he doesn't know what to do as this hasn't been a problem before and he has had him for such a long time. Please help as we don't want this to be a problem when we have kids...Aggressive attacking...HELP!
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SunniEddie
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 3:26 pm
- Location: Redlynch, QLD, Australia
Aggressive attacking...HELP!
We have a Latino Indian Ringneck who is about 4yrs old. We discovered about 12 months ago that he is a boy as he developed his full ring and was displaying male behaviour like regurgitating and making his wings into a love heart. He has been my partners bird for the entire time and idolises him. He tolerates me and will let me pick him up and stroke him and will talk to me at times, but he also gets funny with me and will run away and jump off his cage when I try to pick him up sometimes. About a month ago Sunni was sitting on his shoulder and i went to give my partner a cuddle and Sunni lunged and screeched at me to bite me but missed, luckily for me. A few weeks after that, he was sitting on my partners chest while he was talking to his niece and saying goodbye on Skype. He was waving to his niece which took about 5 minutes haha but all of a sudden Sunni lurched and screeched and bit my partner on his nose and drew blood (he really hurt my partner). He was very upset about the attack as it hadn't happened before and didn't speak to Sunni for 3 days. Well all seemed well for the last 2 weeks and Sunni was loving him up all the time being sweet and loving...until this morning...we were snuggled up in bed with our dog and Sunni having a little lie in while we woke up. Sunni was sitting on my partners chest giving him kisses and talking to him and my partner was talking back to him also. He started patting our dog with one hand using a heavy tapping on his back which our dog loves and he had patted him about 8 times when Sunni lurched and screeched and bit a chunk out of his lip he doesn't know what to do as this hasn't been a problem before and he has had him for such a long time. Please help as we don't want this to be a problem when we have kids...
he doesn't know what to do as this hasn't been a problem before and he has had him for such a long time. Please help as we don't want this to be a problem when we have kids...Jess and Damo
xoxo Our animals are our life xoxo
xoxo Our animals are our life xoxo
Re: Aggressive attacking...HELP!
Hi. This sounds like a textbook case of the bird guarding his chosen mate (which would be your partner) against you, when you try to share affection/attention with your partner. Unfortunately for him, the bird is also showing displacement aggression. That is to say, he displaces his protective aggression towards, for example, the niece or the dog and attacks the actual object of his affection, your partner. The reason for this may be as simple as your partner was easier to reach.
The immediate action you both should take is that the bird must be a safe distance away from everyone if your partner is going to participate in an exchange of affection, or close attention, with anyone else, including the dog and probably even the telephone, possibly the computer or TV, etc. Additionally, no sensitive part (especially the face and head) of any creature should be within striking range of this bird at any time. That is not actually a solution to the problem. It is a stop-gap measure to protect everyone from getting hurt. If the bird has flight, he might choose to fly over and attack someone even if they are across the room, so be prepared.
To address the root of the problem, I believe your partner must distance himself from the bird. You should consult someone with experience regarding this issue. I have only "book learning" to contribute. I think it will involve someone else taking over the essential tasks such as feeding, outtings, and training. The goal would be to help the bird break his unreasonably strong and inappropriate bond to your partner. It is possible this protective aggression could subside when breeding season is not involved, but there is no reason to expect it not to happen at any time. The bird should not be punished because it is only doing what a bird would do. Instead, it should be guided to a healthier view of the group.
I wish you the best of luck with this sticky situation.
-MissK
The immediate action you both should take is that the bird must be a safe distance away from everyone if your partner is going to participate in an exchange of affection, or close attention, with anyone else, including the dog and probably even the telephone, possibly the computer or TV, etc. Additionally, no sensitive part (especially the face and head) of any creature should be within striking range of this bird at any time. That is not actually a solution to the problem. It is a stop-gap measure to protect everyone from getting hurt. If the bird has flight, he might choose to fly over and attack someone even if they are across the room, so be prepared.
To address the root of the problem, I believe your partner must distance himself from the bird. You should consult someone with experience regarding this issue. I have only "book learning" to contribute. I think it will involve someone else taking over the essential tasks such as feeding, outtings, and training. The goal would be to help the bird break his unreasonably strong and inappropriate bond to your partner. It is possible this protective aggression could subside when breeding season is not involved, but there is no reason to expect it not to happen at any time. The bird should not be punished because it is only doing what a bird would do. Instead, it should be guided to a healthier view of the group.
