Dexter

clawnz · Post by **clawnz** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:00 pm

I have not been on the board for awhile.
I took in Dexter and Mango.
After making a very silly stupid bad and sad mistake I let Mango fly away from me.
He was on my shoulder instead of Dexter. Andhe had become flighted, unlike Dexter.
I will not go into detail, But I did make a good effort to find him. But no luck.

Dexter came to me with feather problems as some may recall.
He has now been with me 17months and we still have a few feather issues.
Life has certainly had it's moments as you will see in the pictures below.
He molts once a year in January / February. So he has had two molts since I took him in.
This time it does look like he has grown in strong tail feathers.
But he still has a spot on his left wing where there maybe some permanent damage, as he does trouble growing in good feathers there.
This molt he got to a point where he could fly (poorly) over a short distance. Before trouble hit again, and he broke a Primary. I balanced him up by clipping two on the right wing. This was almost the end to his flying. As Dexter goes everywhere with me I was dealing with his flight thing, when it came to a head and he broke the last primary on his left wing. Again I stepped in to add balance and clipped his right wing. So we are back to square one and no primaries for another year.
In the time I have had him I have had to deal with three broken blood feathers that were real bad bleeders as well as the stress bars on his feathers when I got him.
The last broken blood feather was by far the worst I have had to deal with. And 20mins and a lot of blood later I got it stopped.
His condition has come a long way., so I am hoping next year will see some decent feathers grow in on his left wing.

This is the last one and could be damaged by preening not bad growth

Here is my boy now

SkyeBerry · Post by **SkyeBerry** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:15 am

Hello welcome back! So so sorry for your loss. I have been here a short time. I have an IRN. I am glad you posted the pictures. I am lucky that I have not had to deal with a bleeding blood feather. I do keep clotting powder on hand. The site of blood does not bother me but I think your pictures provide me with a better idea of what could happen.

clawnz · Post by **clawnz** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:28 pm

I hope you never have to deal with any as bad as the last one Dexter had.
I have been around a few with birds before and I like to think I am geared up to deal with them.
Damaged is fairly easy to deal with.
I had Snowy (Cockatiel) who had damaged all his primaries and tail feathers. And he went in twice to have some of them pulled out. As he kept knocking the damaged ones and they would start to bleed
Outer primaries I would normally get the vet to deal with, and I was not far off going to the emergency vet to have the flight pulled under anesthetic. The chances are they would of put him under then got me to pull the flights as it is more likely I know what to do better than them. We do have a good relationship and they know I have the experience.
I have never seen the like before. There was a 20mm length of tissue/tube that was exposed like a mini sausage, out of the end of the broken blood feather, with blood flowing out of it. At one point I thought I had it stopped and put him up on my shoulder. It was not long before I felt his blood running down my neck. At that point I was trying to calm myself down and get back to work cleaning him up and holding loads of styptic powder on the blood flow.
It was such a relief when I did get the flow stopped.
My boy was very quiet the next day, so I am guessing the blood lose took it's toll on him.

A shot of the basin to give you an idea of some of the mess. This was after the second attempt, I had cleaned up after my first go, thinking it was over.

clawnz · Post by **clawnz** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:29 pm

First can I make this very clear. It is more to do with Dexter being clipped, and other things that went on in his previous home, why is having trouble not because I take him out.
If he had a full set of flights there may not of been this problem every time new ones grow in.
The flights have had weak spots in them so that when he shakes (like they do) he breaks the odd one. Twice I have been close by and hear him scream in pain. No He was not trying to fly. Just shake and break. Some of the early ones were fully developed and all I had to do was clip them out. They certainly did not hurt him like the blood ones.
Dexter was already crippled when I took him in. And he is just about classed as a special needs bird due to being taken from the nest, hand fed and hand tamed.
Then he bonded with his owner so strongly that when things went horribly wrong he suffered stress bars from drop in blood pressure and stress, while growing in new flights. Hence the stress bars.
I have worked very hard with him, but in doing so he has bonded strongly to me and does go everywhere with me or he gets stressed if I am away from him for long periods.
I cannot do much for his screwed up mental state he came with, except go with what keeps him happy right now.
In years to come, if or when I can get his self confidence to a point where he feels he can be a normal bird I will wean him off of his needy ways.
That is one of the reasons I do socialize him with so many new experiences. They do his confidence a world of good.
Dexter does not know he is a bird and does not want to hang with my other birds. His preferred spot is on my shoulder. Or if I am not around he will settle for the truck seat or the car seat.

Right now he has had his feed for the evening and has started moaning for me. he is good as long as he gets a bit of shoulder time every few hours.
Now he is shouting as I did not respond to his first call. Ho! back to moaning. He is my darling
Do I pamper to his needs. Yes! Yes! Yes!

