Choosing a New Cage

Donovan · Post by **Donovan** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:15 pm

In the somewhat near future (8 weeks maybe pending certain variables) I will be getting my second bird.

I would like to go cage shopping soon.

Now the local pet store doesn't have a great selection for cages. My current IRN has a cage that's big enough but admittedly a tad too small for him. That local pet store has a variety of budgie/finch cages, but nothing for larger birds, with one exception, the same exact cage i already have for my current bird.

Since I'm always feeling like the current cage is a bit too small i'm doubting whether I should purchase another one. The upside to it is that it's easy to transport. I have a large walk-in cage outside and when the weather is good I will take my bird out there.

If I get a larger cage for the new bird I may find it more difficult to transport it outside. If I get the duplicate cage I will find it easy to move around but I'll always feel like the cage is a bit too small.

Not sure what to do.

MissK · Post by **MissK** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:14 pm

Hi Donovan,

Can you provide a link to the cage you are using now, the one you feel is on the small side? As you know, I'm always shilling for the HQ Double Flight I use, but in truth I think the single one they make might be sufficient for a Ringneck. Not for, you know, *MY* Ringneck, but maybe for somebody else's....

Donovan · Post by **Donovan** » Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:10 am

http://petsmart.com/mt/www.petsmart.com ... lInUS%2FNo

Again, the cage is too small, but it can be carried easily out to the big cage.

MissK · Post by **MissK** » Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:43 am

Donovan, the link only brought up PetSmarts's main site. I've run into that internet problem before. It's annoying. What are the inside dimensions of your cage?

Also, if you can transfer the birds from cage to cage, a little travel cage might do well for getting them out to the aviary.

AJPeter · Post by **AJPeter** » Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:21 pm

Have you tried Amazon?

tasha87 · Post by **tasha87** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:19 am

Yes! Try amazon they have very nice cages for a great price....im getting ready to order all my birds new cages and play stands

Donovan · Post by **Donovan** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:32 pm

I am a bit leery of buying a bird cage online. I really want to see the cage.. hold it.. examine it. Yes that's a little weird i suppose.

I am about to buy a cage tomorrow and I have decided the cage will be small enough to carry but large enough for an Indian Ringneck to live in at least 12-15 hours a day.

The biggest problem with my current cage is that it's narrow. Yes it's nice and tall, but it's narrow. Put in a couple of toys and perches and the ability to move around becomes complicated.

So the cage I find tomorrow will be fatter. I don't care so much about how tall it is. Ultimately the bird will spend enough time out of the cage that having a good tall cage won't really matter. I even found a nice expensive cage that I realize i don't want because it is tall and skinny. I'm looking more at short and fat. When I get the cage tomorrow I'll post up the specs.

MissK · Post by **MissK** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:02 pm

I believe in general that it's more important that a cage be wide than tall. Don't forget to accommodate the tail. Don't go under 22 inches, PLEEEEEZE.

I am on board with wanting to touch the cage before buying. I get it. A lot of it has to do with wire gauge.

I'm still going to advocate getting a decent sized cage (or two) and using the one you have now or a smaller one as a transport cage to get to the aviary. C'mon, humor the MissK!

You could get a pair of these: http://www.petco.com/product/114149/Pet ... OgodeVIAZQ

At that price, two is doable. They come with a stand on wheels. Certainly not as big as I would prefer, but I think possibly big enough, for a bird who comes out at lot. Rocky has this cage for when he's coming with me in different rooms of the house and I don't want to lock the dogs up. Ranechild's bird Fats Waller stayed in it for a few days, and he had no complaints. The "landing platform" at the upper front is a really great feature. The door is simple and easy to use. Food cups swing out of their own doors, so handy. The wire is very thick. I like this cage. That said, the footprint is 22" x 22" and the interior height at the apex is 36".

