different technics.

Subodh

Hi Subodh,

I would like to try the almond/cashew stuff with Kiwi, but I would like to know the reason for giving the breakfast after 1 hour only. If the bird has eaten the nut treat then what would be the effect of giving food an hour later?

Also you mentioned in the Koko post to leave the bird in the cage and not open him up. For how long that would be? And again I would like to know the reason. Because after breakfast I open Kiwi's cage and he goes onto the play tree and plays around for about 4-5 hours. Do you think I should try that method out with Kiwi? He is still afraid of my hands and won't take food from it, I always drop his treat into his treat bowl, then he comes down and takes it, it won't matter to him if I sit very close to the cage as long as my hands are not touching the cage.

I also think its a good idea to make Romantic's post sticky. Lots of info there in.

Ash

[Josi1010]

I have the same doubts as Ash, looking forward to the answer! Anyways, I just came to let you guys know that I brought his cage inside the house, yesterday it was in the garage, but then i put it in my bedroom, so he could observe me while I was watching tv on my own. Also, there were people here and I noticed he is not freaking out as much as he did before! That's good, right?

He is still in my bedroom, I left him right in front of my mirror, so he could have come "company"

Today I bought the nuts, I didn't have any at home, so tonight I can try the method. Hope everything goes well! i'll let you guys know how it's going!

Thanks for the help so far!

Btw: I already found a vet who can clip his other wing to make them even, I'll call him this tuesday so he can come to my place and do it

[subodhhire]

Hi Ash and Josi,

The reason I suggested a time gap between the treat and the regular meal is to underline the difference between the two. I know they taste different but since we are going to feed him the nuts daily for sometime he might misunderstand the nuts as regular food. So gradually when he has selected his favorite treat we start reducing the size of the treat. The size and the time gap in between should underline the treat very well. Also you dont have to follow strictly one hour as the time gap. You can reduce or even increase it according to the temperament of your individual bird. The main intention is to underline a treat.

Koko and Romantic were a different case. I suggested not to get Koko out of the cage was because Romantic was not handling Koko properly and during nut training if he again makes the same mistake things will become worse between him and Koko. So I suggested not to get him out. If you have gone through the current thread. I have told Josi to remove the top of the cage as soon as she gets the wings in proper order. The main idea there is to get Kiwi to come to josi for the treat.

Ash you can lure your Kiwi to come out of the cage for his treat and if possible you can make him go back the same way. But for that first find what he likes the most and then do as i said.

One more thing i want to clarify. I suggested Cashew and Almond as treat cause i have seen IRNs and Alexandrines liking it for sure. It might happen that a certain bird might not like it and the entire exercise might collapse. So while choosing your treat you can include peanuts, walnuts or something that you think your bird likes.

A treat is supposed to be something that the bird will do anything to get at. I got results with Cashew and Almonds so I have suggested them. It might happen that your bird likes something else.

Subodh

P.S. Please let me know if my english is understandable and everything i say is crystal clear.

[Josi1010]

Hi Subodh!

I have good news so far! Today (just now, actually), I got to feed Kiwi from my hands again! He came to me (through the cage bars) to eat a piece of apple, after a few days without doing it! I was so happy I started saying both in English and Portuguese "good boy!"!
Just wanted to share that news!

About the top of the cage, I don't remember if I said it, but unfortunately it is not detachable so I guess after this training and clipped wings, I should try to get him out from the bottom of the cage. I believe the proper moment is when he is used to waiting for me for food, I can start to lure him out the cage with food from the bottom.

That's it for now!

P.s.: he's so happy he got his apple treat he went to get some food and started to chirp! (he usually doesn't eat while I'm around, and now I can feel he is getting used to my presence! )

[subodhhire]

Hi Josi,

Congratulations, I know you must be feeling wonderful now. This is just the beginning, Just wait for few more days and you will be on top of the world .

It is ok about your cage top. Yes you can lure him out from the cage door. Did you try to give him the nuts that you got for him?

Subodh

[leo1955]

Hi Guys,
Reading through this thread is more than an experience. I really find myself a little more educated while browsing here , (while in my work , lol). When I get home tonight, I am excited to practice in actual what I read to my Rich.

[Josi1010]

Hi Josi,

Congratulations, I know you must be feeling wonderful now. This is just the beginning, Just wait for few more days and you will be on top of the world .

It is ok about your cage top. Yes you can lure him out from the cage door. Did you try to give him the nuts that you got for him?