Added very next day:
Dexter was on my shoulder, I had just had dinner. Dexter does his shake and flaps, exercising his wings. And another feather in the same spot brakes. So tomorrow I will be clipping out another damaged flight, secondary flight that is this time and it was a full feather, not a blood feather.
I will get a good look at the wing then. And at the same time try to get a decent photo of the feathers in this area that are not looking good.

SkyeBerry · Post by **SkyeBerry** » Sat Apr 12, 2014 2:05 am

What a horrible situation for you and Dexter. I have not searched for your earlier posts and the full story. I hope you do not mind me asking - prior to your ownership, did he receive a very bad wing clip that ultimately damaged the feather follicles or is the reason for this problem unknown?

clawnz · Post by **clawnz** » Sat Apr 12, 2014 2:48 am

SkyeBerry wrote:What a horrible situation for you and Dexter. I have not searched for your earlier posts and the full story. I hope you do not mind me asking - prior to your ownership, did he receive a very bad wing clip that ultimately damaged the feather follicles or is the reason for this problem unknown?

No I do not mind. I feel it is always good to get other opinions.

Dexter as far as I know was always clipped. I took him in at the age of 5.5yrs old. The owner took him from the nest and hand fed him, and I assumed clipped him at some point. hopefully after he was fully Fledged, and kept him clipped.
I am starting to think it could be long term damage. May not be direct damage from clipping, but could well be related. I would not of thought continuous clipping should of caused this sort of thing. But as you say could it be bad clipping! I am sure these cases do exist.
I am more inclined to think, due to being clipped and unprotected flights getting continuously damaged or an accident that has caused long term damage.
There is also a chance that as they have been uncomfortable at times that he has chewed that second to last one. I say that as there were no stress bars on it just the weird pattern. And some of the stubs look like he chewed them.
If they were not outer primaries I would be tempted to pull the odd one now and then to force new ones to come in. The problem I see is that not enough good feathers grow in at any one time meaning they are not protected. There are a number of poor grown under developed feathers in this area, which is not helping.
And all is not lost I feel while they are trying to grow. It's been a long road with his feathers and his condition. I wish I could tell you about his mental state, I do feel he has also come a long way there as well.
I am still working on a way to get a decent picture so I can sit and study the area better. But not easy as he tends to fight me a bit when I am working on him. And he does not like to relax his wing to let me pull it right out. And I do not want to push him too much.
I am very lucky he loves me, so never uses his beak on me. In time we will have that trust. As you know nothing is over night with our Fids. And he has come a huge distance in that last 17mths.
Every step is very small, but positive.

SkyeBerry · Post by **SkyeBerry** » Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:09 am

Other than the lovebirds, my two are my first parrots. My lovebirds were all fully flighted and it had never occurred to me to clip them. I was quite surprised to discover this is so frequently done. When I started to research the bigger birds, that is when I read about wing clipping. After reading the pros and cons, it seemed any negative was far outweighed by the benefits. I must admit, I also own my own home and I have no children; therefore, it is easy for me to make modifications if I think they are required. I also know if any windows/doors are open and if the birds are in/out of their cages etc.

Regarding bad clips - yes, some birds seem to get really butchered. I have seen quite a few pictures on the internet and some videos on youtube. It seems some people clip the feathers very short and that little stub seems to really irritate the bird. I am not sure if the follicle just becomes inflamed because of the clip and/or because the bird chews at it. But I have seen some nasty images. It really is too bad that you do not have a good avian vet to assist you. I am not sure how it is decided or done but I do know that the follicle is sometimes removed.

Out of my own curiosity, I am going to do more research in this area. Is there anything in particular you would like me to supply a link for if I come across it?

clawnz · Post by **clawnz** » Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:22 am

Feel free to send me any thing you find.
That would be super.

I think the word is Barbering. When they chew the ends of clipped feathers.

Got a pic of his latest damaged feather.

clawnz · Post by **clawnz** » Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:41 pm

Yah! I got the photos I was after of that wing and the damaged flight.

It does look like at least one stress bar.
And a lot of damage to the shaft. Quill.
As you can see there are some odd feathers in the area where the damaged one is.

SkyeBerry · Post by **SkyeBerry** » Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:00 am

Unfortunately, I have done no research yet. It has been nice so I have had to force myself outside to mow the grass and weed etc. But I try and take a few minutes to check the forum at the end of the day. From what I read above, I did not realize that Dexter also barbers his feathers. I thought the damage was from feathers not growing in properly as well as being damaged during poor landings etc. This does add to the problem doesn't it? Does he only chew the damaged wing feathers? Do you think the chewing is at an area that bothers him vs general chewing from anxiety that is not necessarily in an area that has existing feather/follicle issues? Hope this understandable?

clawnz · Post by **clawnz** » Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:37 am

No I have never seen him chew any feathers.
It was just one cut or damaged shaft I see that I thought he had a go at. So lets say it was irritating him, and had a go at it.
What I do not understand is if they are stress bars. Why is this still going on. Is he still having nightmares? I do know he and his owner had a very bad time of it. The period I do not know how long thar went on.

clawnz · Post by **clawnz** » Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:39 pm

Thank you molossus

It does give me something to research.
And I will find out details from my vet to get a full blood works done on him.

