screaming update

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tzigane
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screaming update

Post by tzigane »

A couple of months ago I posted a topic about my IRN, Cha-cha, screaming all of the time. I've been working with him as previously suggested and by letting him visit with my other birds which are cockatiels. I've been making a point of spending more time with him and allowing him to be in the room where I'm spending the majority of my time. As I posted previously, I've tried numerous other things to get him to shut up but to no avail. I have to admit now that I've been doing what I have things are getting better but not by much. Here is the current status of things:

Unless Cha-cha is physically in the cage with the cockatiels at all times that he's not with me, he screams until I cover him up to make him settle down. But it's not fair to him to keep his cage covered. What I have ended up doing is only covering the side where he can see me and allowing him to still be able to see the other birds and out of the windows of the house. I would house him in the same cage because it's large enough but I'm afraid one of the smaller birds will get hurt and that wouldn't be fair to put them in that kind of predicament. I've discusses with my husband, how to separate a part of the cage for him but we've not come up with a suitable solution for that yet.

I have tried walking out of the room when he screams badly but that only makes him call out louder and more incessantly. Good thing that I don't live in an apartment building because I would've been evicted by now! :)

Even if he is in the same room with me, unless he's got my undivided attention he will just scream incessantly. I cannot allow Cha-cha to sit on my shoulder because he also likes to bite for a reaction which is another problem altogether that I won't address here: but that seems to be the only solution that makes him happy when he's with me.

Whenever he's behaving as I would like I always go over to his cage, give him a treat and/or talk to him but as soon as I turn to walk away he makes the most obnoxious and ugly sound and bites at the bars of his cage or lunges in my direction.

I have even resorted to playing a training CD to teach Cha-cha how to say a new word or two, since he doesn't seem to be learning from me, which keeps him quiet while it's on but as soon as it's turned off he just starts screaming again.

I've tried to engage him in some games I've learned from other folks I know that have birds but he doesn't seem too interested in them.

I've had Cha-cha for at about 5 years and I love him but I'm coming to the conclusion that this problem is WAY more than I seem to be able to handle and I cannot afford to take him to a behaviour expert. Also, I'd like to say that I do realize that some of the vocalizations parrots make are very loud (fine, goes with the territory) but I don't believe that every single sound they produce is intended to be at maximum volume. I'm getting to my wits end. Perhaps he would be better off with a breeder or with a mate since he seems to be the kind of bird who needs constant attention. For now I've been letting him spend as much time as he pleases with my cockatiels during the day so he is good but as soon as he goes back to his own cage which is right next to theirs he's back to screaming unless he is covered up for the night. The only exception to this rule is when I give my birds a shower, he quiet for a while afterwards while he preens and dries himself but otherwise he just starts again. Don't get me wrong, Cha-cha's come a long way since I first got him, at least now he has some quiet times which he didn't have at all when I first brought him home, but for being as intelligent as parrots are he sure is taking his sweet ol' time getting the point!

Is there anything that I'm doing wrong or anything else I could try?
Tzigane
ringneck
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Post by ringneck »

Nope, you're doing everything right. Let me think about this...i'll try to find another way or angle to attack the problem.

Best Wishes

I.C. :wink:

Hang in there....
Misty_Anikin
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Post by Misty_Anikin »

Tzigane,

Screming can easily become a learned behavior in pet parrots as it seems with your IRN. Excessive screaming usually means something is wrong. This can range from simple things such as disliking the placement of his cage or a person to more seroius things like certain medical or psychological problems. Are you the first owner??? Some birds learn screaming behaviors from previous owners. There may be things that you do or that he is around that sets off his screaming. You may not be aware of them becuse they are things that the previous owner did. If you are the fist owner then this may not be the case.