I wish you the best of luck with this sticky situation.
-MissK
-MissK
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SunniEddie
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 3:26 pm
- Location: Redlynch, QLD, Australia
Re: Aggressive attacking...HELP!
How do we go about me taking over his care...he truely doesn't seem to like me at all and has bit me on occasions when I have tried to take out old food items from his cage. He sometimes charges at me with his mouth open just for being near his cage. He has 2 other perches apart from his cage and he has time off the cage every day.
He will grind his beak and even snarl at me when I am holding him which is when I tend to put him on his perch or cage as he has a very sharp beak! He has his wings clipped and can't fly fully which is a bonus. He can be such a beautiful bird at times just not towards me haha
Thanks, Jess
He will grind his beak and even snarl at me when I am holding him which is when I tend to put him on his perch or cage as he has a very sharp beak! He has his wings clipped and can't fly fully which is a bonus. He can be such a beautiful bird at times just not towards me haha
Thanks, Jess
Jess and Damo
xoxo Our animals are our life xoxo
xoxo Our animals are our life xoxo
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ellieelectrons
- Posts: 2708
- Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:17 am
- Location: Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia
Re: Aggressive attacking...HELP!
I agree with MissK.
Your first step is to be the one to give his most fav treats to your bird. You will need to win him over with food. You could also try doing some training with him. Training promotes communication and increases your bond with your bird.
Cage territoriality is normal. I generally like to do my birds' food when they are away from the cage as they occasionally will charge me.
Down the track (once you have his behaviour less aggressive) you may like to consider getting a second IRN. Hopefully this will encourage him to devote his birdy instincts towards his birdy friend. However, this may not work as your bird may think he is human.
Ellie.
Your first step is to be the one to give his most fav treats to your bird. You will need to win him over with food. You could also try doing some training with him. Training promotes communication and increases your bond with your bird.
Cage territoriality is normal. I generally like to do my birds' food when they are away from the cage as they occasionally will charge me.
Down the track (once you have his behaviour less aggressive) you may like to consider getting a second IRN. Hopefully this will encourage him to devote his birdy instincts towards his birdy friend. However, this may not work as your bird may think he is human.
Ellie.
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SunniEddie
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 3:26 pm
- Location: Redlynch, QLD, Australia
Re: Aggressive attacking...HELP!
Hi Ellie,
I am sure he thinks he is human already. I would love an IRN but I do not think he would accept another bird after 4yrs of being the one and only bird.
I am new to the training thing and don't really know where to start with it all!
Jess
I am sure he thinks he is human already. I would love an IRN but I do not think he would accept another bird after 4yrs of being the one and only bird.
I am new to the training thing and don't really know where to start with it all!
Jess
Jess and Damo
xoxo Our animals are our life xoxo
xoxo Our animals are our life xoxo
Re: Aggressive attacking...HELP!
Hi Jess,
Setting the stage: First and foremost, please heed my warning to keep all head and face safely away from the bird at all times. Be mindful of where your hands are relative to the bird. Be sure you have correctly identified the bird's most and least favourite foods and interactions. Again, I must point out that I have no hands-on experience with this problem. My gut tells me that if this happened in my house, I would ask the partner to cease all interaction with the bird for the first week at least. Because this could possibly inspire another set of undesirable issues (screaming, plucking, depression), and strictly speaking is not very compassionate, I cannot advise you to do it. You will have to follow your own gut there.
Preventing the bite: I think you would be best served to proceed as if you had a new bird and it had a biting problem, and work to solve the biting. In practice, since your partner will no longer be acting so close to the bird, this may be the primary issue for the time being. As you spend more time closer to the bird you will observe him and learn his habits and body language. You will be able to predict the lunge in many instances.
You can learn to dodge the lunge as well as block it with objects at hand. I had a good bit of success, when my bird was inclined to bite, with this method. He learned (I think) that there was no point going for a bite because it always somehow ended up not what he had in mind. Please note this is not *exactly* positive reward-based training, but it is not harsh by any stretch. At the same time he continued to have close interactions with me that did not end up badly (his fears were not realized) and thus was (I think) desensitized to my activities. My bird was only using a strong fear-based defense, not possessiveness, so your mileage may vary.