Subodh

Hi Subodh! I put him in the garage so he could sleep, and I took out his food. This morning I gave him an almond and a cashew nut and left him there to eat without bothering him, while I was getting ready to go to work. When I came back 1 hour later he had taken the nuts (I guess he wanted to eat them) but they fell on the bottom of the cage and, as I was leaving for work, I put his food back in his can. But I noticed a bite on the cashew nut, so I'm going to try again tomorrow morning, to give him both nuts so I can be sure which one he chooses.

What do you think about the mirror? I put him back in the garage so he could have a little privacy while he eats. But should I leave him in my bedroom, because of mirror? Or is it okay to alternate between bedroom and garage a few times?

[subodhhire]

Hi Josi,

I think you should have a permanent place for him while you are trying to bond with him. I also have a big mirror where i keep my birds but that doesnt seem to bother them at all. Your bedroom would be best for him as he will get used to seeing you around and you can also keep an eye on his behavior.

Subodh

[Josi1010]

I see...I'll do that then!

[subodhhire]

GOOD LUCK

Subodh

[Little Buttercup]

Hi Ash and Josi,

The reason I suggested a time gap between the treat and the regular meal is to underline the difference between the two. I know they taste different but since we are going to feed him the nuts daily for sometime he might misunderstand the nuts as regular food. So gradually when he has selected his favorite treat we start reducing the size of the treat. The size and the time gap in between should underline the treat very well. Also you dont have to follow strictly one hour as the time gap. You can reduce or even increase it according to the temperament of your individual bird. The main intention is to underline a treat.

Koko and Romantic were a different case. I suggested not to get Koko out of the cage was because Romantic was not handling Koko properly and during nut training if he again makes the same mistake things will become worse between him and Koko. So I suggested not to get him out. If you have gone through the current thread. I have told Josi to remove the top of the cage as soon as she gets the wings in proper order. The main idea there is to get Kiwi to come to josi for the treat.

Ash you can lure your Kiwi to come out of the cage for his treat and if possible you can make him go back the same way. But for that first find what he likes the most and then do as i said.

One more thing i want to clarify. I suggested Cashew and Almond as treat cause i have seen IRNs and Alexandrines liking it for sure. It might happen that a certain bird might not like it and the entire exercise might collapse. So while choosing your treat you can include peanuts, walnuts or something that you think your bird likes.

A treat is supposed to be something that the bird will do anything to get at. I got results with Cashew and Almonds so I have suggested them. It might happen that your bird likes something else.

Subodh

P.S. Please let me know if my english is understandable and everything i say is crystal clear.

Thanks, I understand better now. I don't have a problem getting Kiwi in and out of the cage though. He is good when its time to go back. Yes Kiwi does'nt like almonds at all. His favourite is peanuts and sunflowers. But I bought some cashews yesterday so will see if he likes that.
Also first time I read in this post about one wing clipping. I really did'nt know about it and I have been clipping Coco's, my cockatiel, wing for about a year. But I don't clip anymore now and he has fully grown wings now, but he doesn't fly normally like how Kiwi does. He will go in circles around the room and go down to the floor in that manner or bang against something to make him stop. And I really would like him to fly nicely but not sure if he can be taught. For example Kiwi flies from the top of his cage onto his play tree and Coco never does that, he just climbs down the cage onto the floor and can't go on the play tree, I have to put him on and he will climb down the tree when he wants to get off. Hope I did'nt mess his wings up or his ability to fly.

Ash

[subodhhire]

Hi Ash,

If what you say about cocos flight is true, I am sorry to say but you have messed up. But dont worry that can be resolved.

Try to teach recall training or target training to Coco. Encourage him to fly from one perch to other. Initially the perches must be really close like 6 inches or so. Gradually increase the distance by an inch daily. I think he will be flying properly in a month or so.

Subodh

[Josi1010]

Hello!

I just want to tell you, Subodh, that, unfortunately, Kiwi is not eating the cashew and almond nuts
i do it just like you said, but he is not going to his can, maybe because I am close to him, since his cage is in my bedroom and I need to get ready to go to work. But even when I go brush my teeth or have coffee, I spy on him and he doesn't eat the nuts. Then, when it has been almost an hour and it is close for me to go to work, I put his food back and next thing I know he is there eating

What do I do in this occasion? He's is going well, not as scared as before and eating from my hand again (yesterday he almost ate my fingers with the apple he even bit my finger, but very softly, just to know what was near his food, I guess) and that is making me really happy.

This week I will call the vet to come to my house and clip his other wing, but after he does that, should I continue the almond and cashew method until he gets used to it, or should I try to lure him out of the cage with food?