It is possible that you may be able to lessen the yelling and change the screaming behavior of the bird. As you already know it takes great amounts of patients and work. Try to find what really sets off the bird and also see if it's at certain times of the day. I would start there; by making small changes and seeing how he reacts to them. Do realize that change if any will most likely be small. If there is any positive change though reinforce it as best you can! Since it is an instinctive behavior as well you must expect him to chirp, sceam, or yell certain times of the day which is usually early in the morning and before sunset.

There are also many affordalbe books, videos, and tapes that teach techniqes to try and distract or calm the screaming in parrots. If all esle fails this might be the way to go. Another thing though is that your bird may be set in his ways with the screaming and you might not be able to alter his behavior. Only time will tell.

Sectioning off part of the cage so that he can be coser to your cockatiels is a great idea! It seems to me that Cha-cha wants a birdie companion. If you can find a way to fix up their cages I think that that would probably be your best bet to keep him a little quieter throuhout the day. Keep in mind that housing him so close to other birds may distance him form you, but if you are set on keeping him and fixing the problem that just might be your solution. You also mentioned something about a mate. I think that that could go 2 ways; he might be very well behaved like he is with your cockatiels OR he may teach the other bird his screaming pattern! In any case it sounds to me that you are doing all you can so GOOD LUCK, I hope you find a soulution to his screaming. I will keep my eyes open for any new information or articles that may help. :)

-Misty
tzigane
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Thanks I.C. & Misty

Post by tzigane »

Thanks to you both for confirming that I am doing all I can to rectify this situation. It's nice to have that positive reinforcement. I've still been trying to figure out if anything is preceding these tantrums (for I can really call them nothing else) but have only come up with the following:

:arrow: As soon as ChaCha can seem me or my husband in a room close by he will scream to try to get our attention. We've been leaving the room as instructed but I've only noticed a very slight tapering off of the habit; not really what I would consider an improvement.
:arrow: The only certain time of the day that ChaCha starts his little seranading is about 7:30pm. So I cover him up for the night which works quite nicely. Also, seems to me that he likes being covered for the night and this is his way of asking.

Misty, one thing that I have done recently is move the bird cages so that ChaCha is closer to his cockatiel friends. All I have to do is put a long perch btwn the cages and they can go back & forth visiting when they're out of their cages. Also, I appreciate your reminding me that parrots, like other animal companions, can teach each other the bad habits as well as the good! :wink: To answer another question you had: ChaCha was about 5 years old when we took him in. He's now about 10, I figure, since he's been with us about 5 years.

Well, with all of that said, I guess all I can do is keep working at it as I have been. I guess the only question that remains is: If this screaming is a learned behaviour that I'm not going to be able to change how can we learn to make the living situation easier on us all? Certainly food for thought, huh? Thanks again for all your help and I'll keep you posted in regard to any progress.

Tzigane
Misty_Anikin
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Post by Misty_Anikin »

Tzigane,

I was looking around for techniques/ways you could help Cha-Cha with his screaming; I think I may have found something I haven't seen mentioned to you before. If you go to this link:
:arrow: http://www.parrotchronicles.com/departm ... havior.htm

Read through this article. The technique is described under "Whistles Instead of Screams." (Scroll almost to the bottom of the page) Basically it is training your bird to call you with a whistle instead of a yell and positively reinforcing the accepted behavior. Read the article for a better insight to what I'm suggesting. Let me know if you have tried this before?

:idea: Also I think something was mentioned about training, if your bird is tame enough I don't think it's ever too late. Some training will help teach him some much needed dicipline, which I'm positive would also hlep to improve his screaming. Dicipline, something I need to teach more of to my little birdie! He keeps jumping on my keyboard as I'm typing this post, that he already erased once!! :?