Dexter has come a very long way from when I got him, and I am sure those tail feathers are the best yet.
I would lean towards some damage in this area and ongoing irritation or follicle damage.
I have only ever seen one full blown PBFD case and I see that develop from just one bad feather to 4mts later when the bird had keratin deformity and most feathers gone. Before the bird was put to sleep.
I would like to think it is not viral (as it is so localised) and only due to some damage. Like irritation (chewing) and maybe follicle damage. Fingers crossed that is.

SkyeBerry · Post by **SkyeBerry** » Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:16 pm

Hi clawnz, that is wonderful that molossus is keeping an eye on your posts. I know for certain he is much more knowledgeable than I. Good luck with the viral testing being clean!

SkyeBerry · Post by **SkyeBerry** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:05 am

Clawnz - I do not think you will mind me saying your bird and your willingness to share and the forums willingness to help is one of the reasons I come here. To actually learn something useful versus a lot of glossed over information in a parrot book that provides only the very basics. I am finding this very interesting and should read your previous posts and look at the 'before' pictures so that I can more fully understand the situation and how far the bird has progressed.

Molossus - if you don't mind, and escuse me clawnz, you replied to a post of mine and used the term 'feather scarring' - I used several methods to determine exactly what this meant but could not find an answer. Would you mind explaining here if it ok with clawnz, or PM me, please? I did ask the question at the end of the thread, but I do not believe anyone has answered it.

Mary

SkyeBerry · Post by **SkyeBerry** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:36 am

Thanks Molossus. I am familiar with stress bars via images, research, and other peoples bird's viewed at the vet. I do not know if you remember my post, but I can confidently state my birds have never had stress bars. I will be going to the vet in the next couple days to get meds for a finch. I will ask vet re: her comment & blue IRNs and post it under my original thread.

Any books in particular you would recommend? I will not be breeding birds so no genetics please. I do look at the genetics sections. Learned about the feathers fluorescing and the wonderful array of colours, but I must admit (while cringing) I mostly look at the pretty pictures.

SkyeBerry · Post by **SkyeBerry** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:50 am

Clawnz - I have just spent quite a bit of time reviewing some of your videos on youtube. You have a lot of birds! How many do you consider yours versus the Rescue's? You sure seem to have a way with making friend's with them. I would have never guessed the sun conure had a dislike for men??? Your little lorikeet - the one you were tossing

, the video with the Mother can reminded me of a green cheek conure I worked with for about a year. It brought back some nice memories. Have you seen the young man known as the Parrot Wizard? He has a video where he 'throws' his trained senegal. He calls the trick 'Boomerang," for the obvious return flight the bird makes in the video.

I now feel a little silly offering you any advice, you obviously know so much more than I. I am also going to look up how you made that bird bath with the running water. I have thought about making something like that, but was not sure how to make it bird safe. I have not looked at that video yet, but can you tell me - did you cover the cord with pvc pipe/some other cord protector, or is the bath removed and/or the birds removed from the room when you or someone else is not there to supervise?

Mary

MissK · Post by **MissK** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:10 am

Mary, everybody has their own area of interest where they may have spent more time learning, and everybody needs a fresh set of eyes, ears, and brain cells to help when considering a problem. When you offer help to Clawnz, and the rest of us, you're part of a beautiful collaboration of humans to help the birds. You have a lot to offer.

clawnz · Post by **clawnz** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:28 pm

MissK wrote:Mary, everybody has their own area of interest where they may have spent more time learning, and everybody needs a fresh set of eyes, ears, and brain cells to help when considering a problem. When you offer help to Clawnz, and the rest of us, you're part of a beautiful collaboration of humans to help the birds. You have a lot to offer.

Thank you MissK. So very well said. It is what makes a good forum.

Mary: Thank you for so many kind words. I had a very steep learning curve into birds And what you see of me only goes back maybe 8yrs.
Never be shy to offer help. You ask how many are or were my birds and which were from the rescue.
The SC2 and the Bird Tossing Rainbow same as Mother Can vid were from the rescue.
Pandis SC2 had not stepped up for anyone in the last 12yrs, he just used to bite most people. In fact I see him bite at least four people in just 14days at one point. And he at 29 had learnt to not give any warnings before striking. And to be fair He did nail me once between the eyes top of nose, which ended with me having two black eyes. I know it was only jealousy, but did not at the time about this. And have only seen this behavior three times.
My own flock at the moment is 7 Tiels, 1 Budgie, 1 Alex. Only Dexter is non flighted. The others live cage free 24/7 and have the run of the conservatory lounge dinning room and kitchen.
All sorts of hazards and no issues?

