a new owner who is almost clueless.

[Tinquertoyz]

Hi,

in september i bought an irn, her name is bubbles. i went to see her at the house i got her from with only the intention of just visting,checking her out, planned on visiting a few times before actually purchasing her, but once i walked in i was so heart broken at what i saw i sat down and talked to her for like an hour after that and seeing all she wanted was to be talked to i immediatly spent the money to get her out of the enviroment she was in. she was in a big cage but she never left the one perch, she had no toys and would totally flip out if you opened the door, well now its November and i bought her a huge cage bought a million differnt toys, and things appear to be going good. for the first month she didnt speak or come out of the cage period. we have tried several foods seems like she was more wiling to try differnt stuff when we first got her now she picks through everything and throws it on the floor drives me crazy that she prefers to just eat sunflower seeds and rice a roni. but either way. i still cannot touch her and now i cant get her to shut up. i can tell she is used to me now, but not sure as to how to touch her with out her flippin out. she tries to speak like she now says hello when you walk in the room. i have a toy in there with a bell on the bottom i have showed her the bell and i ring it. now when i ring the bell i tell her bubbles where is your bell she will ring it. great accomplishment if you ask me considering where i got her never spoke a word to her. around 8-9 pm (when i get home from work) she tries to talk or so i assume, she makes chatter noises and carries on and on. and she struts back and forth showing out. she sometimes sits on top and opens her mouth as if she is trying to get something to come out like she is really trying to say something but nothing does and she gets frustrated and will scream, sometimes she does get loud and i just get her attention ad tell her bubbles no need to yell just talk to me. she is such an awesome little person i just want her to be comfortable so i can touch her interact with her and just dont know what else to do. she has free time out of her cage basically all the time unless we are not home. i spent all this money on this huge cage with a play stand and she refuses to go on the playstand i dont know why i have put treats out there and everything she refuses, i cant even trick her to go out on it. but she will climb straight to the top and strut her stuff chatting away., what am i doing wrong???? i have searched and searched for info on this species and to this day this is the only site i have found that is even remotely close to how my bird is, i dont care about breeding or anything like that i just want my baby to know we love her and wouldnt hurt her ever we just want to show her that life is good and we can show her so many differnt things. i am not even sure what they are supposed to eat i just basically give her what we eat for dinner if she likes great if not we just keep trying.i have bought medium parrot food and mixed it with pellets but you know of course she only picks through it at the end of the night she has a huge pile of things she doesnt want to eat. anything you can help me with i would so appreciate it i just want to touch her. well i guess i will close this book and hope to hear from ya'll soon. thanx for listening.
Tinq

[DarinA]

How old is Bubbles? It is going to take some time to get her to let you handle her. One thing that will help some is to stop letting her have sunflower seeds. If they eat too many sunflower seeds that leads to aggression. She can eat anything you eat except apple seeds, chocolate, avocado, and coffee. Fruits, vegies, pellets, and some seeds is a good regime to go by. Sweet talking her and getting your attention is where to start, but plan on it taking some time. If her wings are not clipped, find a vet or breeder to clip them for you then she will be more dependent on you. This is a wonderful board to get your questions answered, ask anything and you will find out how nice and helpful everyone is.

[kyria]

Welcome to our wonderful family Tinq and bubbles and welcome to the boards.

You are already doing just great! After all you cared and took bubbles from a place where she/he was being neglected and now you care enough to search out help on the best for your IRN. Kudos to you and thankyou!

---------------------------------------------------

First thing to know is IRN's take alot of time and care. second thing is They "ARE" noisy and can scream alot, the contact call is the worst. Third is it will take an older untame IRN that was not handraised A LONG time to settle in to your home and you.

You will have to work with the bird as much as you can. One of the first things I would recommend for you to do is to have bubbles wings clipped if they are not already, to make it easier for you to teach and tame. Next concentrate on teaching bubbles to step up.

Approaching a bird that is not use to being handled is difficult but I found for Kai , the best way to begin this was to put my hands behind my back, to a bird your arms are a huge pair of wings and even a movement you think is slow could scare them. With hands behind your back stand as close to bubbles as you can and simply talk nicely to him/her (not sure if you know if its a he or she yet or how old ? etc.) anyway, it could take weeks of approaching and getting closer, earning trust. If you approach to try and get bubbles to step up, cross your arms in front of you and slow movements to reach out to her/him.

Another thing I learnt, IRN's don't like red, they can tell certain colours and red is danger, apparently even if you have red nails they may attack them. I tested this with Kai and it does seem to be true, he is very unsettled on me when I wear red.

Remember every bird has its own personality and learning
bubbles own personality is very important. What works with someone elses bird may not work with yours, so read read read read and try everything that is suggested, you will both learn each other very quickly.