At the same time, you will want to have a ready supply of goodies so you can reward the bird *frequently* for non-aggressive behaviour. At least initially, I would treat for any non-aggressive behaviour. I would also lead with a treat before reaching for the food cup in the cage. If the bird is not blinded by emotion he should readily appreciate that your hand brings treats. Hopefully, he will quickly learn that aggression will not release the treat from your hand.
Do not make the mistake of moving too fast, as the bird will see cause for alarm. Nature likes things slow and easy. Fast movements are for hunting, fighting, and defense. You block the lunge by paying close attention and moving your hand so there is a perch or food cup or toy, even a vegetable, always between you and the beak. It could be as simple and elegant as holding a food cup and slightly turning your wrist so the lunge lands in the food instead of on your thumb. If you are fortunate, you can kind of get in the zone with this and it becomes like a slow dance. Some people advocate allowing the bird to bite and trying not to react. I think this is not the most desirable strategy. It's very hard to not react to the bite, and any reaction will positively reinforce the bite. As well, I believe the act of biting is self-reinforcing. Better to simply not allow the bite to happen in the first place.
If this doesn't work for you, you can always make sure the bird is away from the cage when you service it, but that will not work towards the goal of endearing you to the bird. You want him to understand YOU are the one bringing in the resources, so he will shift some positive attention to you. You want to erase the inclination to attack.
On the hand: In addition, if the bird snarls at you when you are holding him, this is a not-so-subtle indication that he does not want you to hold him. So you should rethink how and when you are holding him. First you should check and see if he maintains his objection when there is nobody else in the room. If your partner is absent and the bird becomes sweet to you, that shows it isn't you, but the competition for your partner. If you two are alone, and not close to the cage or any other protected resource, and the bird is hostile when you hold him, then you must go back to square one and train the bird to step up and stay on the hand willingly. The key to that is, of course, kind treatment with goodies and a rock-steady hand.
I strongly urge you to seek out a person, possibly a professional, who is experienced dealing with a bird who is overly bonded to another human. I have outlined for you a plan I truly believe is good, however it is not tailored to the special nuance of your situation. It may not be enough.
I wish you the best.
-MissK
Setting the stage: First and foremost, please heed my warning to keep all head and face safely away from the bird at all times. Be mindful of where your hands are relative to the bird. Be sure you have correctly identified the bird's most and least favourite foods and interactions. Again, I must point out that I have no hands-on experience with this problem. My gut tells me that if this happened in my house, I would ask the partner to cease all interaction with the bird for the first week at least. Because this could possibly inspire another set of undesirable issues (screaming, plucking, depression), and strictly speaking is not very compassionate, I cannot advise you to do it. You will have to follow your own gut there.
Preventing the bite: I think you would be best served to proceed as if you had a new bird and it had a biting problem, and work to solve the biting. In practice, since your partner will no longer be acting so close to the bird, this may be the primary issue for the time being. As you spend more time closer to the bird you will observe him and learn his habits and body language. You will be able to predict the lunge in many instances.
You can learn to dodge the lunge as well as block it with objects at hand. I had a good bit of success, when my bird was inclined to bite, with this method. He learned (I think) that there was no point going for a bite because it always somehow ended up not what he had in mind. Please note this is not *exactly* positive reward-based training, but it is not harsh by any stretch. At the same time he continued to have close interactions with me that did not end up badly (his fears were not realized) and thus was (I think) desensitized to my activities. My bird was only using a strong fear-based defense, not possessiveness, so your mileage may vary.
At the same time, you will want to have a ready supply of goodies so you can reward the bird *frequently* for non-aggressive behaviour. At least initially, I would treat for any non-aggressive behaviour. I would also lead with a treat before reaching for the food cup in the cage. If the bird is not blinded by emotion he should readily appreciate that your hand brings treats. Hopefully, he will quickly learn that aggression will not release the treat from your hand.
Do not make the mistake of moving too fast, as the bird will see cause for alarm. Nature likes things slow and easy. Fast movements are for hunting, fighting, and defense. You block the lunge by paying close attention and moving your hand so there is a perch or food cup or toy, even a vegetable, always between you and the beak. It could be as simple and elegant as holding a food cup and slightly turning your wrist so the lunge lands in the food instead of on your thumb. If you are fortunate, you can kind of get in the zone with this and it becomes like a slow dance. Some people advocate allowing the bird to bite and trying not to react. I think this is not the most desirable strategy. It's very hard to not react to the bite, and any reaction will positively reinforce the bite. As well, I believe the act of biting is self-reinforcing. Better to simply not allow the bite to happen in the first place.