Of course, I'd really like to sell you on a pair of these: http://www.petco.com/product/112008/Pre ... age-112008 but I can't vouch for the wire since I haven't seen them in person. My cage wire is 3mm, if you can Google a comparison to AMERICAN wire gauge. You should not go any thinner than 3mm.

InTheAir · Post by **InTheAir** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:13 am

I second the flight cage suggestion. I think that is similar to sapphires cage, though I find it a bit small, it is adequate. A double flight with no devided would be better.

The first cage missk posted is the same as Nilas cage at work, it's ok for a couple hours, but really too small for an every day cage. . There just isn't the room for all his foraging toys and bath tub as well.

MissK · Post by **MissK** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:31 am

It is true I put Rocky in that first cage for four consecutive days while I broke down his normal cage for cleaning and redecorating. He was not amused, and after a day or two he started complaining. I think I complained about that, myself, on a different thread.

He quieted down once he got back home.

I think a bird used to smaller would be happy there. It's true quarters are tight, and I would never condone a cage any smaller. It does sound like Donovan's bird (and bird to be) will come out a lot, and if they are visiting an aviary outside most days, I could bless the dome top cage.

But yeah. I would like to see everybody using the HQ Double Flight. Is that so wrong????

Face it, InTheAir, not everybody is going to install a cage that is measured in meters or yards. Moment of silence.

Donovan · Post by **Donovan** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:31 pm

Well, it's done. I spent all day and a tank of gas visiting pet shops across 3 cities. It is amazing how few bird cages are out there.. real cages... apparently pet shops think "bird" means finch and budgie. Every cage everywhere was tiny.

I found a couple of medium size cages that were close but i couldn't bring myself to buy. Anyway towards the end of the day I finally found one in the place I was avoiding (heavy commercial traffic area).

They had several medium and large cages still in the box. I decided on a 30x30x43 cage.... then I changed my mind when I remembered that the opening to the walk-in cage outside is only 24" .. so I went with a 22x22x34.... that's considerably smaller than my first pick but it's easier to handle physically.

It was suggested to get a travel cage to transfer the bird(s) outside to the walk-in cage, but here is the scenario. I move the bird(s) outside before work. I don't have time to convince them to get into a travel cage to go outside. I'd rather pick up the cage and carry it outside... turn them loose, and be done with it. Though, I should still get a travel cage for vet visits. I've never taken Mr. Bell to the vet. (no lectures

) Eventually I Will take him and I'll be better off carrying him in a small cage obviously.

So .. what about a small pet carrier?.. do people use those for birds? Ya know, the thing you carry your cat in. And if so, would a little perch need to be rigged up or would a bird be well enough to sit on a couple of towels inside??

Anyway, here's the cage, I'm sure someone was going to ask

... it's nothing special... the top doesn't even open. I'm sure i'll figure out a method for opening it up for the bird to come in and out as he pleases. http://www.petco.com/product/114149/Pet ... rdFC_Cages ... I just realized this is the exact cage Miss K suggested as a bare minimum haha. ... neat.... I would have gone larger but again i need to be able to carry it in and out of the walk-in cage... so..

I really wish I were rich so that I could dedicate a large section of my rich house to being an indoor aviary. Unless you have an aviary that's about 1 acre in size you'll always feel like your bird's space is too small.

MissK · Post by **MissK** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:02 pm

Soooooooooooooo, how does it stack up to the cage Mr. Bell is in? And does Bell get a new one too?

If you open up that door with the latch at the top center front, you will most likely find a groovy drop-down platform. That's your spot for the bird to come and go as he pleases, as well as hang out, get treats from you, etc. Don't put any breakable dishes up there, though. I learned that the hard way.