Diet .. do not feed black sunflower seeds (to much fat) , no avacado , no coffee, chocolate , nothing too unaturally sweet or salted. Off the top of my head that is all I can think of right now.

Just know that, it will take time. With alot of time effort and love anything is possible.


Anyway thats my thoughts for suggestions right now. I am only new at this too (8 weeks an Owner), so the others on the boards will post more help for you I have no doubt on that.

Cheers ! and good luck


Andrea (Angie)

[Mikaela]

My Baby was once a vicious bird and I read sunflower seed could lead to aggression. I used sunflower seed as treats and in her seed because I was a new parront and didnt know any better.

I thought it was BS. But, for for the sake of curiousity I made her go cold turkey on the sunflower seed. Within a week, she was a totally different bird.

I absolutely believe in was the sunflower seed making her so aggressive because she wasnt as a baby and she isnt now that I removed sunflower seed from her diet.

[Neokireina]

the other option is the hands on approach. grab a pair of gloves and hold your bird. hold her, talk to her. Sit her on your hand in an unfamiliar room (needs to be unfamiliar) and just sit with her for a long time until she gets past the fear. Keep doing this daily until she is used to you. it will take a while. this is the method i use for my wayward cockatiels. who i had to teach how to step up. many bites and hours later they all know how to step up.

[kyria]

a couple of other things to know and remember:-

Keep the birds cage and playstand lower than you, if you can. If the bird is higher than you , they can feel superior or dominant.

They dont like to be looked in the eye, it un-nerves them.

When you teach bubbles to step up, don't mistake her gentle test, with her beak, for a bite. They will always grab the object they are going to step to as a test for stablility, if you pull away thinking its a bite she will soon not trust you with the step up.

Cheers!

[Tinquertoyz]

WOW thanx for all the replies!

First off let me start by saying Bubbles is a girl, and i was told she is now about 14 months old. give or take the age i am not totally positive.

I knew not to give her chocolate,avacodos and caffinated drinks. but thanx for the confirmation.

the cage i bought is at least 4 inches taller than me and the playstand (that i cannot get her to use) is on the side of it. i wish i could show the picture but dont know how. its a large parrot cage shaped like a house. its called a villa cage i guess. either way so yes its taller than me, i dont feel Bubbles and i are have that issue as of yet, she pretty awesome a side form the touching her thing, she calls me, i call her, she makes a game of it until i bring her food kind of thing. i got her to yell at the cat already for napping on her personal rug outside her cage door, gotten her to say hello to greet or when she wants my attention. i have gotten her to ding the bell by way of doing it my self then in a voice i use only for my pets (which she responds to brilliantly) and then she repaeted it. soaking up the goood girl bubbles, im so proud of you praise. she clowns around on the top of the cage showing out for me, then when i say i see you bubbles she makes a wierd noise and hops all over the cage top like o yea look at me. its quite funny (to me anyway) and she does it for a while. i dont know i any of you have had the pleasure of watching a lovebird clown around but you know how they like to look upside down at you it so cute but the point to that was when she eats or tries somthing new, she will do that sort of thing , then i do it back and so on then she will eat it instead of throwing it away. i tried the theory and spied, when i just put her food in her cage and walk away she will throw everything even the papya she likes on the ground until i say try some then she will eat if i sit down and watch her ( dont want her to starve because she is being a weirdo), so i have started to only fill her dry food ( like the pellet, medium bird mix stuff, with a dried fruits and greens) at 8 pm when i come home; and sit down to eat myself. i know this sounds wierd; but then she actually tries the new foods introduced(cooked or fresh), and alot less waste. she becomes more chatty and clownish after this time (this is when she did the bell thing) i was told i missed it.. tonight she actually went to her playstand for about 2 secs very upset i missed it, i have been hassling this poor kid every day trying to get her little butt on that playstand. (sigh) i feel i have made wonderful progress with her

that arm behind the back thing, i did that when i first went to get her you will never belive this i totally for got until i read that, when i went to get her out of the cage she didnt even fight or flip out i wil have to try that again THANX,

i am sure i am way off track now with this book i just get so excited talking about her, if you think this is bad should here me about the cats (matchy and magyn) and skittles the fuzzy hamster.

one other thing is how do i get her to play with her toys? get her to interact with things aside from needing to know my every move or where abouts when i am in the house.

she says somthing that sounds liek where are you... and she says it over and over again until i either say im in here what do you need, or im peeing (yes happens several times during the day) after i let her know where i am then she says hello. its like having a two year old i imagine

so for the short of time i have had her we have made some progress i try to get my guy more involved he tries but she hasnt taken to him like i was hoping for.