Mary: Thank you for viewing some of my pics and vids. I do hope you enjoyed them? I love my birds and enjoy posting about them.

Knowledge! Well! I have a small amount of that and some bird experience.
I am just one of those lucky people who manage to be able to connect to most of them very quickly.
Each of them have different likes and dislikes. If you can Pick up on that you are half way there.

Example: I have Alfred in boarding. She (yes female) did come in a few weeks back just for a weekend. And this time is in for a week.
Owner says Alfred tends to bite males. Came in Tuesday. Last night (Thursday) I had put Alfred back in her cage, but did not close the cage door. I am out in the kitchen getting my dinner ready, when who should turn up on the floor? Alfred had come looking for me and climbed up my leg to sit on my shoulder. She is clipped so must of jumped from the cage to the floor to get to me.
I have owners stunned by what I manage to do with their birds and in such short times.
But I am not a trainer by any means.

The Bird Pool.
Yes the pump is a 240v one and you do need to protect the wire to it from beaks. What I did was fold a plastic sheet up to cover it.
The shower fitting was not so good and I did not run that this summer, as it sprays water every where. And is far more complicated to set up.
The basic pool is simple and relatively simple to set up.
The bonus I feel is that the water does not need changing all the time. And I do see the Tiels drink out of it sometimes.
I did post details on a few forums, but if you cannot find one let me know and I will help.

clawnz · Post by **clawnz** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:46 pm

@ Molossus.

Thank you for your help and thoughts.

I have found the Aussy site for MDS and have emailed them to see if I can take blood sample and put on card as per what I normally do for DNA Solutions when doing DNA blood testing.
This is a simple way as I can then post by mail. If I have to send blood in vial I have to declare it to customs and Bio Security and that leads to much higher cost and loads of complications. Been there. Do not want to go through that again if I can help it. Had all the samples destroyed by Aussy as the paper work was not correct. A Holes. So had to do them all over again.
Funny when you think about it! That was just feathers that time, and all that trouble by courier. Yet I can post dried blood or feather samples in the mail no hassle.

I do hear what you are saying about taking Dexter out, and do understand your thinking. To the point i would also tell others the same thing. I also do try to remember to tell people to not copy me. What works for me may not work for others.
Dexter is not your normal parrot.
In his time here I have pampered to his needy soul, and spent a lot of time now, socialising him. Working on the theory that all this is good for his self confidence. Weaning him off this later maybe hard. But if this is what he wants ( and I do give him the choice) I will run with it for now.
An example: We have been out in the car this morning. when I came home he did not want to get out of the car, so he is still sitting out there. The car the truck or a shoulder is where he wants to be. He will stay in the truck when I am at work and as long as he gets a few mins shoulder time every now and then is content to stay there. I always make sure he has food and water wherever he is.
Here are a few links to some vids of him.

Dexter on the beach.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y60TcEuEAc

This is a group of short vids joined together. The road trip was around 600kms and we were out for 13hours I think.
http://s815.photobucket.com/user/clawin ... 7.mp4.html

Dexter letting Henry take a bite from a Chilli he was holding
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV9A0Kmzjgk

And loads of photos
http://s815.photobucket.com/user/clawin ... t=3&page=1

And the latest one I have of him with his tail feathers fully grown in. And he is eating a Chilli. Good boy, he does like them. and i try to make sure all my guys get the odd one now and then.

SkyeBerry · Post by **SkyeBerry** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:53 am

Ok you guys I get it. After I posted that remark, I do believe - although I have not read above - I asked questions and offered up bits of information that I had read. That is more my style anyway. Supply what I hope is relevant info, perhaps provide an example of something that did/did not work for me, and then let people decide for themselves. Do not worry I was not going to suddenly become silent. That is just not in my nature.

Can't learn without putting yourself out there once in a while.

Yes clawnz I did enjoy your vids and will likely go back and watch some more. So the Alex you describe as yours, would that be Mango? Dexter? or another bird?

Oh - something you mentioned in a vid - the sun conure that bit you when you asked it to step up - You made a point of saying "yes, I did or do react." So you believe it is a good thing to let them know when they bite it hurts, but to not over react, but continue with what you were working on? I ask because it was something I asked about in a post. Although I had read Not to React, I found my IRN just kept biting harder. Why not? It did not hurt anyone. So I started saying 'ouch' or making a hurt bird noise. Several people stated they responded in a similar way also.

Thank-you for offering to help with the bath if required. I did not look for the link, but if I remember correctly in your comments under the vid you stated you provided a link. I will look there first.

Hope Dexter and the others are doing well. Mary

clawnz · Post by **clawnz** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:00 am

Quote:
So the Alex you describe as yours, would that be Mango? Dexter? or another bird?

Dexter.