Pet carrier - I paid about $40 for a nice travel size cage, sight unseen, online. I feel this was perhaps a mistake. http://www.mysafebirdstore.com/CARRIERS ... er_18.html My complaints are many, but it all boils down to the way I feel this cage is just too cheap to be $40. Plus shipping? My word! First, the parts were wedged under the grate for shipping and there was no way to get them out (that I could find) without bending parts of the cage and the pan was already warped from this treatment. I'm not happy with the cheesy latch. I don't like whatever that stuff is that's coating the wires. It's not very graceful about accommodating the long tail. Of course the perch is the wrong size. I don't even like the food cups, and there's nothing wrong with them. Maybe I'm just too picky. We generally use an 18" cube cage that originally entered my life 20 years ago with some finches in it. That cage has got around, I can tell you!

Moral of my story? Just use whatever works. Go down to Goodwill before you shop anywhere else. Critical points in the travel cage are: has a place to attach perch and food cups, secure latching, will maintain hull integrity in face of an assault from a dog (or whatever), doorway will accommodate your pet, carry handle. If it doesn't have a pan (which is just one more thing to slide out and make trouble) you can use a towel. Towels do get dirty quick, though. You will have two, so try for something you can carry both at once or stack to carry. I have a little dolly with bungee cords for my stack of cages, but you may not need to go so far.

InTheAir · Post by **InTheAir** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:45 am

Missk, parrot keeping culture is evolving. 20 years ago it was the norm to keep a cockatoo in a cage that I'd consider small for a ringneck, and tame and train them by chopping off its wing (deliberately not plural) and give it one toy. Today a lot of people find this unacceptable. I think we can make cages that are measured in metres the norm one day! Nilas is a little cramped... But he doesn't spend much awake time in it. ..

Donovan, if you ever want tips for travel cage training my bf or I are here. Dave takes both birds to work a couple days a week and still arrives on time! It takes about 10 seconds per bird, including latching the cages. It was also dead easy to train them. We use budgie/cockateil cages as they are easy to carry and the birds like to see out the windows in the car.

MissK · Post by **MissK** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:40 am

I agree that things are progressing, and we are rightly shocked to see old fashioned practices when they surface from time to time. I do hope one day people are all willing to keep their birds in very large cages. I just don't have that much faith in humanity. It's part of what leads me to feel we have no right to keep them at all. What a cheery thought for first thing in the morning!!!

A happier thought- I'm watching Rocky chewing the braided jute perch he's standing on. He's gonna get a *surprise* any second now.....

AJPeter · Post by **AJPeter** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:41 pm

i bought a small cat travelling plastic box for £10 and have used it twice to take Bille to the vets. Small cages can be quite expensive, Northen Parrots sell a travelling cage with perch for £229! More than l paid for Billie's cage. Towels are quite acceptable to protect your bird sliding about and can be put in the wash after use.
Your post time MissK was 2.40 pm is that early in the morning for you?

MissK · Post by **MissK** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:53 pm

AJ, my post directly above yours lists (for me) as 10:40 am. So morning, but not early morning even by my standards.

InTheAir · Post by **InTheAir** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:27 pm

MissK wrote:AJ, my post directly above yours lists (for me) as 10:40 am. So morning, but not early morning even by my standards.

Sorry if I am stating the obvious:
It says 1:40 am my time. This is because it is set to the time of the place you say you live in when you signed up. ...

Back on topic:
The thing to watch for in carriers is that the bird cannot get its head stuck in the bars.

AJPeter · Post by **AJPeter** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:50 pm

How strange the top right corner of your post says Posted Mar 2 2014 6.27 am, and for MissK 5.52 am very confusing but back to the topic.

I have been warned that the plastic cat box has a door that a bird could easily get its head caught in the grid but when my Billie was in it l was talking to her all the time.

Have you bought the new cage hime yet Donovan? In the catalogue the photo shows a top landing platform, Mr Bell will be very jealous, either you will have to give him the new cage or buy one with a landing paltform just for himself.

MissK · Post by **MissK** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:55 pm

Hi AJ,

This forum has a nifty feature. I think it helps us understand each other better.

