Please help! What colour/mutation is this hen?

[PaigeLouise1]

Hello!

Someone on the forum suggested I might have better luck if I posted in this section.. so here goes- hope someone can help!

I have had these ringneck for over a year now and I have no idea what 'type' (mutation I guess) she is.

She breeds with a blue male so her babies have been blue.

The grey spots on her back are a new addition- not sure if its due to the breeding?

I will try and add a better photo of the front of her but she doesn't like staying still!




PaigeLouise1

Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:06 am
Location: Queensland Australia
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[AussieParrots]

A skyblue lacewing (pallid)? A grey blue? I'm only guessing!!

Do you know what her parents were?

[Coastal-Birds]

Hi
I would say a blue lacewing but flights seem to be to dark.
But there are about 12 different genetic make ups of lacewings.
Here there are a few commonly seen such as lacewings with white flights white people call pallidinos but you cant have hens in them,cocks only.
Then there are cinnamon pallid cross overs,i have one and yet to find another but they would be about.
The grey well could be due to molting diet.Grey and blue are on the same gene so its either blue or grey you see you cant get both.
If you knew the parents it might help but then if it is 1 out of the 12 different lacewing types it gets real hard without photos of them to work out what your dealing with.
Cheers

[Recio]

Hi,

To me this female is a pallid blue with somekind of problem (diet, illness, hormonal, ...?) not related to a colour mutation.
Why?
1. The bird did not display this kind of markings before.
2. If it was a grey mutation there would not be visual blue.
3. In pallid females there is not any melanin in the head, and this female displays grey markings everywere, including the head.
4.If it was a pied, markings would be displayed as white patches in blue or grey areas (patches would appear in areas with melanin) but not as grey patches in areas devoided of melanin (head in blue pallids).

Regards
Recio

[Coastal-Birds]

Hi
Or is she a white head blue cinnamon(not whwt)
Here in Australia there are blue cinnamons with white heads,these are not pallidinos nor lacewings.
I have 2 like this now but i cant work out what they are exactly nor where the white head comes from in them.
I have also seen grey cinnamon(silvers) here like it to.

[Coastal-Birds]

If you go to this website it shows you the different crossovers and types of lacewing that can be produced.

http://www.euronet.nl/users/dwjgh/ringneck.htm

So a lacewing is not always just a lacewing.
Cheers

[Recio]

Grey and blue are on the same gene so its either blue or grey you see you cant get both.

Hi Todd,

Just a little correction: grey and blue are not in the same gen. Grey and blue are in the same cromossome, like SL-ino and cinnamon or opaline are in the same cromossome (X), but in different genes (they are not different alleles of the same gen as pallid and SL-ino). The bird appears either blue or grey because grey colouring is the expresion of the grey mutation in the blue series (the grey colour needs to be seen an altered feather estructure due to the grey mutation and the exclusion of psitacines due to the blue mutation). You can not see a grey bird which does not carry the blue mutation.
Since grey and blue are in the same cromossome, they are linked, like opaline, SL-ino, and cinnamon, and there can be possible combos of grey with all the alleles of the blue locus (blue, turquoise and acqua).

Best regards and thanks for what you know

Recio

[Coastal-Birds]

LOL
Yes i stand corrected,thanks Recio.
My plain english does not always come out right when i type things but i try to keep it simple for new people without going into the hard stuff.
By the way how you going with the gift i sent you,so many possiblities dont you think now????.

[Recio]

Hi Todd

Your gift is working properly but my head works far mor slowly ...

When speaking about combos of cin-ino it is widely accepted that the unexpected yellow-green colour was due to an interference of the metabolic pathway of both pigments leading to the presence of a light layer of melanin which could not be eliminated by the ino mutation (there was a deeper discussion with Jay several months ago ... I really miss him in the forum). The question is: if we add a mutation removing psitacines (blue) ... the combo cin-ino will always display a residual melanin layer? If it was the case then we could think that the residual melanin we find in the combo cin-ino does not depend of metabolic interactions but of genetic regulation at the time of transcription (both genes are very closely located and its crossing-over rate is very low : 3%).

About the pic: it is a female so there are not many possibilities of genetic make up regarding interactions between cin and pallid-ino:

1. Z ino / W ................................ (ino)

2. Z ino pd / W ............................ (pallid)

3. Z cin_ino / W ........................... (cinnamon-ino combo after crossing over)

4. Z cin_ino pd/ W ......................... (cinnamon-pallid combo after crossing over)

She is not either ino or pallid. Cinnamon-ino combo would display a head with the same colour than the body. So, the question is:
Is she a cinnamon-pallid combo in the blue serie? May be if there were not the grey markings.
And a cinnamon-pallid combo blue and grey? May be but I see blue which should be masked by grey
And a cinnamon-pallid combo blue, grey and pied? All the "buts" of above and another one: but the head is white (not melanin) and piedness needs areas with melanin to be expressed.

It would be of help to know something about her parents and offspring, but I am quite sure that it is problem related to illnes, diet, ... We will see with the next moulting.

Cheers

Recio

[Recio]

Grey and blue are on the same gene so its either blue or grey you see you cant get both.

Hi Todd,

Just a little correction: grey and blue are not in the same gen. Grey and blue are in the same cromossome, like SL-ino and cinnamon or opaline are in the same cromossome (X), but in different genes (they are not different alleles of the same gen as pallid and SL-ino). The bird appears either blue or grey because grey colouring is the expresion of the grey mutation in the blue series (the grey colour needs to be seen an altered feather estructure due to the grey mutation and the exclusion of psitacines due to the blue mutation). You can not see a grey bird which does not carry the blue mutation.
Since grey and blue are in the same cromossome, they are linked, like opaline, SL-ino, and cinnamon, and there can be possible combos of grey with all the alleles of the blue locus (blue, turquoise and acqua).

This is time to correct myself: all what is written above about genetics (in red colour) is right for dark and blue, but not for blue and grey.
Blue and grey are not in the same gen and are not in the same cromosome. They are completely independents each other.
Sorry for the confusion

Recio