Biting me when not given a treat

bluepepe09 · Post by **bluepepe09** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:44 am

All seems to be going well with my ringneck been 3 weeks now, I usually let him out for 30 ins or so then try to handle him. he steps onto my finger when I have a treat for him, sits next to us and will let me stroke him while eating a treat, and is landing on our heads & sits cleaning our hair and getting into all sorts of other mischief (lol).

But.... if I approach him and do not have a treat that he can see he bites, and lunges, and has started making a growling noise sometimes, this has also started while he is in his cage, I bought an outsite wooden toy with perches, foodbowls and a swing to try and stop him becoming terratorial with his cage.

This lunging/biting seems to be getting worse, His pupils are becoming more visible now and he does not seem to be bluffing. I say no when he tries to bite and dont give him a treat until he is good.

Is there any way that I can stop this?

Should I always have a treat when I go near him to prevent this?

Have I been training him wrong?

I was hoping that he would realise that my hand means treat by now, and that I could pick him up then treat him.

Please Help

Thanks

SkyBaby · Post by **SkyBaby** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:19 am

I think what you're experiencing is why some say it's bad to include treats in the train process. I didn't give treats to Skye when I was taming him.

Not sure how to go about fixing this though. Good luck!

*Edited.. I didn't treat him regularly I meant to say.

bluepepe09 · Post by **bluepepe09** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:38 am

Has anyone else had similar consequences when using treats to train?

If so, did you just continue with the treats? or should you alter the training process to compensate.

Im at a bit of a loss here, dont know what to do

any ideas anyone?

SkyBaby · Post by **SkyBaby** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:22 am

Upon thinking about it more.. I have a bit more to add if that's ok with you.

Here goes.

It appears to me he is quite tame, he just picked up a bad habit.

Definitely alter the taming/training process. Change the time you're treating him. Ditch the treats for now though. You may have to suffer a few bites for this, but if it works out, it will all be worth it. Keep some bandaids handy.

It appears he's disciplining you for not having treats. That's the bad habit I'm talking about.

Start approaching him with no treats. Do this both with him outside and inside his cage. Every time he bites or even lunges, very calmly stand up and walk away, leaving him alone for a minute or so. He'll eventually understand that biting gets him completely ignored. When he doesn't bite, you can offer him a treat. Don't do it every time he gets it right or you'll be back on square one again. I treated sporadically when Skye did what I wanted him to do. Sometimes no treat, sometimes a whole jackpot of 3-4 treats. Make it as unexpected for him as possible.

I think that may be the best way to change his bad habit. It may take weeks, even months for him to break it.

U.S Marine · Post by **U.S Marine** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:06 pm

A bad habit indeed

, try what Sky told you to do

.

bluepepe09 · Post by **bluepepe09** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:01 am

Progress Update

Well I actually tend to think he is bluffing now, I got a good look at his eyes in daylight today and you can see the pupils of his eyes are very small. (about a third of the full size), this does not change when I shade his eyes from daylight.

He is very noisy at the moment, and biting everything apart from when he is eating and cleaning himself. But as I say very good when distracted with a treat/chew toy.

I know you suggested using that buddy perch sky, but was wondering if I may be better using a treat or chew toy to divert his beak and keep handling him until the bluffing settles. then introduce with the hand and no treat gradually.

Thanks again for the help.

U.S Marine · Post by **U.S Marine** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:22 am

True, he might be bluffing. Using a treat or chew toy to divert his beak and keep handling him until the bluffing settles. then introduce with the hand and no treat gradually. That is fine, its up to you really.

But what Sky said seems like a great plan with the perch.

Yet with the buddy perch, he may pick up a bad habit wen
you try to perch him with your normal hand.

bluepepe09 · Post by **bluepepe09** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:39 am

U.S Marine wrote:True, he might be bluffing. Using a treat or chew toy to divert his beak and keep handling him until the bluffing settles. then introduce with the hand and no treat gradually. That is fine, its up to you really.

But what Sky said seems like a great plan with the perch.
Yet with the buddy perch, he may pick up a bad habit wen
you try to perch him with your normal hand.

Hmm, maybe ill keep trying with a treat/bit leather that he likes to chew on just now then.......alternating between them.

He will step up onto the perch already, but maybe best I dont use that just yet unless things get really bad.