We make a post and the time of our posting is displayed as you have noted.
Each of us sees that time displayed in our own equivalent local time.
In this way, for my post that says:

I agree that things are progressing, and we are rightly shocked to see old fashioned practices

each of us will read what time it was for ourselves when I made that post.

Thus, the same post is listed for you as 2:40, for InTheAir as 1:40, and for me as 10:40, since we are all in different time zones.

I like this feature because I can easily figure out how long it's been since the post I am reading was made. I don't have to consult a map and do any math to figure out how many minutes or hours ago somebody said something.
Neat, huh?

Donovan · Post by **Donovan** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:16 pm

.
.
Alright, here's Mr. Bell's cage

The measurements on this cage are something like 30"H .. 22-24"W .. and 19"L .. .. that 19"L is the problem. It's tall enough, and wide enough, but still a bit narrow. The top opens at least. This is the cage he was in at the pet shop that I bought him from and I decided to buy the cage too, which actually seemed to surprise the shop owner. I didn't want him handled or freaked out too much so I wanted him to stay in the environment he was already accustomed to as much as possible.

And here is the cage for the new bird (whose name may be Neko.

It's 22.8" L X 22.8" W X 34" H with no open top...

Yes I have purchased this cage already. It's in a box. I'm dying to open it and put it together but I won't because I don't want Mr. Bell going to it and thinking it belongs to him.

So each cage has its merits. The first has an open top... the second is a little bigger. I have no doubt that it will still seem too small, but at the end of the day 22x22 is the max since the door to the walk-in cage outside is 24" wide.

And thanks for the head-caught-in-the-grid concept for pet carriers. I didn't think of that. I'm sure it's happened to some poor bird before...

oh.. and on a side note.. my bird feeder outside.. the local birds (rens, cardinals, sparrows).. one of them has figured out how to open the top of the feeder, and one of the little rens or sparrows (not sure what the bird is) has been going inside of the feeder and just hanging out. I thought that was neat.

here he is. Neat little bird. I like him. He doesn't fly away when I go near the feeder. He hangs out at the feeder all day every day. haha he's probably lost his survival skills because of my bird feeder. He gets out of the way but only a little. He's either brave because he knows he's faster than me, ... he's used to seeing me... or it's just in their nature to push the envelope a little more than the other birds do.

(this is not the actual bird, but seems to be the species)

MissK · Post by **MissK** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:52 pm

Awww, get Bell an identical new cage too!!

He deserves it! If my urging won't do it, I bet a week into using the easier front door and fed doors will convince you!

That landing platform will be fine instead of an opening top, and you'll be able to hang stuff inside without it then making trouble to open the top you won't have to open. If that makes sense. You'll probably be wanting one more stainless coop cup for fresh foods.

I fed the outside birds today, too. I usually don't, since they are willing to share with the outside MICE, but I had some time and it was a snow day. I ended up putting the plate of birdseed inside an old wire dog crate. This excluded everything bigger than a cardinal, so the songbirds were able to eat in peace without being chased off by starlings, grackles, and crows. Not to worry, I made those guys a plate of their own way far away.

AJPeter · Post by **AJPeter** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:19 pm

I am afraid I still do not understand the time zone, but not to worry, "Let's call the whole thing off!"

Donovan, if you were a bird and sat on a perch in that cage it would not matter if the depth was was only 19" because it is wide enough to flap your wings. A top opening cage has advantages Billie cannot wait until her top is open, she flies to the top perch very easily and loves climbing up and down inside and outside her cage but best of all she loves to sit on top of the cage lording it over everyone. The cage l have the top opens out, blast! I cannot up load an attachment maybe the next shot

The bad news is that when she sits on the top she sometimes poops straight into her feed bowl unless l am quick and move her along.

AJPeter · Post by **AJPeter** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:23 pm

Is that it?

AJPeter · Post by **AJPeter** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:31 pm

Donovan when you come to assemble the new cage leave the bolts very slack just a turn or two of the nut, in that way the last bolts will slide into the remaining holes easily. Then when it is altogether then you can tighten all the nuts.

