IndianRingNeck.com

Posted: **Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:26 pm**

Is there any future in dilute or dilute edged, need to know if I must scale down on them.

Thanks Anthony

Posted: **Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:14 pm**

one of my 2013 Dilute babies

Posted: **Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:58 am**

I agree on that cause I have Violet/Dilutes....Struggle to sell it tough....but keeping my Violet Dilute and Violet Dilute dom.edged

Posted: **Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:45 pm**

Anthony anth Mc Geer wrote:one of my 2013 Dilute babies

Your dilute looks like the these breed from dominant pieds

Posted: **Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:52 pm**

John Shannon wrote:
Anthony anth Mc Geer wrote:one of my 2013 Dilute babies
Your dilute looks like the these breed from dominant pieds

Posted: **Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:55 pm**

LOL I only wish it was one im sure its just youngster colours will be different after moulting

Posted: **Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:02 pm**

Hi John,

Is the blue bird on the wire from the same parents?
Do you have a pic of it to show wings? looks like an edged blue hen if not mistaken.
in which case you could be having edged turq pieds

what were the parents?

Cheers
83|V

Posted: **Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:13 pm**

Is Dilute a sexed linked incomplete dominant mutation or (spangle combination of all so called dominant pieds)

Posted: **Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:19 pm**

to breed Dilute you need both parents to carry it at least in splits.

edged is more likely as they are sex linked dominant, therefore you only need one edged.
if edged hen parent = all males from her will be edged visual
if edged male parent= half of all hens n males will be edged

A few breeders want to put edged to pieds, it'd be great if you already had it.

Posted: **Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:22 pm**

Ring0Neck wrote:Hi John,

Is the blue bird on the wire from the same parents?
Do you have a pic of it to show wings? looks like an edged blue hen if not mistaken.
in which case you could be having edged turq pieds
what were the parents?

Cheers
83|V

No Ben that is a Blue buttercup cock that is now matuire here is a pic

Posted: **Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:28 pm**

John,

Nice,
Edged buttercup IMO

I have buttercups and they have dark flight feathers, I have edged and their flight feathers are same as body color.

when you take pics next take some with flash or in the sun ;)

add violet turquoise to the buttercup and it should be a piedish looking buttercup.

stunning bird it'll be

I have a green pied/b-cup young. curious how pied b-cups will look like.

Reference for b-cups:
http://psittacula-world.com/EN/Mutation ... Fallow.htm

John, if you're planning to let him go, pretty sure there are a few breeders interested in acquiring him.

Posted: **Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:05 pm**

I have seen the Pied Buttercup and know about someone who has and that is Mature already....breeding with them this year. Hopefully I can get Chicks from him. And you have Dominand pieds not Dom.edged pieds....Go take a lOok at the SL edged section to learn more About edged....there's been a lot of talking

Posted: **Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:21 am**

Thank you Anthony.

FYI
Edged are: Sex-Linked Dominant Mutation

I am always learning and this is the latest data available on Edged.

Posted: **Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:31 am**

Ring0Neck wrote:
Thank you Anthony.

FYI
Edged are:-Linked Dominant Mutation

I am always learning and this is the latest data available on Edged.

LOL I know you know but I was talking about John ,he can go visit that section just to be sure

Posted: **Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:36 am**

no worries and if there's s-thing new , i do want to know, so anyone please share.

On Edged and Cinnamon crossovers , i think we should organise a few pairs to test crossover rate as Johan suggested and
i think Tienie is already organising s-thing with Madas.

Posted: **Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:49 am**

That's the only thing we can do... I'm breeding a Cobalt Dom.edged/Cinnamon/whwt to the blou cinnamon Edged/ whwt ...if I don't breed any Cinnamon males we know that's she is not Cinnamon and I'll let you guys know

Posted: **Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:34 am**

John Shannon wrote:Is Dilute a sexed linked incomplete dominant mutation or (spangle combination of all so called dominant pieds)

John, dilute is an autosomal recessive mutation. Your observations are correct about dilute reminding of dom. pieds, especially if we look at the feather barbs which are also dark. The DF dom. pied and dilute will be two very similar looking birds.

Posted: **Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:33 am**

Anthony anth Mc Geer wrote:That's the only thing we can do... I'm breeding a Cobalt Dom.edged/Cinnamon/whwt to the blou cinnamon Edged/ whwt ...if I don't breed any Cinnamon males we know that's she is not Cinnamon and I'll let you guys know

Wrong assumption. Both cinnamon and Edged are sex-linked mutations. So if your female is really a cinnamon edged crossed over bird then they will be inherited as package from the mother. A re-crossover for both mutations can't occur in female birds. So the males are Cinnamon Edged(sf).

Posted: **Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:31 am**

madas wrote:
Anthony anth Mc Geer wrote:That's the only thing we can do... I'm breeding a Cobalt Dom.edged/Cinnamon/whwt to the blou cinnamon Edged/ whwt ...if I don't breed any Cinnamon males we know that's she is not Cinnamon and I'll let you guys know
Wrong assumption. Both cinnamon and Edged are sex-linked mutations. So if your female is really a cinnamon edged crossed over bird then they will be inherited as package from the mother. A re-crossover for both mutations can't occur in female birds. So the males are Cinnamon Edged(sf).

