My wife doesn't believe Fang is bluffing....

[lostjerry]

hello, as most of you know we just recently got Fang. he is 4 months old and i believe he is going through his bluffing stage. but my wife doesnt think so.
so let me explain his behavior and see what you all think...
to start when we first got him he was as gentle as can be. would climb on our fingers, let us rub him, get kisses, etc.
on the second day everything seemed to change. he is now protective of is cage and sometimes, not always, will lunge at us if we try to come near him while he's on a perch. he still climbs onto our fingers most of the time but with me he likes to bite a lot, or if you try to pet him or rub him in any way he will bite. he bites at my wife to but not as much. she can get kisses from him every now and then.
then he is always flying away from his cage and into the kitchen onto the window seal and if we take him back to his cage he goes back to the kitchen.
his mood is off and on like he's bi-polar or something.
we have noticed that he is obsessed with this certain treat that we give him, he will practically go crazy and lunge for the treat. we have try teaching him to fly to us from across the room when we have a treat in our hand.
but without the treat he is very moody and everything i stated above applys.

so what do you think? i think that hes going through the bluffing stage but my wife disagrees.....

HELP!

[Elizabeth]

okay, firstly, being cage territorial is normal for all birds of all temperaments. He will lunge and bite if you put hands near his cage and this is because hits his house and "not yours". Its not something you can change but having your bird out of the cage as long as possible with you or on a stand when you can supervise will help. You will have to move him from the cage to clean it. Does he have a T stand or playstand?

About his behaviour, it seems normal! What do you feed him every day? His diet may want improving. Seeds and pellets, fruit and veg, whole grains and bits and pieces are okay. There is a list on the site what to feed and what not.

He is fully-winged. You could get his feathers clipped (about 2.5 cm will do) until he is trained enough.

Also he must learn the 'Step Up' as requiring something from your bird reminds him that you are boss, especially since he can fly! Step up is asking your bird to step onto your hand. You can use an arm for this, lots of IRN's hate fingers and will bite them.

Also when its warm enough to (heater on in Winter) give him a spray with warm water about twice weekly to condition his skin and feathers.

[lostjerry]

ok... i guess i lose....

and to answer some of the questions.
his dieat consist of pellets fruit, fruit flavored diet food, and these eotrition bites things for treats. also you said to clip his wings. well they already are clipped pretty short but he can still fly around the whole house.
hes pretty good with the step up command.
but when we have him away from the cage he still bites alot, i ignore it as mush as possible but it hurts! and you cant pet him or anything, but that first day we had him, he was like our little baby....

[Donna]

I think a lot of people are putting a lot of misunderstanding in the bluffing stage. This is just a baby and just taken from siblings and a familiar environment. There's a honeymoon period (an adjustment time) a bird goes through when taken from one environment to another. When you brought him home you could handle him but now he's biting and lunging. He is scared and the only thing he has to cling to is his cage for security reasons. Give him more time to adjust and don't be letting him near your face at all. A scared bird is more unpredictable and until you learn his body language they can not be trusted. I really don't think this is the bluffing stage he's way to young to be that smart yet.


Donna

[Lauren]

Welcome to the up and down world of IRNs. They are all little angels the first few days. But as they get used to you they will start 'testing' you to see where their boundries are, which is bluffing basically and turn into little monsters. If Fang is lunging and biting away from 'his' stuff, cages, playgym etc, he could be bluffing.

Only thing you can do to minimise this behaviour is to let them bite you or calmly put them on the floor or in the cage for time out. But don't react. Thats what they want. When they get that your not backing away they will learn that biting is not getting them anywhere with you.

When young and 'testing' you, you can minimise the behaviour and teach them. Its all in the way you handle them at this age. Be persistent and be patient. Getting through this takes a little time.

If Fang is just lunging and biting in or around the cage/playgyms then he could just be territorial. Which is normal, but they still need constant reminding that you are boss, so ignore it. Same applies.

Territorial or Bluffing.. Do remember birds bite. Sometimes intentionally, sometimes not intentionally or just for the plain fun of getting a reaction of of you. Its how birds communicate sometimes. Sometimes they are just saying, 'Ive had enough now' or 'Don't do that'.