What was the cost of new cage? Billie's cage cost £139

Quite likely when Neko is settled she and Mr Bell will be in and out of each others cage and might even swop over.

InTheAir · Post by **InTheAir** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:05 pm

"Donovan, if you were a bird and sat on a perch in that cage it would not matter if the depth was was only 19" because it is wide enough to flap your wings."

Seriously? if you were a bird that Sat on a perch all day, your owner should take you to a vet. Parrots are meant to bounce around, play and explore.

AJPeter · Post by **AJPeter** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:15 pm

Did I say "All day?"

Is this bash AJ week?

InTheAir · Post by **InTheAir** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:43 pm

AJPeter wrote:Did I say "All day?"

Is this bash AJ week?

This forum is a very useful resource for many new owners. Lots of people read without posting. If information is grossly inaccurate, it is best corrected to ensure that companion parrot keeping continues to improve its standards of care. I'd hate to see it regress!

I don't think it is wise to justify an undersized cage. Donovans bird is in a different sitution and is lucky enough to have a lovely aviary to zoom around in all day during the warmer months, most birds don't.
Most pet birds are confined to small cages most of the week while their owners make a living. A lot of them don't even get time out of their cages! I will not contribute to encouraging these conditions.

AJPeter · Post by **AJPeter** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:54 pm

Fair enough!

Wht did you think of the cage l got for Billie, Claire?

Donovan · Post by **Donovan** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:17 pm

y'all have succeeded in confusing me haha..

what's this about cage depth and the like?...

mr bell spends a lot of time out of his cage and neko likely will also.. ... neko is a 'he' btw...

Donovan · Post by **Donovan** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:26 pm

InTheAir wrote: Donovans bird is in a different sitution and is lucky enough to have a lovely aviary to zoom around in all day during the warmer months, most birds don't.
Most pet birds are confined to small cages most of the week while their owners make a living.

Okay.. Yes Mr. Bell has a large walk-in cage outside, but it's funny how pitiful he acts when I make him go there. In the last couple of weeks it's been warm enough to put him outside twice. (on the weekend) .. He acted so sad.. he moped and pouted for 2 hours haha..

anyway, aside from that. I don't always put him in his little cage. Sometimes I leave him out while I'm at work but if i can (or feel like it) I'll put him in his cage.

I have come to realize that whether he is in his cage or out, or in the walk-in cage outside he pretty much just sleeps all day. He's set to my routine and seems to come to life around 7-10pm

On the weekends he wants to play in the morning. I guess he wants to play every morning but I'm busy getting ready for work. .. yada yada...

The point here is that Mr. Bell isn't always in his cage during the day.

pards007 · Post by **pards007** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:10 am

I became sssooo dizzy after reading all the posts about cages. Size looks like somewhere around Length 25-30 x 22-25 Width x 35 height for one bird is the smallest anyone will go (of course the caveat is "as big as you can go" goes in there). Bar spacing seems pretty squishy but I would feel safe with 3/4 inch more then anything. So does this sound like a good rule of thumb? Going to be buying a cage in a couple of months (my IR is only 19 days...oooo wait it's after midnight yay 20 days!!!.

MissK · Post by **MissK** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:50 am

Hi pards,

I would agree that is about the smallest a person should ever use for their Ringneck, provided the bird gets a lot of time out of the cage. It really isn't big enough for a bird that's jailed most of the time and only coming out for an hour or so a day.