:?: You asked if you can't change the behavior how can you make it easier on everyone. I think that if by covering his cage he quiets down then there is no harm in keeping it covered for him. Or by keeping him with other birds, spending time with him whatever you are willing to do to keep him queit and happy! The amount of work you put into it is up to you. My friend also has an IRN, when he (the IRN) is ready to go to sleep he will call to them to cover his cage. He also does this if his cage is not clean! He is telling them to come do it otherwise he lets them know he is not happy about it. If these things are done however he is queit as can be!So, even if you feel it's unfair to Cha-Cha to cover his cage so often, if it's what makes him feel safe and secure then no harm done! Obviously no change in his behavior would be the worst case scenario, but I'm sure we'll find something that helps hopefully. :) Hope this helps!
-Misty
tzigane
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whistling to call

Post by tzigane »

Misty:
I have to admit I haven't tried this before. It's possible that I've seen something regarding this type of training before but I don't really recall. ChaCha knows how to say "Come here" and he does have, what I refer to as, his "Come hither" whistle. I will try to see if that works. What a great suggestion, I wish I had thought of it myself. I even subscribe to the Parrot Chronicles but don't think I ran across that article before.

Side note: ChaCha has been visiting with his cockatiel friends all day and has been positively golden today!
Have a great day!
tzigane
ringneck
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Post by ringneck »

LoL!!! I was just looking at that article! It's really great! I was going to post it but misty beat me to the punch! :wink:

I was trying to look for something new to help chacha with her screaming. How are things going with Cha Cha? Any luck?

Thanks

I.C.
tzigane
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Hey, I.C. - ChaCha update

Post by tzigane »

Things with ChaCha are somewhat improved. But only slightly. I have moved his cage to a nice sunny spot where he can see all the people that walk by on our street, which has a lot of foot traffic, and he can see if anyone is on our front porch. No sneaking up on us, ChaCha's a great watch-birdie! As soon as someone comes up on the porch he starts calling very loudly so I know to come and look. Perhaps it will give him an outlet for his vocal calls. Also, I have a long wooden dow I put between his cage and that of my cockatiels so that when they're all out for a play or shower he can go over an visit back and forth as he pleases. Although, if ChaCha has it his way he would live with the cockatiels. I HAVE FINALLY determined that he screams when no one is paying attention to him or he wants to go visit his friends. Usually, I wait until he stops or calms down then I will go in an talk to him, give him a treat and tell him that he's being a good birdie and will either let him out to goof off on his own or spend some time with him.

Right now his favourite game is to play nice then out of the blue bite my hand to see what I will do. When he does that I try to ignore it or distract him with something else to bite like a toy. Otherwise, his screaming seems to becoming a bit less but he still has his moments. I'm starting to think that his previous family just TOTALLY ignored him. I've also been trying to teach him some new phrases both from myself and a recording but I've not had any success with that at all.
Have a great day!
tzigane
David
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Post by David »

Have you considered how you entertain him while your not thier, maybe the problem lies on him getting so worked up while your out that he's forced to scream for your undivided attention.

Do you leave the T.V. or the Radio on during the day when your not thier, or when your not near the bird, like for example hanging the washing out etc. and how much time does your husband spend with him, maybe it might be good to get some attention from your hubby so that cha cha's attention is not totally focussed on you! i'm not saying that you both have to spend every spare moment with him, but fluctuate your attention.

Buy a few spare toys or swap toys around with the other birds so he gets a change regular. I've read that they require change in order to stimulate thier happyness.

Has he got a favourite toy?? if so when he starts squarking take the toy out of his cage and leave it in plain open view, then when he quiets put the toy back and use a certain phrase to praise him such as "clever boy" or something (a bit like rubbing a puppies nose in his do do) spite him in a clever way to encourage him not to scream.

Hope these few comments are any sort-of useful and good luck! :wink:
Green Indian Ring Neck Called Bobby!
tzigane
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Good ideas, David!

Post by tzigane »

Thanks for the tips! I will try those along with everything else I'm working on. I do not always leave the radio or TV on for ChaCha but maybe I will start doing so. I also have a training CD for whistles and talking. I was using that for awhile but ChaCha just seemed to get more worked up once it was turned off. Perhaps he wanted it back on?! (Jeez, that never even occured to me until just now.)