Quote:
Oh - something you mentioned in a vid - the sun conure that bit you when you asked it to step up - You made a point of saying "yes, I did or do react." So you believe it is a good thing to let them know when they bite it hurts, but to not over react, but continue with what you were working on? I ask because it was something I asked about in a post. Although I had read Not to React, I found my IRN just kept biting harder. Why not? It did not hurt anyone. So I started saying 'ouch' or making a hurt bird noise. Several people stated they responded in a similar way also.

Yes I do believe it is ok to say no and react. It is the way you respond to them. Like ok I did respond to the bite or nip as it was. But did not stop what I was working on.
My thinking is that in a flock situation, if a bird does something another bird does not like it responds.
The trick is to not make your response a reward. As long as it does not get you to go away it is not a reward.

Bird Pool
Pictures here
http://s815.photobucket.com/user/clawin ... t=3&page=1

Sorry I hope I am not going to get in trouble! This is on another forum as I cannot see a thread here on this forum. But this thread covers some of the developments that went on.
http://www.theparrotboard.net/Forums/sh ... =bird+pool

The only thing I can find here is Mango trying out the pool.
http://www.indianringneck.com/forum/vie ... +bird+pool

SkyeBerry · Post by **SkyeBerry** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:04 am

To agree with someone else who viewed your handiwork: That is totally awesome! The project and you putting all that here for me and everyone else. I did not notice the overhead sprayers in the videos I watched. Are they still there? Did you remove them for some reason?

clawnz · Post by **clawnz** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:40 am

Quote: I did not notice the overhead sprayers in the videos I watched. Are they still there? Did you remove them for some reason?

The shower was too messy, as I could not keep the spray with-in the pool area. I wanted a fine mist and there was a bit of drift going on. And I could not find away to stop this without closing in the bath area. And that would put the birds off, of going in there. So I took it off. It was fairly complicated compared with the basic pool.
And as no body was interested when it did run. I had that on another timer and running on a 12v pump, coming on every hour.
To be quite honest the pool does not get much use that I see. I know they drink the water here now and then instead of the water on the cage. Why I do not know! The water on the cage is fresh and bottled spring water, so should be better in theory.
Next summer I may get keen again and try other nozzles (jets) and see if I can get better control. Getting the pressure was another issue I had to deal with, but worked that by putting a release pipe in that let some flow back into the tank.
Dexter cannot get to it very easy, being non flighted. He dips his feet in the water bowl on the cages. And I mean all he does is dip his feet. When I see him do this I will take him show him the pool! No! So off we go to the shower where I either mist him or put him under the shower set on a fine mist.
Henry loves to be misted, but as I cannot handle him it means soaking the place to give him a good misting.
Most the other guys are gone as soon as I appear with the misting bottle. Funny how some birds do not like water and others love it.
The wild baby thrush I raised from a very young baby loved and took to it like a duck to water.
Ricky loved it right from the day I turned the first model on.

SkyeBerry · Post by **SkyeBerry** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:13 am

Quote: I know they drink the water here now and then instead of the water on the cage. Why I do not know! The water on the cage is fresh and bottled spring water, so should be better in theory.

Several thoughts - is the circulating water colder? Why dogs drink from toilet bowls. Yuck.
- the sound of the running water attracts them?? Running water being fresh, stagnant water dirty & potentially lethal. Instinct has been triggered??
If my birds do not seem interested in their bath water, I make ripple noises with my fingers in the water, and generally they come and bathe.
- I guess this does not really fit but a lecturing vet I listened to stated that when offered multiple water sources animals tend to drink more.

Quote: Funny how some birds do not like water and others love it.
I was going to put this in my reply but you beat me to it. I do not have any toe dippers, but I have birds that jump right in and splash as much as they can to birds that dip their heads and try and spray their backs and wings. I have birds that completely open their wings for a good soak from the bottle, some who like a bit of misting, as well as those who hide.

MissK · Post by **MissK** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:52 am

My Budgies - 1/5 wants a bath.

SkyeBerry · Post by **SkyeBerry** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:01 am

That surprises me! My budgie was the one who taught the lovebirds to just jump in and enjoy.

clawnz · Post by **clawnz** » Fri May 09, 2014 12:10 am

molossus wrote:Clawnz hi.. did you get feedback on the tests?

No! Have not sorted yet. There has been emails back and forth, and I still do not have a final price.
The Aussy lab has no way to pay online, but have given me an account No to pay into.
They want me to buy 10 test kits! Which I do not want or need, as they have an expiry date and I only want one. Well correct that I feel I do not need any.
I am more than capable of collecting a blood sample and as they only want a dry blood sample it is easy to get this to them.
It is enough to put me off dealing with them, or should I say I am less than excited about moving forward. They have agreed that I can send blood sample on a card, not in a vial. This should mean no problem with customs thank god. So we are making progress.