Sorry your head is spinning, and congratulations on your birdie! Yay! Please look at a lot of cages so you can get an idea of what's out there. Also it would be smart to compare prices because different sellers put different prices on the same cage. I'm in USA, so I can give some opinions on cages available here. I always try to get people to buy the cage I use, although in my own opinion it would be better to use a bigger cage. Still, I am working with the "biggest cage you can manage" concept. I use the biggest one I, personally, could manage (read: Pay For) times two. One day I hope to go bigger. This is the cage I use: http://www.birdscomfort.com/doubleflight_bird_cage.html I like this seller as well, but they ship from Florida and the charge goes up depending on the further you are located from Florida. The bar spacing and thickness are fine for a Ringneck, but would not go any thinner on the wire. Thicker is better, of course, especially if you have a really dedicated bar chewer. For Alexandrine, for example, this bar would not be thick enough for a bird who liked to chew on it.

I keep meaning to put up a really simple post on cage sizes "one of these days" but I haven't got it up yet! If you care, you can see this cage in action in my photo thread, as well as a lot of other photos nobody is interested in.

http://www.indianringneck.com/forum/vie ... =5&t=18437

pards007 · Post by **pards007** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:56 am

I read your post on that cage and it became part of my long list of cage comparison. As you stated the chewing through issue may become a problem, Storm is 20 days today and the normal trying to get anything in his mouth phase is in effect so I have no idea if he/she will be chewing. Tough for me to believe they can do that but going through tons posts I can see it's true, I find that amazing! My breeder friend talked about the corners of a cage. She had a few IR's almost get through the corner of a slightly less quality cage (she said this was about 20 years ago when she was starting out). She also brought up any and all of the clasps issue in that IRs will figure out a way to open them, heck I watched the parakeets do it in their cage.

There is always someone home in the house so other then sleeping Storm will probably be outside the cage, we do the same thing with our two parakeets, they are trained.

Anywho, thanks so much for your post and you and your cage (more so your cage)

was on my list taken from your older post.

AJPeter · Post by **AJPeter** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:14 pm

Last night l was thinking of Mr Bell's cage depth of 19inches and realized that as soon as you put a perch in that only leaves 9 inches on either side and is not enough even for just night use maybe okay as a carrier.

I would suggest Donovan that you use the new cage for Mr Bell and his old one for the new girl because she will still be a baby and save up like mad for another cage like the new one for when Neko is older.

I seem to remember that you bought the cage that Mr Bell was in at the pet shop and they should have warned you he would need a bigger cage as an adult/

Donovan · Post by **Donovan** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:06 pm

Mr Bell was 6 months old when I got him and so fully grown other than flight feathers on his wings.

I thought about giving him the new cage just because he's put his time in with me and has technically earned an upgrade. But I don't want him claiming ownership of both cages. So Neko (is a MALE not a Female) will get the new larger cage and Mr Bell will have to wait until another day to get his.

And yeah.. while 19" is technically big enough... it's like asking you to live in your bathroom or kitchen vs the whole house... you can fit inside but it's still too small for living.

pards007 · Post by **pards007** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:50 pm

So after looking at an ungodly amount of cages, I was wondering one thing. Some cages have a really deep area between the bottom grate and the pull out pan. I can see the reason for leaving some room for larger pieces of whatever that falls (don't want birdie eating spoiled food) but on some cages it seems excessive (serious waste of real estate space). Any thoughts on why that large of a gap would be needed? I still have quite a few months before a large cage (3 weeks old today!).

AJPeter · Post by **AJPeter** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:14 pm

If your bird is an Alexandrine they have very long tail feathers and it would be best to leave the grid out, but if your bird is IRN then likely will have a shorter tail and you could leave the grid in. If you leave the grid in then you can line the bottom with newspaper but if you take the grid out you stand the chance that your bird will get down there and rip the news paper up. Not a good idea in the breeding season.

I have a plastic base and can easily clean up poop with a tissue so keep the cage nice and clean, and l leave the grid out because Billie is an Alexandrine parrot with a long tail.

pards007 · Post by **pards007** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:02 pm

That would make sense, I just kept thinking why would you waste those inches, but I was not thinking of the bird standing on the bottom of the cage, I wouldn't.