If this doesn't work for you, you can always make sure the bird is away from the cage when you service it, but that will not work towards the goal of endearing you to the bird. You want him to understand YOU are the one bringing in the resources, so he will shift some positive attention to you. You want to erase the inclination to attack.
On the hand: In addition, if the bird snarls at you when you are holding him, this is a not-so-subtle indication that he does not want you to hold him. So you should rethink how and when you are holding him. First you should check and see if he maintains his objection when there is nobody else in the room. If your partner is absent and the bird becomes sweet to you, that shows it isn't you, but the competition for your partner. If you two are alone, and not close to the cage or any other protected resource, and the bird is hostile when you hold him, then you must go back to square one and train the bird to step up and stay on the hand willingly. The key to that is, of course, kind treatment with goodies and a rock-steady hand.
I strongly urge you to seek out a person, possibly a professional, who is experienced dealing with a bird who is overly bonded to another human. I have outlined for you a plan I truly believe is good, however it is not tailored to the special nuance of your situation. It may not be enough.
I wish you the best.
-MissK
-MissK
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SunniEddie
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 3:26 pm
- Location: Redlynch, QLD, Australia
Re: Aggressive attacking...HELP!
We have decided to give it a go for a week with me taking over his care. This morning I had him step on my finger and he allowed me to pat him without pinning, biting, growling or any negative behaviour so I gave him a treat. He even had a morning chat with me. I not long finished changing the paper in his cage and sweeping the paper on the floor to which I got the usual 'what cha doing?' Over and over until I had finished.
Moved onto changing his seed to fresh seed both his inside cage bowl and above cage perch. That all went well. Then I tried changing his water which was where I was met with a little resistance more so for the bowl at the perch on top of his cage. I noticed the behaviour which warned me there was an attack inbound so I removed my hands from the sides of the bowl, waited a few moments and had him step onto my hand and moved him away from the bowl where he could see what I was doing but not charge me again.
I continued to changed the water and rinse out the bowl before replacing it with clean water and returning it to the perch then placed him back on the perch. I then changed the water inside his cage and when I returned from the sink after washing and replacing its contents I was met with him standing on his rope offering his foot up to step onto my finger so I allowed him on, replaced the water bowl and gave him a treat before putting him back.
Little steps but hopefully he will see me as a provider as well.
Jess
Moved onto changing his seed to fresh seed both his inside cage bowl and above cage perch. That all went well. Then I tried changing his water which was where I was met with a little resistance more so for the bowl at the perch on top of his cage. I noticed the behaviour which warned me there was an attack inbound so I removed my hands from the sides of the bowl, waited a few moments and had him step onto my hand and moved him away from the bowl where he could see what I was doing but not charge me again.
I continued to changed the water and rinse out the bowl before replacing it with clean water and returning it to the perch then placed him back on the perch. I then changed the water inside his cage and when I returned from the sink after washing and replacing its contents I was met with him standing on his rope offering his foot up to step onto my finger so I allowed him on, replaced the water bowl and gave him a treat before putting him back.
Little steps but hopefully he will see me as a provider as well.
Jess
Jess and Damo
xoxo Our animals are our life xoxo
xoxo Our animals are our life xoxo
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ellieelectrons
- Posts: 2708
- Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:17 am
- Location: Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia
Re: Aggressive attacking...HELP!
Well done, Jess. That's a great start!
MissK's advice is really good too. I don't really have more to add, other than one tip I've learned is if you are offering your bird a treat, if you offer it low down just below its feet so that it has to stretch to take it from you, you are less likely to get a lunge and a bite. It also allows them to have control over whether they take the treat or not and your hand offering the treat won't startle it.
Where abouts in the world are you? There are professionals who specialise in this kind of thing and someone on the forum may know of someone who can help you.
Ellie.
MissK's advice is really good too. I don't really have more to add, other than one tip I've learned is if you are offering your bird a treat, if you offer it low down just below its feet so that it has to stretch to take it from you, you are less likely to get a lunge and a bite. It also allows them to have control over whether they take the treat or not and your hand offering the treat won't startle it.
Where abouts in the world are you? There are professionals who specialise in this kind of thing and someone on the forum may know of someone who can help you.
Ellie.