I personally do not think there is anything wrong with him health wise and that is not helping me spend $130nz Maybe a bit more. With a company that took more than four days to get back to me after emailing twice and phoning them twice.
If it was a viral thing I feel it would not be in just the one spot. And Dexter would not be in such good health and spirit.
His feather condition has come a very long way in the 17mths I have been looking after him. His tail feathers are by far better than any he has had before and are good and strong. This in its self would indicate he is in good condition.
He is actually opening up more the longer he is with me.
His weight is stable.
Sorry I am not panicking, as I still feel it is damage from maybe hitting his wing sometime in the past.
I am still interested in doing the tests and will proceed at some point, but in my own time now.

He has broken another feather in the same area. I was there when the Tiels did one of their little excited flights and Dexter flapped and that was when this last one twisted out of place.
Note that no one feather has broken at the base. It is always damage up the shaft where they break. And they are not always pin feathers. This one just had the one weak spot in it and not the damage the one above had.
I could take him in and see what my vet has to say, and we can consider where to pull a few of the damaged ones out. Then watch how the new ones grow in. Instead of waiting till his next moult next January.

clawnz · Post by **clawnz** » Tue May 20, 2014 7:56 pm

The test kit has arrived from Aussy and I will take blood sample to be sent off by Friday.
I have discussed that I want all the tests they can do on the dried blood sample. Except the DNA test.
So poor Dexter is going to get the needle, maybe tonight.

clawnz · Post by **clawnz** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:49 pm

Ye Har! The results have arrived.
Only one positive has come back. He is a male!
All other tests are negative.

Willgoss,
Clive
MDS333885
Alexandrine
Parakeet
Dexter
MDS DBS
collection kit
Avian DNA sexing (Panel) Male
Psittacine beak and feather virus(Panel) Not detected
Avian polyoma virus (Panel) Not detected
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This maybe interesting! When you mention Tail as well. I think we still go with poor diet back sometime with his old owner.
I do not know if you know about Dexter and the tail feather issue.
The thread only starts from his flight feather problems.
But I am sure I did post on this forum about stress bars and how the tail feathers had them. Hence this is the first time (17mths) since I have had him that he has grown in good strong tail feathers. So yes I guess it could be deficiencies, and I am slowly winning.
I do understand somethings take a huge amount of time to come right. Just I am not one of those patient types. But if we did look at this way I would say he may yet come right.
Here are a few facts that I do know.
Dexter has had a high number of stress bars on his feathers from the time I got him.
His brother a year younger did not have any trouble that I see.
But the ladies Sun Conure I had in boarding over Christmas had an issue with his tail feathers being very easy to fall out. He came in with just a few and went home without any, I felt so guilty about that as she did tell me this was likely and to be very careful.
It did ring alarm bells at the time. And I did have a thought about it. Shoved it out of my mind as Mango did not seem to have the same problem as these two.

clawnz · Post by **clawnz** » Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:37 am

I got hold of him today as he broke another feather on the left wing and wanted to cut it off and get a better feel of how soft or harsh his feathers are.
I am sad to say he does have a few bad spots in a few of his tail feathers as well as his wing. I forgot to look at his right wing. As I do not like to freak him too much. He is very tolerant me messing with him well and never show me his beak.
At least the long tail feathers are the best yet and I could not see any weak points in them, just a few of the others have some damage, but these are ones he may not of moulted out in his last moult (January February 2014).
Anyway the good news is I am sure he feels a lot softer than he used to.
Now back to working on his condition. And I wish I could figure out how to get him more used to hands.

clawnz · Post by **clawnz** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:16 am

I like this!
As some of you know I take him everywhere.
Well I have had some very positive comments about how great he is looking.
And they all comment on his colours are so much brighter. And that is from a couple who only get to see him now and then.
I love that.
Now I will post the link here but also add it in photos and vids thread.
This is my laid back bird on the move.
I had been using a new dash cam and turned it on him. we are stopped at traffic lights and not long after I pull away he is into getting his head down. Funny as he could not get balanced on one foot.
Then a bit further on you can see him lean into a couple of corners. Te speed bumps disturbed his resting.
I love my mate, he has come on so well and is opening up in public, so I am guessing it will not be that long before he speaks in public, as he is getting more chatty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPXyDQL80_4

clawnz · Post by **clawnz** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:02 am

last round of clipping!
I have seen a few damaged tail feathers as i said above, and in a wind they hang out of place.
So today it was Dexters sort me out Dad Day.
On the scales at 227g, I am happy with that. Gave him a good handling and yes he does feel so much softer to touch.
Now Dexter be good while I play with your tail. Not an easy thing to hold a bird and use one hand to find the feather shafts I need to cut out. But my boy is super good, even if he did some complaining. He never offers his beak in protest, and that always blows me away.
With the feathers you can see the issues he has. Note they will be older ones and next year should see good ones come in. His two super long tail feathers are doing great. Which would suggest they are softer and more pliable than any have been before, since I have had him.