AJPeter · Post by **AJPeter** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:13 pm

The first cage l had was very tall nearly 6 ' and most of the lower portion was not in use, in fact the previous owner tied 3 foot high plywood on all sides. Billie used that cage but the lower part was completely wasted. I was told IRN and Alex like to sit eye level with us.

MissK · Post by **MissK** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:29 pm

Pards, we're talking about the air space between the newspaper (or whatever) and the grate where the bird walks, yes?

In my fave cages this distance is 2 inches. In my other cages it's 2", 1.75", 1.5", and 1", with that dimension tending to decrease as the overall size of the cage decreases. Gee, I got a lot of cages, maybe should hold a yard sale!!

Anyway, MY THEORY is that the space needs to increase with the size of the bird, to keep the bird from sticking that wee (or giant) foot into the mess and dragging stuff up to play with. In theory, if not in practice, the bigger the cage, the bigger the bird, the longer the leg.

I suggest my theory should stand until disproven or supplanted by a better theory.

InTheAir · Post by **InTheAir** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:02 am

AJPeter wrote:Fair enough!

Wht did you think of the cage l got for Billie, Claire?

I consider Nilas 2 metre long cage too small for him to spend a whole day in. I won't comment on yours.

If an IRNs wingspan is 17-19 inches long (which it is) than keeping him in a 20 inch cage is equais comparable to keeping you in my bathroom. Yes, you can move in there, just make sure you stand in the middle of the room when you do star jumps!
But seriously, a double flight with devider removed should be the minimum standard for anyone who leaves their irn caged all day. The bird should be encouraged to move around and play in it's cage, by means of simulating toys. They like their midday siesta and occasional nanna naps, but they shouldn't be encouraged into a habit of being dormant until the owner is home. They need to have a large, comfortable environment.

If anyone is interested there is a fairly in depth study on psittacula krameri (neonate to fledging) biometrics, incase you want to justify the grate deapth.
It also notes the differences between male and female birds (most of which is within a mm).

Donovan · Post by **Donovan** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:17 pm

Would we say 1" bar spacing is safe for an indian ringneck?

Donovan · Post by **Donovan** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:03 pm

new cage for Mr. Bell coming in a few days.
23x22x67
3/4" spacing
This fits my 24" criteria for being able to transfer it into the walk-in cage outside. I think the guard at the bottom will be a problem but i'll come up with a way to not include it during transfer.
this is a 3"-4" upgrade for him. I'm sure he'll hate being sent to his cage as much with this one as he does with his current cage, but seeing him spin around without his tail touching everything will make me feel better.

And for anyone interested, here is an ebay link to a fairly sizable cage at 23x23x44 for just $40. It's not very attractive and I can't imagine a bird could do anything but slide off of the top, but still.. nice price for the dimensions.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/23x23x67-New-Bi ... 258b284c90

AJPeter · Post by **AJPeter** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:20 pm

The seed guard maybe detachable, but if you keep it on it also collects poops. But it is a lovely cage for Mr Bell, ask him if he will take a lodger, l could move in, in a couple of days.

Donovan · Post by **Donovan** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:10 pm

The so-called 22" cage won't fit through the door of my walk-in cage outside. I put it together finally today.. I'm a bit disappointed. It's so flimsy. I'm gonna have to find a way to tighten up the cage, plus i'm gonna have to modify the walk-in cage now... make the door wider.. which means rebuilding the frame and the door

MissK · Post by **MissK** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:35 pm

Woah, how did I miss those last few posts??

1) Glad you upgraded Mr. Bell a little. That's showing the love!

2) Sorry you are not happy with the new cage. Is return an option? Probably too $$ for shipping, huh?

3) Can it be swapped for one like the new bird's?

4) Instead of rebuild your aviary doorway, can you get Bell to accept traveling in his old cage or a smaller carrier?

5) Something I just thought of-- has the aviary got a foyer? A space between the inside and outside to catch/trap a bird if he tries to exit the cage door with you unauthorized? If the answer is no, then I just changed my opinion of rebuilding the door. When you get to the point of transferring bird #1 in/out when bird #2 is already there, you will need a buffer zone to positively prevent escapes.