what kinds of food do your babies eat or have tried?
do any of you make your own treats or breads or something for them?
what types of toys do they like? (Bubbles wont play with any i have tried)



o yea , her wings are clipped. she doesnt really go anywhere and she is content with that, sometimes she take a circle flight for 1/2 a second around the living room then to her cage top or flies down to see skittles, cause i will ask her where is skittles and she looks down at his cage and now will fly to it she is so precise its really cool

ok last question and i will step away from this keyboard before you kick me out.

since she will not go out on the play stand and only sits on the top of the cage should i put somthing up there? but what could i with a triangle A frame type top.



ok thanx for listening and all the feed back i appreciate all the advice, you guys are truly great i am really glad i found you.
Tinq and Bubbles oxoxo

[kyria]

Aww! don't worry about the essay, I do them all the time. Just shows us how much you love your bubbles. Beside you are new and so have much to tell us and share with us.

If you are wanting to post an image to the boards, here is a link to another post from a new member that wanted to know how also, with answers on how:-

http://www.indianringneck.com/board/vie ... ing+images

When we sit down to eat, Kai will begin eating also, must be the social part of the flock thing they do.

Kai loves!! Corn he eats way too much corn

loves melon seeds ( I keep these as a treat, reward now)

pear, apple, squash, broccolli, pumpkin, boiled potatoe, lemongrass fresh from my garden.

Those are just his main favorites.

----
Melika posted this recipe for bread not long ago:-

I made birdy bread! A HUGE amount, lol, compared to the size of our IRNs. Hane needs to be on a diet, methinks.

Anyway here's the birdy bread making steps (commonly referred to as a "recipe")

1 box of corn muffin mix, and ignore the directions on it.
Washed, chopped veggies (1 or 1 1/2 cup at least)
Two eggs (in shell)


Preheat oven to 320 degrees F. Crush the eggs in a bowl then blend with a mixer to crush the shell some more (you can also put them in a blender and then add the liquid to the bowl). Mix in corn muffin mix. Chop your veggies to whatever your bird likes. Fold in chopped veggies to corn muffin/egg mixture. Add water, 1 tablespoon at a time until slightly soupy (maybe two or three tbs at most). Spread in 8 in. baking dish and bake on middle rack until inserted knife comes out clean.

notes: Depending on your oven, the top may get a tiny bit crispy, but that's okay. You may want to spray whatever you're baking in with a non-stick spray- but if you're like me you'll forget. You can also freeze the leftovers, but cut the birdy bread into serving sizes before freezing.
Let serving defrost before serving. ^^


This last batch I had cucumbers, carrots, snow peas, celery, and squash. ^^
-----------------

There are plenty more ideas for foods under the IRN Diet & Housing Forum, or you can do a keyword search for other topics/answers by using the search button at the top of the message board page.


I tempted Kai out of his cage and up onto his playstand simply by moving his food bowls there the first few times, just until he realised it was safe and a great deal of fun to come out and play. It took the full 8 weeks for him to become confident.

make it as fun as you can with all kinds of baby rings and toys and dog toys, balls, bells etc. for bubbles to play with.


Cheers!

Andrea (Angie)

[Bryan]

Wow! It’s taken me five hours to read this page lol, my eyes hurt. Any way ill just say that you may not be able to have your IRN on your shoulder and pat her because not all birds like that. I will tell you the BEST thing to do if you won't your bird closest to being tame is to spend as much time as possible with her like an hour or even more just talking and enjoy each others company because this will gain her trust in you even if you can't hold her and stoke her at least you will have gained her trust and friendship and that's really all you need from her. Good luck I wish you well

[Mikaela]

Neo: when I was a new parront I mentioned using gloves and everyone went ape on me.

God, settle down, right? So I never used gloves but NOW that my babies are tame and I am educated, gloves would have been fine. Especially considering I was going to use flesh colored golf gloves (very thin but would fend off any bite).

I could have interacted sooner. Tamed earlier. Been more interactive than I was without all of the nasty bites.

So, Im with you girl, gloves arent all that bad when it is your only option but it should be left as an only option and the glove should be as 'skin like' as possible or the bird will still be afraid when you take the glove off.

That is the only down side to gloves, you may get to handle your bird but it isnt teaching it your hands are its safe place. It isnt a great trust builder, in other words but then again, neither is no hands-on love.

That is my take on the issue. Had I had it all over to do again, I would have used a glove in the beginning to get MYSELF use to the bites, pressure and not to draw back.

[Dani03]

Wow I am sure glad I didn't really have to deal with hard bites. Sorry to be a party pooper but Prinny has only ever bitten me once and that was by accident. I was holding a tissue and she decided to attack it (yes tissues are her sworn enemy :giggles:) I can't really relate to those of you (Jen and Mikeala... ) who have had some nasty bites. I am a lucky one for sure. Even her bluffing stage went without too much problem. She mostly lunged but we took care of that in a jiff

Yes gloves are a good jumping point but only in the beginning. To get used to the bites and the feel of a larger bird on your hand but if you ever want that bird to trust you and your hands you better get rid of them fast! Sorry if anyone has ever jumped to hard on anyone case, of course that is not the intention. Hope you all have a great day!