Its really quite difficult to see sometimes, the lighter parts of his eyes are just starting to come through. but they seem quite small.

Should the pupils be quite large most of the time?

U.S Marine · Post by **U.S Marine** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:06 am

Don't matter about his pupils. Just keep trying with the perch, over time you can then say if it really works or not. Hang in there.

bluepepe09 · Post by **bluepepe09** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:36 am

U.S Marine wrote:Don't matter about his pupils. Just keep trying with the perch, over time you can then say if it really works or not. Hang in there.

Trying to hang in....Not easy sometimes

Tried him with the treat again last night to see what would happen and sure enough was absolutely perfect...Let me stroke his back...Got him to step up and step down a few times. He seems to be a real fast learner but cant seem to get him to realise that if he bites my finger he gets no treat.

I think it is like a game to him now. (little bugger) He actually flew onto my hand last night and bit my finger. And landed on the table when we were eating tea and tried to eat from the bag of croutons.....lol

Think I may buy that buddy perch in a week or so. Keep up with the treats/chews just now. Maybe if I keep up with this he may learn hand means treat and not bite.

Does reverse psycology work with ringnecks ;)

U.S Marine · Post by **U.S Marine** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:57 am

bluepepe09 wrote:
U.S Marine wrote:Don't matter about his pupils. Just keep trying with the perch, over time you can then say if it really works or not. Hang in there.
Trying to hang in....Not easy sometimes

Tried him with the treat again last night to see what would happen and sure enough was absolutely perfect...Let me stroke his back...Got him to step up and step down a few times. He seems to be a real fast learner but cant seem to get him to realise that if he bites my finger he gets no treat.

I think it is like a game to him now. (little bugger) He actually flew onto my hand last night and bit my finger. And landed on the table when we were eating tea and tried to eat from the bag of croutons.....lol

Think I may buy that buddy perch in a week or so. Keep up with the treats/chews just now. Maybe if I keep up with this he may learn hand means treat and not bite.

Does reverse psycology work with ringnecks ;)

Sounds like all is going well, maybe you don't have to spend money on the buddy perch. I see you got a photo of him/her on your avatar, looks good.

bluepepe09 · Post by **bluepepe09** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:16 pm

Made some real progress tonight

Worked out that if I make a fist and he cant really see my fingers he gives a wee nibble, then when i nudge him he steps up with no treat, and then is getting rewarded.

Think that is the mistake I was making, letting him see the treat before getting him to step up...DOH!!

Got him to do this 3 times tonight on the trot.

Having a bit of a problem getting him to go back to his cage....But held him gently while i put him in so he could not fly and he was ok.

Destroying his weekly millet to celebrate ;)

Feeling a bit more confident today

Lets hope thats the way forward, Maybe try the fingers again in a week or so...Let them heal first.

SkyBaby · Post by **SkyBaby** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:31 pm

bluepepe09 wrote:Made some real progress tonight

Worked out that if I make a fist and he cant really see my fingers he gives a wee nibble, then when i nudge him he steps up with no treat, and then is getting rewarded.

Think that is the mistake I was making, letting him see the treat before getting him to step up...DOH!!

Got him to do this 3 times tonight on the trot.

Having a bit of a problem getting him to go back to his cage....But held him gently while i put him in so he could not fly and he was ok.

Destroying his weekly millet to celebrate ;)

Feeling a bit more confident today

Lets hope thats the way forward, Maybe try the fingers again in a week or so...Let them heal first.

That's wonderful! That's a really good idea with the fist. Making a fist draws your skin tight so he can't grab on. Really good idea! Keep it up! That is wonderful. I'll remember that fist thing for if/when my little guy goes through bluffing. (DNA test results are in and he is in fact a boy!^_^) Keep me posted! Sorry I missed you on YIM. I didn't get home until 8pm my time. I'll be on tomorrow sometime

U.S Marine · Post by **U.S Marine** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:56 pm

bluepepe09 wrote: Think that is the mistake I was making, letting him see the treat before getting him to step up...DOH!!

I think so now.

bluepepe09 · Post by **bluepepe09** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:56 pm

Quick update..

Has started biting the back of my hand now.

Any ideas

Possibly something in Kevlar

U.S Marine · Post by **U.S Marine** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:16 am

Just let him bite it, lols. He might be testing you out, just let him know you are the boss. Ignore it.