about surrogacy

[rebecca malka]

I am in a situation in which I need an answer from someone who knows. As you all know I have IRNs. Recently (3weeks ago) some babies hatched. Sunshine and Danny the parent birds have not been feeding the little one hatching very much and I am finding whole nuts, pecans, in the box. Obviously they think that a three week old feeds itself as they do. Sunshine was purchased by us and we were told that she had laid eggs before. She does seem to have very little inclination of how to parent. Princess by blue female was purchased as well from another shop which also said she had laid eggs before. She also let her little one die after 5 days and in her box were nuts as well. Which brings us to the conclusion that birds who had laid eggs before but never parented them lack those skills. Maman on the other hand the mate of Pirate(papagaillo) was a chick when we purchased her and had never laid eggs prior to hooking up with Pirate. Last year she gave us Angel and Charile who turn one on 06/04/2009 and 07/04/2009. This year she also gave us two chicks and she feeds them very well and Pirate is an active dad, always feeding as well. My question is if I put the baby which is not being fed by its Parents Sunshine and Danny , is it known if Maman and Pirate will accept it and feed it as their other two? Someone please answer with the TRUE knowledge of bird rearing not just guessing. Thank you for you time awaiting your responses based on actual facts, about surrogacy after hatching. Rebecca

[U.S Marine]

So you are asking if it is SAFE to put the eggs laid from Sunshine & Danny which lack parenting skills, To put the eggs under Maman and Pirate's wing?

I just broke the question down for some one who knows this, In the mean time I'll try to find an answer.

[kyria]

I hope you don't mind me moving this post so that you get better and faster help on this.

Myself, I cannot answer as I have never dealt with surrogacy in IRN or any birds for that matter. But hopefully now that the thread is moved to a forum where breeders will read it you will get an answer.

Cheers and Good Luck

[Jay]

I am in a situation in which I need an answer from someone who knows. As you all know I have IRNs. Recently (3weeks ago) some babies hatched. Sunshine and Danny the parent birds have not been feeding the little one hatching very much and I am finding whole nuts, pecans, in the box. Obviously they think that a three week old feeds itself as they do. Sunshine was purchased by us and we were told that she had laid eggs before. She does seem to have very little inclination of how to parent. Princess by blue female was purchased as well from another shop which also said she had laid eggs before. She also let her little one die after 5 days and in her box were nuts as well. Which brings us to the conclusion that birds who had laid eggs before but never parented them lack those skills. Maman on the other hand the mate of Pirate(papagaillo) was a chick when we purchased her and had never laid eggs prior to hooking up with Pirate. Last year she gave us Angel and Charile who turn one on 06/04/2009 and 07/04/2009. This year she also gave us two chicks and she feeds them very well and Pirate is an active dad, always feeding as well. My question is if I put the baby which is not being fed by its Parents Sunshine and Danny , is it known if Maman and Pirate will accept it and feed it as their other two? Someone please answer with the TRUE knowledge of bird rearing not just guessing. Thank you for you time awaiting your responses based on actual facts, about surrogacy after hatching. Rebecca

I do surrogate/foster chicks (and eggs for that matter) sometimes. It's okay to do it. IRNs can't count and IRNs can't reason. So they won't know that they are now feeding an extra set of mouths. A chick begging for food is going to be fed.

Just note the following precautions:

1. You can only foster chicks under another set of parents that has chicks as well.

2. Make sure the gap is not too big. For example, you should not foster a day old chick under a pair that has 2 week old chicks. The bigger chicks will just trample on the little one.

3. If you think parents are not feeding chicks, then you may think about fostering eggs rather than chicks. To be more efficient, foster only fertile eggs and remove non-fertile eggs under the foster parents.

4. On the second clutch, give the derelict parents one or two eggs to practice rearing their young. When the chicks hatch, monitor their feeding. Most newborns don't have the energy to cry and beg for for food. It's a tough job to get out of that egg shell especially if the eggshells are over-calcified. So try to give the baby a boost feeding. Be very careful as over feeding will suffocate and kill a baby. Imran has an excellent article on feeding newborns. http://www.indianringneck.com/handfeed/.

Some IRNs take time to become good parents, but some may never will. But you have to give them a chance.

By the way, please use paragraph so it will be easier to read your post

[Recio]

2. Make sure the gap is not too big. For example, you should not foster a day old chick under a pair that has 2 week old chicks. The bigger chicks will just trample on the little one.

Hello, Rebeca;

Just in case the difference of age was too big, and if you have the time, something you can do is to take the bigger chicks out of the next for 15-20 min 4-6 times everyday in order to allow foster parents to feed the smallest birds without concurrence.

For future breeding it will be good to put an experienced male or female with an un-experienced one. In this way you will be sure that at least one of the parents will properly feed the chicks and, probably, it will help the other to learn.

Good luck