Hi Madas;

I have read you mentioning quite a few times about the term "re-crossover" . Can you please elaborate in more detail abt its meaning , how re-crossover occurs and how it is being related to the sex of the bird (just like in above case you mentioned it is not possible in females). Thanks

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:56 am**

madas wrote:
Anthony anth Mc Geer wrote:That's the only thing we can do... I'm breeding a Cobalt Dom.edged/Cinnamon/whwt to the blou cinnamon Edged/ whwt ...if I don't breed any Cinnamon males we know that's she is not Cinnamon and I'll let you guys know
Wrong assumption. Both cinnamon and Edged are -linked mutations. So if your female is really a cinnamon edged crossed over bird then they will be inherited as package from the mother. A re-crossover for both mutations can't occur in female birds. So the males are Cinnamon Edged(sf).

Madas can you please explain LOL. what I understand is I can only breed Cinnamon edged in males then, and the females would be either cinnamon or it will be edged? and the female is breed from a dom.edged cinnamon male

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:11 am**

For a successful CrossOver your need a pair of two equal chromosomes. For sex-linked mutations this is true for males because they have two Z-chromosomes which can carry informations responsible for make up of the resulting phenotype. Females only carry one Z-chromosome. So Crossing Over for sex-linked mutations can only occur in males.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:16 am**

thanks for explaining.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:38 am**

Anthony anth Mc Geer wrote:
madas wrote:
Anthony anth Mc Geer wrote:That's the only thing we can do... I'm breeding a Cobalt Dom.edged/Cinnamon/whwt to the blou cinnamon Edged/ whwt ...if I don't breed any Cinnamon males we know that's she is not Cinnamon and I'll let you guys know
Wrong assumption. Both cinnamon and Edged are sex-linked mutations. So if your female is really a cinnamon edged crossed over bird then they will be inherited as package from the mother. A re-crossover for both mutations can't occur in female birds. So the males are Cinnamon Edged(sf).

Madas can you please explain LOL. what I understand is I can only breed Cinnamon edged in males then, and the females would be either cinnamon or it will be edged? and the female is breed from a dom.edged cinnamon male

No. You can breed cinnamon-SL Edged females. These females inherit the cinnamon and SL Edged gen from the father (sex-linked). So if both mutations should be visual expressed in a females phenotype both mutations must be placed on one Z-chromosome of the father which is then passed on to the female (and male) offspring. But this is only possible after a crossover or for a already crossed over Z-chromosome. Re-Crossover means that both coupled mutations on this Z-chromosome become splitted again. But again this is only possible in males because they have two Z-chromosomes.

Possible combinations of cinnamon and SL Edged:

0,1 cinnamon
0,1 SL Edged
0,1 cinnamon-SL Edged

1,0 split cinnamon (heterozygous)
1,0 SL Edged(sf) (heterozygous)
1,0 cinnamon (homozygous)
1,0 SL Edged(df) (homozygous)
1,0 SL Edged(sf) split cinnamon (not crossed over; heterozygous)
1,0 SL Edged(sf) split cinnamon (crossed over; heterozygous; visual the same as the one before)
1,0 SL Edged(df) split cinnamon (homozygous SL Edged; heterozygous cinnamon; one Z-Chromosome is carrying both mutations, so the crossed over variant)
1,0 cinnamon SL Edged(sf) (homozygous cinnamon; heterozygous SL Edged; one Z-Chromosome is carrying both mutations, so the crossed over variant)
1,0 cinnamon-SL Edged(df) (homozygous cinnamon and homozygous SL Edged; both Z-Chromosomes are carrying both mutations)

madas

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:35 am**

madas wrote:
Anthony anth Mc Geer wrote:
madas wrote:That's the only thing we can do... I'm breeding a Cobalt Dom.edged/Cinnamon/whwt to the blou cinnamon Edged/ whwt ...if I don't breed any Cinnamon males we know that's she is not Cinnamon and I'll let you guys know
Wrong assumption. Both cinnamon and Edged are sex-linked mutations. So if your female is really a cinnamon edged crossed over bird then they will be inherited as package from the mother. A re-crossover for both mutations can't occur in female birds. So the males are Cinnamon Edged(sf).
No. You can breed cinnamon-SL Edged females. These females inherit the cinnamon and SL Edged gen from the father (sex-linked). So if both mutations should be visual expressed in a females phenotype both mutations must be placed on one Z-chromosome of the father which is then passed on to the female (and male) offspring. But this is only possible after a crossover or for a already crossed over Z-chromosome. Re-Crossover means that both coupled mutations on this Z-chromosome become splitted again. But again this is only possible in males because they have two Z-chromosomes.