Best wishes!

Donovan · Post by **Donovan** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:10 pm

Mr. Bell's cage was just ordered today.

New Bird's cage was bought in person and just assembled this evening. I am mainly disappointed in how it's wider than it claims.. by 2 inches.. ..

I'm not taking it back though. I'll just make it work. It's also flimsy but I can fix that too with some pliers I think.. do some bending to a few key points.

The walk-in cage does have a foyer.

Now, transferring the birds to another cage while getting ready for work in the morning just isn't an option. It's hard enough getting Mr. Bell into his cage as it is. He just needs to already be in the cage so i can pick it up and go outside with it.

I still have spare material from when the cage was built so rebuilding the doors should be free at least. I just hope it doesn't turn into having to completely rebuild 2 walls because of it haha..

Anyway, the doors are 24" wide which was fine until tonight when I got curious and tried to move the new cage outside... realized it wouldn't fit.. when I measured it i realized it was 24" wide.. not 22" like it claims........ This likely means that the new cage coming (23" wide) will actually come up to 25" or so..

So, I'm just gonna go for 30" doors... ugh..

MissK · Post by **MissK** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:29 pm

What a pain in the patootie! Sorry about that!

If it's that dome top we already saw for Neko, a couple of cable ties will set to rest any fears of it exploding. I bent a few spots, too. The stand is a bit flimsy, to be sure. Donovan, if you don't like it, TAKE IT BACK.

If you put the bird(s) to sleep overnight in a little sleep cage, how would that go?

InTheAir · Post by **InTheAir** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:26 am

Sleep cages can be a good idea. When sapphire grows up we will probably be using one to try to discourage breeding drive.
I made a video of putting Sapphire in a travel cage for you. http://youtu.be/RDNxCi-oQnc
Don't worry, it really wasn't much trouble as she had used her travel cage today to go to work with Dave and I hadn't put it away.
It's easier to get her in there on the mornings as she is expecting she may get an adventure and appears as soon as you put the cage on the bench. Our guys always have time out of cages before work.
It took very little trouble to teach her to use it too. I put it on the bench, chucked a couple of her favourite toys in there and some treats and called her to my hand to check it out. She saw the good stuff and went straight in to play. I left the door open and let her play in there a couple times. When she was happily entering and playing I'd close the door and give her a treat. After that we started using it to go to the shower. She loves showers, I imagine Bell would be as happy about using it to get to his aviary.

The real trick is to never get into the situation where you need the bird to go in the cage in a certain time frame while you are training the trick. Any work you need to do with an animal/child/car is guaranteed to take forever if you are in a hurry!
When Dave gets to work he opens the door of her work cage and lines it up to the travel cage door so she can hop into the work cage. When I take her home, I get her to step up and let me restrain her with my other hand to transfer her - the workshop is not safe for birds to fly around in.
Training with positive reinforcement rocks!

Donovan · Post by **Donovan** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:39 pm

Putting Mr. Bell to bed at night is more of a negotiation than anything else. I turn out the lights and 20 minutes later he's willing to go to his cage.

Today I made him spend the day in his new cage. This morning before work i made him up a nice bowl of goodies that enticed him to go inside the new cage. He's been going inside to eat, but this time i shut the door on him and so he was in there all day.

But he doesn't seem to understand to go back to that cage at night. I'm trying to ween him off of his old cage, the one that's too small. Do I need to completely remove the old cage so it's not an option anymore? Or just keep gradually working him towards the new cage?... trapping him in it this morning might have been a form of flooding but it was that or let him roam free all day.

Mr. Bell isn't one of those birds that goes into his cage without doing everything he can to avoid it so it's just not as simple as putting him in there. I really have to convince him that the new cage is home. Does he need to spend a few days in that cage without getting out maybe? Surely not.