Although earlier today ChaCha was calling to be uncovered and after I did so, I gave him a new treat that he seems to be loving, frosted shredded wheat cereal! Now he's happily munching away on those and probably some peanuts too! Right now he's being a model birdie!
Have a great day!
tzigane
ringneck
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Post by ringneck »

Hey Tzigane,

It’s good to hear from you! I was wondering how Cha Cha was doing. I am happy to hear the screaming has stopped a bit, but keep doing what you’re doing and in no time he’ll learn that you mean business. Plus, he’ll think that being quiet is going to get your attention. Again, hang in there and I commend you for taking this task on. I know it seems unbearable now, but his mind was programmed to makes noise as a means for attention. Progresses is slow, but look at it this way, you have enriched his life to its fullest and it seems he loves you to death. :D

Also, you had me laughing about his biting game! I know what you mean. When my brother’s female Ringneck was going through the bluffing stage, she would start to cluck and make all kinds of noises. She used that as a hook, and like a dumb fish, I would go to her. Then her eyes would pin and bam, she would give me a nasty bite. LoL!!! Sometimes it makes you wonder what is going on in their brains. Ohh well, I guess love hurts :lol: :lol:

David gave some good advice; I would have never thought to cover it from that angle. It always helps when you have other members look at the problem form a different angle. Let me know how it goes!

It’s good to hear from you again! :wink:

Best wishes

I.C.
tzigane
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ChaCha's got a new angle now, I think I've created a monster

Post by tzigane »

Okay all, ready for this one? ChaCha's new screaming angle is this: he just does it constantly until he gets his way even when he's covered up! Seems I've created a monster! The more I try to break this habit the worse he gets. Let me back up a bit.

I've been letting ChaCha spend time with my cockatiels (4) so he gets some birdie interaction that he seems to crave when he's not spending time with me or my husband. Although when he gets to go visit he's like the Thing That Never Leaves! He'll stay in the cockatiel cage (it's about 3'w x 3'h x 2.5'd) ALL, and I do mean all, ALL DAY. Most of the time I don't mind and neither do the cockatiels but some days I feel that each should have some "personal" space. Maybe that's a fallacy on my part since birds ARE flock animals. Other times I let him go over to the cockatiel cage but I don't let him in because my one cockatiel, Ricki, believe it or not, will chase ChaCha around mercilessly. Seems Ricki doesn't like ChaCha getting too close to his partner, Raisin! :shock: To date Ricki is the only cockatiel that has ventured over to ChaCha's cage via the bridge that I put up between the cages, but then again Ricki is afraid of nothing!

Well, now what's happening is that as soon as ChaCha hears that I'm awake in the morning he will begin screaming 1 loud scream after another, until he gets to see his cockatiel buddies. Then about 10 minutes after I leave the room he will just begin screaming while hanging on the side of the cage lookinf towards the cockatiels. Initially I waited it out until he quieted down then once he was quiet for a bit (usually about 10 or 15 minutes) I would go tell him what a good birdie he is then let him go visit. Now his goal is, as soon as he hears any people moving about he wants someone to come let him go visit the neighbours!

This waiting technique was about 50% effective. The other 50% of the time he would just scream until I was forced to go back into the room and cover his cage back up so he couldn't see the cockatiels or us! Then once he is quiet for a while I will let him out but not go over & visit.

I know that ChaCha gets it, because as long as he gets his way, just like the spoiled brat he is :oops: he is good as gold. As a matter of fact, when he's with the cockatiels he eats with them, follows them around, talks to them, whistles to them and sings to them. He's happy as a clam in a mud bed. I know that I cannot house the cockatiels and ChaCha together in the same cage. What do I do now?!

Just one little aside fact. Currently I'm not working so I have plenty of time to spend with ChaCha because I'm home all day. I'd like to fix this problem before I manage to get a new job.

I'm just about at my wits end! Seems that ChaCha is always one step ahead of me?!