Dani and Prinny

[Mikaela]

Hind-sight 20/20 I am glad I was told not to use gloves because it made me suck it up and allow my birds to trust me sooner. But if it means you are going to leave it caged, grab some gloves and get your courage up.

[kyria]

Both of kai's bites were in the first week of having him and out of fear, not anger/attacking me. The good thing about it is I know what they are like and what to expect, and even though they hurt, I am in no way scared of Kai now (been there done that). And anyway, anything I cop from him now would be an accident.

[jen5239]

I can attest to the massive amounts of pain when they bite! Wow! My Byndi has left my hands scarred for life. Literally. But I love him with all my heart and soul and he still WON'T step up and sit on my hand! He will eventually climb on to my hand when he's tried to escape from me when I'm trying to get him out of his cage and he tries to fly and ends up on the floor. Depending on his mood he either steps on to my hand nicely or he bites the crap out of me and then flutters to my shoulder. Last night he bit the crap out of me and Monday night he just got right on to my hand nice as can be. The bites are NO FUN, but the birds are. And the relationship with the birds is so worth it. Byndi isn't the bird I hoped I would have. But when I was able to find him a new home (THANKS MUCH TO DARIN AND FAMILY!!!) it broke my heart and I couldn't let him go. So I don't get to play with him and interact much, but I do manage to get him out of his cage and let him hang on my shoulder and let him hang on the playstand. And I love him with all my heart. I think I've gotten off the subject. Sorry. But Byndi bites the heck out of me and it's bled and scarred and hurt like a you know what. But it's all worth it! Cuz I love him!

[kyria]

You are a good woman Jen and Byndi is lucky to have you

[Jade]

I second that comment, Jen has a fantastic heart and I'm glad she kept Byndi because others may not be so kind or patient (unless he became an aviary bird).

I want to know what you can do to protect you ears!! Chuckles is going through the bluffing stage but has learned that finger biting I can manage but then he took a chomp on my ear - very hard to hide the pain!

- no I can't not allow him on my shoulder because he's an aviary bird and he drops onto me from various branches, toys or even the roof - little bugger.

[Neokireina]

there is no such thing as height related dominance when it comes to birds. Higher just means harder for you to reach and makes them feel safer.

I guess with my birds whenever they get a little feisty and decide to bite me (not to draw blood they just get a little excited) Kiva bit my finger today and I clamped my thumb over his beak and held him on there. He couldnt let go until I let his beak go. He also tried to bite Growl's foot, this was a mistake when sitting on my hand hehe. I put my thumb over his foot and stopped that in its tracks. No punishment, just distraction enough to have him worry about something else.

I cant blame Kiva for his agression. He is jealous of the other birds spending time with me. I dont have six shoulders so they have to learn to share.
Also there is displaced agression to worry about. If Kiva cant bite growls because he is jealous of Growls spending time with mummy. He might bite mummy. Which would be a bad idea because mummy isnt scared of a naughty green fid. Actually he takes his agression out on my engagement ring

[kyria]

I had heard that same thing Neo. I had heard that a gentle shake if they are on your hand when they bite would unbalance them, make them let go and think twice about doing it again. The second bite I had from Kai I had done just that. Coincidence or not he has never bitten me again. Thanks for clearing up that there is no such thing as height related dominance. I had been told there was.

Cheers!

Andrea (Angie)

[Neokireina]

Birds are really hard to understand who knows why they do the things they do. My Breeder has hand raised IRNs in the aviary that come up to you and want to bite the crap outta you. They are hand raised and have no fear. One even talks to you while he's eyeing off your soft meaty bits.

[Tinquertoyz]

bubbles thank fully has never bitten me. i guess last night while i was at work bubbles decided to hunt me down flew into our room and somehow got herself in the closet.(i know she had to be so scared and i wast here to make sure she knew she was ok. matt says he knew she would never find her way out so he went in there to get her after a i guess a few minutes of flippin out he trhew a towel over her and took her to her room (cage) when i got home from work . i was like hi bubbles hello how are you what are you doing and she just sat thre didnt say a word so of course i immediatly asked what the u know what happened to her because she will go nuts to interact when i get home. so then i heard the whole story my poor baby was probably scared to death. well she ios calling me so i will make this short thanx again fo rall the advise.
Tami

[kyria]

Tami, this kinds of event just marks the beginning of a wonderful and fantastic rollercoaster journey and relationship of you and your bubbles, each and every episode good or bad is simply building on your experience together

Cheers !

Andrea (Angie)