Goodluck.

[Lauren]

I agree Donna. But I do think even young ones are very smart and they learn very quickly. Its very hard to tell when an IRN is going through 'bluffing' without being there to witness it. But same advice goes for all. Be persistent, be patient and don't react.

[Donna]

They have to be smart in order to survive. Their brains are hard wired and we are predators to them right now. This is an instinctive behavior and not to confuse it with bluffing. It's a flight or bite world to them right now, that's what nature tells them to do. Even a well socialized hand fed baby will have these instincts when taken from their siblings and home.


Donna

[Elizabeth]

ok... i guess i lose....

and to answer some of the questions.
his dieat consist of pellets fruit, fruit flavored diet food, and these eotrition bites things for treats. also you said to clip his wings. well they already are clipped pretty short but he can still fly around the whole house.
hes pretty good with the step up command.
but when we have him away from the cage he still bites alot, i ignore it as mush as possible but it hurts! and you cant pet him or anything, but that first day we had him, he was like our little baby....

Well i would definitely get his wings clipped more because if he can fly around the house then they must'nt be clipped enough. Clipped wings done correctly let the bird glide down onto the floor so they don't damage their breast bone from a fall. They shouldn't be able to actually fly very far!


My IRN does bite my hands, but if I persist he doesn't and will step up. I don't think this is a bad thing. I read to do the following and i do it too:

Put your hand and fingers showing near your bird when he is on a perch out of his cage. Let him lunge and bite you. If he bites, grab his mandibles with you finger and thumb. If he doesn't let go push your hand towards him and he should let go. close your hand and have your index finger out. Place the finger near the beak and touch the top of the upper mandible and stroke it with your index finger. If he lunges keep trying. Move slowely and steady. Don'y be scared. Physical pain is less dramatic when you act slowly. Touch his wings and head with your finger and then all fingers. Get him used to being touched slowly.

In the wild a squabbling pair of birds will show who is boss by matching his beak to the other birds beak. With your index finger this is what you are doing. By touching his upper m,andible with the tip of your index finger it is showing him you don't back down. Parrots will do this and not hurt one another.

[Donna]

Well i would definitely get his wings clipped more because if he can fly around the house then they must'nt be clipped enough. Clipped wings done correctly let the bird glide down onto the floor so they don't damage their breast bone from a fall. They shouldn't be able to actually fly very far!

I know where this baby come from and and the breeder happens to be a board member with lots of experience. I'm sure he gave that baby a juvenile clip so it will learn how to land properly when it gets older. Please don't take any more off the wings right now. Too much clipping at such a young age could create problems down the road.

Donna

[Petey]

Oh boy, all this talk about *bluffing* *clipping*. Who invented the word *bluffing* in conjunction with birds? Why is it only used with ringnecks? Do they do something so special and so different than other species of parrots?? I don't think so.

Baby birds are just that..baby birds. They need lots of time to build up strong breast muscles and flight coordination. It really doesn't matter what kind or species of bird is being discussed. Many people here feel that a baby bird should be kept under control by clipping it's wings. A person says 'clip' if the bird is flying around the house. Why not close off an area where the bird won't be able to fly around the house???? That will allow the bird to get strong naturally. Someone suggests a type of clip that allows for gliding downward but not vertically. Fine, but that same bird must be first coordinated and strong and muscular physically. Very young birds haven't reached that point yet.
It seems like people are just waiting around for the bird to start acting a bit more confident which includes assertiveness, nipping and immediately, the term * bluffing* is used to address that bird's attitude. It almost sounds like there's a whole different set of rules that apply to Ringnecks as opposed to other species of parrots. You know, they're only called parakeets because of the length of their tails. They're as much a parrot as any other species of parrot and are doing the exact same things that all species of parrots do when they gain confidence and become more assured of themselves. In the world of parrots all of those actions and reactions to people and surroundings that a parrot does is simply body language. Nothing more, nothing less. Just like any other parrot, they're very leery of things, especially when they're young. People expect them to learn to behave much quicker than other species of parrots. Why? I have no idea. Are they so different and special?
If anyone here has been bitten on the face by their bird, blame yourself. The bird shouldn't have been near that area in the first place.