Close ups

clawnz · Post by **clawnz** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:18 am

Dekky is feeling great.
I gave him a good misting today. And later in the day I got hold of him to have a cuddle and feel how he feels to the touch.
This is just not the same bird as I took in 19months ago.
He felt so soft and silky. Stunning change. And people just keep on telling me how good he looks.
I am so hopeful that all the efforts put in to help him are coming to fruition.
There was a slight set back with his two long tail feathers. They had led 5months and looked close to great.
There as something going on and he jumped down on the floor in front of me as I stepped forward and I step right on his tail and the pulled out. I was shattered.
But he already has one new one growing out, so it will not be too long before they are back.

MissK · Post by **MissK** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:20 pm

Accidents will happen.

SkyeBerry · Post by **SkyeBerry** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:54 pm

I have not been on the forum very much until recently. Glad you finally received the testing results and they are clear. So sorry about the tail feathers. How are the new ones coming?

clawnz · Post by **clawnz** » Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:36 pm

I m very sad.
Dexters two new tail feathers have the same trouble as ever. Stress bars!
That is so very sad. I had hoped this time all would be good.
I am at a loss as to what is wrong.

MissK · Post by **MissK** » Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:17 pm

Sorry Clawnz.

clawnz · Post by **clawnz** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:33 pm

update!
it is with a sad heart i have to admit Dexter still has feather problems, including breaking poor growing primary feathers.
We have just had another screaming event, where he had broken a blood feather and I failed to find it when I checked him out due the the screaming, I guessed he was in pain and thought he had pulled a leg muscle as he got caught up in a cover on the car seat, and was flapping like mad trying to get free. I was at the point of going to get some pain killer for him. And on the way out the door the damaged feather broke off.He calmed down well after that. Not sure how I missed this in at least three inspections.
Here is the sad photo of his tail.

MissK · Post by **MissK** » Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:54 pm

Clawnz,

I'm sorry you're still facing this, and I can well imagine how you feel. Certainly I don't want to tell you how to go about it, but I know sometimes it helps to start back at the beginning. Would you want to explain to me, in medium to general terms, what are the known causes of stress bars and feather weakness? What are the contributing factors? It could be that in reviewing these for me that 1) I learn more about feathers and 2) you might have a flash of insight over something you forgot or overlooked. I'm not coming by here often, but I do always look in on this thread when something new comes along.

SkyeBerry · Post by **SkyeBerry** » Sat Dec 27, 2014 9:21 pm

Clawnz - I am so sorry. My IRN has been pulling feathers for about a year. So although a different situation, I feel your pain. Overall, he curently has more feathers than he did a year ago, but once in a while three or four bigger feathers are just about to 'unfurrow' and the *cough* stupid *cough* bird pulls them when preening. It is heartbreaking...so I have been reading everything I can about the old and the new theories of why birds pluck. I am also reading up as quickly as possible as to how feathers grow, what is involved, vitamins, etc, etc....if I find anything at all, no matter how small, I promise to pass it on to you.

clawnz · Post by **clawnz** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:19 pm

Happy New Year to all here.
I thank you for the help and advice over the last while, I have had.

Dexter! It is molting time. And this time he started early. About mid to late December. Before it has been January to February.
I am watching closely, he becomes an ugly duckling when he goes into a molt. And we have a invite to show him Poppy (Sun Conure) and Percy (Eclectus) at the opening of the new Animates pet shop in Three Kings on Thursday. I had so hoped he would be looking a picture, but not going to happen.
But some super good news, even if a little early to say for sure. But the signs are very positive.
I got to cuddle with him. (sure he was stand offish) but boy does he feel nice and soft.
The new feathers coming in look great so far. Flights on both wings are growing in and look to me to be well formed and no stress bars that I can see.
Two years of playing around with his diet looks to be paying off.

AJPeter · Post by **AJPeter** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:28 pm

Thank you Clawnz for the up date. Glad this year is looking better for you and Dexter.

SkyeBerry · Post by **SkyeBerry** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:53 am

So happy for you and Dexter!

clawnz · Post by **clawnz** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:19 am

He is coming to the end of his super long molt.
There had been some developments that may take a bit of explaining.
He grew in good Primaries. Equal numbers on each wing, enough for him to get some flight.
This caused some disruption to our normal life.
As you will know from my posts Dexter is a shoulder buddy and goes everywhere with me. This has not been a problem while he had feather problems.
But with flight, I was not willing to let him be on my shoulder outside and that meant I would get hold of him to move him around.
This ended up with him sitting up high in a corner of the aviary and not wanting to interact with me or any of the other Fids for that matter.
I was beside myself as I did not want to clip and thought he would be happier flighted.
How wrong was I?
I am 100% certain that he is back to his old self and in fact more confident that he can tell me 'No' when he does not want to comply. And he calls for me when he wants to come out.
The stress and mind mess I was in trying to let him stay flighted and seeing him become a recluse was shattering. I wanted a flighted happy Dexter, not this.
So I decided to clip him which was a shame as I have worked so hard to get those good looking feathers to come in like that. It took just a few days, and he was back to his 'can I come dad' self.
Sad as it is, as I know he was screwed up by his owner and being out and about with me is his life.
My little man is a feathered human.
He now has the confidence to beak me if he does not want to come out. Three times in one day, got me worried. I feel he was having a bad hair day. The next day he did beak me when I was putting the food out and got to close. I respect this and give him space. I thought it would be best to leave him at home. (I never push him). So 30mins later and I start the truck and who should call for me! Dexter, he wanted to come to work.
My buddy is learning that he can tell me off and he is training me.
The other good news is that he is pumping two new long tail feathers up. So far they also look great.
I try very hard to read his body language and go with what he wants, not mine.