Totally helpless,
tzigane
sooty
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Post by sooty »

Just a silly question, but he definately wants the cockatiels and not their cage?

what would happen if the tiels were out on a play stand away from their cage? Where would cha cha want to go to the tiels or their cage?

Is there any way of looking at it to modify his behaviour through the tiels?

Figured it was worth a thought
Cathy
tzigane
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Good idea, sooty...

Post by tzigane »

Sooty,

That's a great suggestion. I don't know why that never occurred to me. I'm going to try a few experiments to determine whether ChaCha is after the cage or the tiels. It's such a simple concept that it never even occurred to me. That's one thing that I love about this site! :D
Keep y'all posted on what happens!
Have a great day!
tzigane
sooty
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Post by sooty »

What's been happening????

Can you give us an update
Cathy
tzigane
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Experiment results are in!

Post by tzigane »

Cathy,
I seriously thought about what you said so here's what I did:

I took a playgym and put it on a table. Then I took all of the cockatiels out of their cage. I provided 2 branch-bridges: 1 went to the playgym and the other went to the cockatiel cage. Then I let ChaCha out of his cage.

He made a bee-line for the playgym. He stayed there with the cockatiels for a very long time, about an hour. Then ChaCha decided to go check out the tiel cage. He went in there, looked around, played for a few minutes then went back to the playgym where the other birds were. After that he only went halfway down the branch that lead to the tiel cage.

Amazingly, later on, both of my grey cockatiels decided to check out ChaCha's cage! They went across the branch and sat in the doorway of ChaCha's cage for a while. Of course, ChaCha went over to see what they were doing. All 3 of them were climbing around, the tiels exploring and ChaCha following them around whistling and talking! The only time he got upset was when 1st 1 grey then the other decided to go INTO his cage to check it out. ChaCha didn't attempt to hurt them just followed them around VERY closely keeping and eye on all they were doing.

Therefore, I think I've solved the dilemma of what the attraction is: the cockatiels! ChaCha spent only about 5 minutes total in the tiel cage. After that he spent the rest of his time with the 2 grey cockatiels. Actually, they seemed to enjoy having the "neutral" space to meet before they decided where they all wanted to be. After ChaCha and his 2 buddies migrated to his cage I gave them some treats and they all spent a good portion of the day snacking, napping and hanging out together.

A side note: since this day, ChaCha has been quieter but still has his tantrums when he's not let out to see his cockatiel buddies. I'm going to try other patterns of playgym and branches between to see which the birds like best.

Thanks, again, Cathy. I've been so centred on what's causing ChaCha's screaming and looking for the obscure reason that I never even tried any of the more obvious reasons.

Toodles, I'll keep you posted of any changes! :D
Have a great day!
tzigane
sooty
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Post by sooty »

Wow!!! That sounds amazingly cute.

Hope that everything continues on in a positive way
Cathy
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Somewhere where u can asking questions

Post by Guest »

Hi Tzigane,

I recently got an email from Birdtricks re an interview with a bird behaviour expert. The topics to be covered are Screaming problem and Feather Plucking problem. I thought it may be relevant to you. You can go to this website and state your question. The URL is http://www.AskChetWomach.com. I understand they will send you the interview script after the interview is completed in a week or so.

Regards
Doremon
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Post by ringneck »

Yeah, how are things going? :wink:

Happy Holidays to you and Cha Cha!

Imran C. :wink:
tzigane
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Post holiday update...

Post by tzigane »

I.C.,
In answer to your question, I don't know where to start. At first things were going better, as I previously described. Now things are just as bad or worse than they were to begin with. The only time ChaCha is not screaming is when he totally gets his way when he wants it or he's covered up -- and it isn't fair to have him in the dark all the time. As soon as he hears that someone is up in the morning he starts, sometimes even before. It starts as a single loud contact call one after another with 1 minute intervals; but if you acknowledge it, forget it, the screaming starts. So, here is what I've decided to do. To try to alleviate the problem I have decided to separate ChaCha from the other birds unless it's playtime. This way he is either with my husband or myself, with the other birds or he's in his room of the house.