[MissK]

Chip a nut into little bits and stick them in/on some apple so he will get a taste. He may change his mind on nuts. Also, you did take them out of the shell, right? (Just checking.) It is worth it to see what nut he likes because once he is a confirmed nut fan they will be worth their weight in gold for training. Try clean pecans and pistachios too.


-MissK

[Josi1010]

That's a good idea! I'm going to try that tonight. Every day I come home from work I cut a piece of apple and give it to him, it's been only 2 he started to take it from my fingers again. I believe that will help, and tomorrow he might be able to eat it without the apple!

[subodhhire]

Hi Josi,

As mentioned earlier it is not a hard and fast rule that your bird will like almond or Cashew. Also it happens many times that he might start liking it after some time. There is also this possibility that he might not like it at all. In that case you will have to try other nuts like peanuts or walnuts etc.

The entire exercise is based on food or rather favorite food of the bird. You have to find the favorite first, only then can you proceed further. Positive reinforcement is 100% based on treats and that is the best method.

So keep on trying till you hit the bulls eye with the treat. Once there things become very simple.

Subodh

[Josi1010]

Hi Subodh

Okay, I will try with other nuts. Actually I don't know if he didn't like them because I didn't see him even touching the nuts, but even so, I will try with other ones, and maybe put a few pieces of it in the apple so he can taste it little by little, like MissK said.

Thanks!

[subodhhire]

Hi Josi,

Actually the idea of MissK is right. There is a possibility that he had never tasted the nut before and so is not aware of its taste.

Subodh

[Little Buttercup]

Hi Subodh,
Thanks, I have started flight recall with Coco and done it thrice already, and he is doing it nicely. Hope he will fly better. Should I do twice a day or thrice?

Josi, try different types of nuts and seeds. Coco loves almonds while Kiwi does'nt, he likes peanuts, sunflower seeds. I tried cashew he ate about half of it, will give it again to see if he really likes it. I give pumpkins seeds as well and they eat it.

Ash

[subodhhire]

Hi Ash,

Initially keep it twice a day and later on make it more rigorous upto 5 times a day.

Subodh

[Josi1010]

Hi Ash! Yesterday I put in his can one walnut, cashew nut, almond and a Brazil nut. I just wanted to see which one he would take, because when I tried the nuts alone (without any food), he wouldn't come near it. And now that it's with his food, perhaps he can assimilate it as food. This morning he ate a piece of the Brazil nut and cashew nut, before I went to work. Tonight I'm going to try Subodh's method again, to leave the nuts withou his other food, now that he has tasted and seen it.

[subodhhire]

Hi Josi,

You got the idea of it now.

Subodh

[Josi1010]

Hi guys! Just an update. Kiwi is still not taking the nuts alone, he only takes them with some food. I'm thought it was because I'm in the room with him, but then I go to the bathroom to get ready for work and, even an hour later, he doesn't take the nuts. So before I leave this morning I put just a little food with the nuts (don't worry, he won't starve, he eats really slow ) and I'm going to check when I come home this evening.

Yesterday I saw him taking a Brazil nut and by the time I got home, he had eaten it all and left the others, so I'm assuming he liked it
What if he doesn't take the nuts alone? Should I try another method?

[subodhhire]

Hi Josi,

I think he is just being a bit moody. If he is liking the brazil nut good. But are you sure of it. I mean is he liking it or just eating it. You must experiment with some more different nuts or pellets. As mentioned before he must like it and should be ready to anything for it.

Subodh

[MissK]

Brazil nuts are kind of large. Are we sure the pieces are sized so he can manage them easily? Remember, at 4 months, he still has a lot to learn about himself.

-MissK

[Josi1010]

Well, I'm not sure if he is liking LIKING it, because I only saw him eating it once. The nuts are not sized, I really should do that I'm already trying with walnut, cashew, almod and brazil nut. I'm going to try something else then

[Skyes_crew]

Hello all,
I read through this whole post and find your nut issue similar to what I was going through. I fixed it though. My IRN had never tasted nuts before and she is a little cautious to anything new. So when I want her to try something new, I sit at the table near her cage eating it. She watches me curiously until she can't take it anymore and hops down to explore what I'm eating. You could try that method to get a good feel for what your bird does and doesn't like. I know you said your bird doesn't come out yet, but maybe if you sit next to the cage and start eating and watch for interest. When you have the birds attention try offering a bit of what you're eating. Other than that it seems like you are making great progress with your bird. I wish you the best of luck