SkyeBerry · Post by **SkyeBerry** » Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:19 am

Wow...but I totally understand what you are saying. Would you ever try and train him to a harness? That way he could have his flight feathers to use in the house but still go with you. Hopefully with a properly done clip he won't be bothered by the shortened feathers.

clawnz · Post by **clawnz** » Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:58 am

SkyeBerry wrote:Wow...but I totally understand what you are saying. Would you ever try and train him to a harness? That way he could have his flight feathers to use in the house but still go with you. Hopefully with a properly done clip he won't be bothered by the shortened feathers.

If only!
I have a harness, but there is no way this guy is going to let anybody handle him. He will step up for me, ride my shoulder anywhere, but hands are a big 'No! No!'
And I feel that is why we were drifting apart. He did not like the fact of me handling him. To him this was a negative.
Two years and I have got nowhere with handling him.
He is his own bird, and I have to go along with what he wants or excepts.
Sometimes we have to except that a bird will not like being handled, and Dexter is more than likely one of those.

I feel I am very lucky that this spell does not seem to have done too much damage to our relationship. If that had happened I would never forgive myself.
Dexter has come a huge distance in the time he has been with me and I am pleased with the progress.
And one day he may just have the confidence to allow me to handle him in a relaxed manner.

Forgot to add he was kept clipped all his life. Eight years. Not even sure he was allowed to fully fledge, but would like to think he was.

clawnz · Post by **clawnz** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:48 am

My boy just gets better all the time.
He is much more active when out with me, And he has talked a couple of times now in public.
He has grown some very nice feathers. He did knock two out last night which other than a kink where they got damaged, were perfect shaft and feathers. Whatever they are called. Sorry I forget.
We have just done a live display at a local pet shop. Animates.
I took Dexter, Percy (eclectus), and Poppy (Sun Conure) along for a few hours each day over the weekend. They had a young hand tame clipped Rainbow in for sale as well.
Working with all four was fun, and my guys were so well behaved. I watched carefully to see when it was time to call a halt and take them home. 3.5hrs Sat and 4hrs Sunday.
I am told it was well liked. I have a vid up on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlFNSBbBYmw

And here are a couple of photos.
I took this pic on the way there.

SkyeBerry · Post by **SkyeBerry** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:44 pm

What gorgeous birds, Clawnz! I understand what you said about Dexter and not liking to be handled. Skye is all over me, comes when called, talks, is starting to learn a couple tricks, but only after a lot of work will he let me touch his beak and toes for more than a couple of seconds and the top of his head for less than that. Ultimately, I would like to be able to clip his toenails if needed and for him to accept toweling in case he gets injured and needs some first aid etc prior to getting him to the vet. But I agree, petting/scratching a bird that does not want to be touched is not worth losing the trust that has been built! I recently took the Skye and Sunny (sun conure) across the road to meet my friend and neighbour's kids. I was not sure what to expect. Sky jumped to the front of the cage and talked up a storm to the delight of the kids. What a ham! And in front of three rather loud kids talking at the same time trying to get Skye to say different words. I was a very proud Momma!

clawnz · Post by **clawnz** » Wed May 27, 2015 9:27 pm

Dexter has beautiful tail feathers this year. certainly the best yet.
They look just about perfect and this would be the longest time that he has kept them.
No stress bars and good clean shafts, with no weak points.
He did knock out a shorter tail feather and I took a photo of that to post. It is also perfect.
So it does look like we have made huge gains. It took a long long time. How many times was I thinking this would never come right!! And here we are. Dexter looking a picture of health. I get so many compliments when we are out around town.
I am fairly confident it could of been a virus that went through Laura's aviary, and maybe a poor diet. Not the stress Laura was going through and Dexter reacting to that.
I have had a good amount of help from the guys here mainly.
What I like about what we have achieved has been done without meds. The only capsules he got was Biotin for B vitamins. The rest was protein from bee pollen. And many other good natural foods.
Nothing was ever given for any length of time.

MissK · Post by **MissK** » Thu May 28, 2015 4:58 am

Lucky fellow, that Dexter. Congratulations.

And congratulations, Mary, on your little ham.