""""""""he is now protective of is cage and sometimes, not always, will lunge at us if we try to come near him while he's on a perch. """"""
All parrots are like that. Don't stick your hand in the cage. The bird will bite as well as any other species will bite. Many parrots stay cage protective throughout their whole lives no matter what you do and that's natural.


""""""then he is always flying away from his cage and into the kitchen onto the window seal and if we take him back to his cage he goes back to the kitchen.""""""""

So, who's fault is it that the bird is able to get into the kitchen. Just think about this...a big pot of boiling water or hot frying pan is on the stove. The bird flies into the kitchen, gets confused and flies into the pot or pan. And then..SPLAT..., end of the bird and an obvious loss of appetite for the family.

""""""""his mood is off and on like he's bi-polar or something. """""""

Hey , don't give the bird that much credit...birds aren't bi-polar and their moods change just as ours do but we're not bi-polar, right? Sometimes, they wanna be alone; sometimes with people. When a parrot doesn't wanna be with people and those people decide differently at that same time and the bird gets an attitude, gets nippy, well, who's fault is that? Should the person persist or just leave the bird alone?

I agree with Donna concerning the predator/prey classification. Every day in the wild, predatory birds eat all species of parrots ..in the morning, afternoon and dinner time including all types of ringnecks.

All species of parrots/parakeets in a home are wild animals and will always remain wild animals even if they live in your house for a hundred years. Very few parrots are found after escaping their homes. Nature takes over and the parrot is gone.

I agree with Elizabeth----invest in or make some sort of portable stand that can be easily moved around. Do your flying training from stand to arm, not cage to arm. Put a cover over the cage when training. Let the bird focus on what's going on and not all the alternatives that exist. Separate a training area and a cage area. Have no distractions around.

[Donna]

Thanks for clearing that up Petey The B-word is used a lot around here and we're not focusing on other behavior problems birds have.




Donna

[Elizabeth]

Well i would definitely get his wings clipped more because if he can fly around the house then they must'nt be clipped enough. Clipped wings done correctly let the bird glide down onto the floor so they don't damage their breast bone from a fall. They shouldn't be able to actually fly very far!

I know where this baby come from and and the breeder happens to be a board member with lots of experience. I'm sure he gave that baby a juvenile clip so it will learn how to land properly when it gets older. Please don't take any more off the wings right now. Too much clipping at such a young age could create problems down the road.

Donna

There are several ways to wingclip, however with a long-winged bird or Parakeet its advisable to cut more than 2.5cm off because these birds will fly. The point of a wingclip is to prevent the bird from flying around the house and allowing it a safe landing if there ever was a fall.

It would be a good idea to take him to the breeder or vet to make sure it is actually cut to prevent flying.

Im not for wingclipping or against it. My boy is wing clipped but we play flight games where he has to fly to me when i'm standing a bit away. He can't fly, he can only fly about 8 cm to me or he falls to the ground.

You don't have to wing clip your bird, during training its just easier.

[Elizabeth]

Petey,

Like said my 9 month old IRN is clipped however that's how i bought him and like said i play flight games to work out his breast and wing muscles. So that when he is able to fly he is as healthy as can be.

I also feel for very young birds who are clipped as they never learn to fly. It should only be done when the new owner gets the bird, after a few months of age when he has worked his muscles a bit.

[Jay]

Hi lostjerry,

Like Donna said, this baby bird got an early juvenile trim because he was such a strong and good flyer (could maneuver mid-air inside a 2'x3'x4' cage) that I felt it was necessary to minimize the chances of escape on his journey from Los Angeles to Jacksonville.

He was a sweet boy with me, so I'm surprised he was only sweet on the first day with you. Perhaps he was indeed missing his breeder or his remaining siblings?

Be patient and give him time to settle in. The other board members gave excellent suggestions.

PS. he loves raw corn on the cob, diced apples, broccolli, and dandelion leaves in that particular order.

[ringneck]

i agree..got some stuff in the works to clarify what bluffing means

I am writing a huge article on ringneck biting and the best ways to approach each situation (biting).


I.C