Possible combinations of cinnamon and SL Edged:

0,1 cinnamon
0,1 SL Edged
0,1 cinnamon-SL Edged

1,0 split cinnamon (heterozygous)
1,0 SL Edged(sf) (heterozygous)
1,0 cinnamon (homozygous)
1,0 SL Edged(df) (homozygous)
1,0 SL Edged(sf) split cinnamon (not crossed over; heterozygous)
1,0 SL Edged(sf) split cinnamon (crossed over; heterozygous; visual the same as the one before)
1,0 SL Edged(df) split cinnamon (homozygous SL Edged; heterozygous cinnamon; one Z-Chromosome is carrying both mutations, so the crossed over variant)
1,0 cinnamon SL Edged(sf) (homozygous cinnamon; heterozygous SL Edged; one Z-Chromosome is carrying both mutations, so the crossed over variant)
1,0 cinnamon-SL Edged(df) (homozygous cinnamon and homozygous SL Edged; both Z-Chromosomes are carrying both mutations)

madas

Thanks madas !

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:45 pm**

Anthony

You cobalt turq dilute is also SL Edged (SL Edged Cobalt turq dilute)

Tienie

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:50 pm**

But I didn't breed it ou of edged and lots of people say its edged but it can't be.I'll take a photo of my Dark green Dilute...this cobalt turq Dilutes nest mate....also looks edged....bred them from green Dilute/blue on Cobalt turq/ dilute female.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:04 pm**

Anthony

Your green dilute/blue cock must be a SL Edged dilute/blue. Please post a pic.

Tienie

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:24 pm**

not the best photo cause I cant see a thing lol will try tomorrow

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:40 pm**

Anthony anth Mc Geer wrote:will try tomorrow

Would be great. But can you upload in a higher resolution or upload to a pic hoster???

thx.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:42 pm**

I don't know how to upload to a pic hoaster and my high resolution is to big to upload ..... Please HELP!!!!!!!

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:43 pm**

Anthony anth Mc Geer wrote:I don't know how to upload to a pic hoaster and my high resolution is to big to upload ..... Please HELP!!!!!!!

Then send them via Email to mada_s(at)ymail.com

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:45 pm**

okay cool will do so just tell me what you want me 2 send you

Posted: **Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:09 am**

I cant see any edged in this Dilute male

Posted: **Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:25 am**

okay I think this is a bit better one with flash and one without flash

Posted: **Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:42 am**

Anthony

Take a pic of the cock with spreaded wings. If you have another dilute that you know isn't edged compare it with this cock. Edged will change (add) body colour to the flights.

Tienie

Posted: **Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:34 am**

Green Dilute male, Father of the 0-0-1 Darkgreen Dilute or whats your guys toughts

Posted: **Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:40 am**

Anthony anth Mc Geer wrote:Green Dilute male, Father of the 0-0-1 Darkgreen Dilute or whats your guys toughts

For my eyes this bird is to yellow to be a pure dilute green.

So i agree with Tienie on the SL Edged Dilute green. But can't say if sf or df SL Edged.

Dilute green:

madas

Posted: **Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:02 am**

Thanks a lot guys yes mine look very yellowish and from the chicks looking it looks like edged.What do you think about the darkgreen Madas ? Male cann be sf edged cause one chick was normal Darkgreen/Dilute/blue. Thanks for the pics madas helps a lot

Posted: **Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:43 am**

Anthony anth Mc Geer wrote:Thanks a lot guys yes mine look very yellowish and from the chicks looking it looks like edged.What do you think about the darkgreen Madas ? Male cann be sf edged cause one chick was normal Darkgreen/Dilute/blue. Thanks for the pics madas helps a lot

I think i have missed the darkgreen chick. Can you post the pic again? thx.

Posted: **Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:50 am**

Isn't it stil on the page?

Posted: **Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:57 am**

Darkgreen DiluTe

Posted: **Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:17 am**

I missed the pic label.

Sorry.

Posted: **Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:31 am**

Hey guys here's the dad of the 5 edged Chicks..... 1-0 Cobalt edged,0-3 Silver edged,0-1 blue Cinnamon edged....Can he possibly be a DF sl edged or is he a grey Cinnamon sl SF edged male.

Posted: **Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:04 am**

He took the moulting abit late tough....but he looks much better.... I baught the bird as a grey edged/Dilute...but because of the lightness I use to think its Cinnamon....but between him and the grey Cinnamon he is much darker in Colour

Posted: **Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:33 am**

He is not Cinnamon, dark grey feet and dark nails, you'll never get that in an edged cinn.
If anything split cinn if you think the breeding results match.
Perhaps df edged, but in this case 100% offspring will be edged, (keep in mind hens will still look lighter in phenotype)

Posted: **Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:51 am**

I also took a good look at the bird for the first time now.... Maybe DF but deff. A grey edged.

Posted: **Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:23 am**

Ants, if you have been breeding silver edged, or grey cinnamon-edged, from that cock, then he is grey edged/cinnamon (T2). He looks too dark to me for grey cinnamon-edged.

Posted: **Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:30 am**

All the pics I posted of the edges is his babies*....

IndianRingNeck.com

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