It really breaks my heart because it seems so extreme but I thought that if I eliminate all of the other distractions perhaps I can initiate a change in his behaviour. Perhaps ChaCha will simply like having his own room/space? The room ChaCha is now in, is our study. This is the second most used room in our house. And when I'm in the other parts of the house I can (and will) make special trips to go visit and talk with ChaCha if he's not out visiting or playing so he doesn't feel isolated or neglected. So, when ChaCha is having a tantrum I can close the door (strictly reinforcing the leaving the room technique) and put the radio on to distract him or leave the screen saver on the PC on (he seems fasinated by it?!) What do you think, does this have a chance to work?

A similar technique worked for my cockatiel, Scooter, who tried screaming incessantly while a juvie. I ended up putting his cage in a spare bedroom and only seeing him when it was time to feed, clean the cage or spend time with him. Eventually, after about a week, he got the idea that he is loved, part of the family but not the centre of the universe. Maybe it will work for ChaCha, I hope.

My husband tells me that if this doesn't work, ChaCha's got to go because we've been trying to work on this problem for far too long (years in fact). In most ways I agree but I get real attached to my companion critters, of which ChaCha is no exception, and hate to have to find him a new home with a total stranger. But those are the straights we're in. Keep your fingers crossed for me & ChaCha! Wish us all the luck you can muster!

With hope in my heart:
tzigane
sooty
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Post by sooty »

have you tried approaching him in the way that parents do with a screaming infant?

maybe some control crying techniques will work.....
Also , I don't know if this is right, but does he need to be taught how to entertain himself?......I don't know exactly the best way to do this, but I thought that these are symptoms that infants and young children go through this and we manage to sort these problems out....maybe some of the techniques can be adapted to suit your birdie situation????

best of luck
Cathy
tzigane
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Last post on this topic with ChaCha

Post by tzigane »

I no longer have ChaCha - he's gone to a new home. See my post under "Miscellanous Comments/Questions". He now live with a friend of ours. Not because we no longer love him but because the two of them, ChaCha and our friend, seemed to bond instantly. Do you think that possible, for a person and a bird to bond instantly? I'm already missing him immensely and he only left this afternoon.

Thanks everyone for the excellent info/comments/suggestions y'all provided me to try and help ChaCha with his screaming tantrums. Also, we've told our friend if things don't work out between them ChaCha is always welcome back in our home.
tzigane
sooty
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Post by sooty »

I'm really sorry that you had to make one of the hardes't decisions possible when it comes to our parrots.

The fact that you made it at all after so much effort shows that you really have the best interests of everyone involved both human and bird.

Thinking of you all
Cathy
tzigane
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Thanks, Cathy

Post by tzigane »

Thanks, that's sweet of you to say. I must admit just making the decision tore at my heart. Hearing your opinion on this has made me feel better about my decision.
tzigane
Datsun and Family
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Post by Datsun and Family »

You definatley did the right thing! I cant imagine that Chacha enjoyed screaming all of the time and maybe in a new environment he will be a different bird.

There is no reason why you cant go see him, and with your friend at least you always know he is safe.

I wish you and Chacha all the best and hope you all have an easy time adjusting to this new and hopefully quieter living arrangement.

-Chamon
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Post by ringneck »

Hello tzigane

You did the right thing. I’ll admit that it was a shock for me to hear this news, but you did the responsible thing. Trust me, I can understand how loud a Ringneck can get. Sometimes my female Ringneck lets out this really annoying call that it sends shivers down my spine!

Look on the good side. At least you gave him to a friend and you’ll be able to visit. I hope to still hear from you and I hope you post chacha’s progress with your friend.

Thanks for the update! :wink:

Best wishes, :wink:

I.C.
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