Emerald inheritance

[trabots]

I have sent this email to Chris Whipps today:

Hi Chris,

You would enjoy http://www.indianringneck.com.

There is much conjecture as to the true inheritance of the Emerald IRN. The simple way is to breed one to a Green bird GUARANTEED to be not split for Blue. If only Green birds are bred that would prove Emerald is recessive and allelic to Blue, ie: another Parblue. That is not so simple obviously, as just about every IRN is possibibly split for Blue these days.

I did work out another way and that is to breed a so called 'Pastel Emerald' to a Blue bird. If Emerald is an allele of Blue then ONLY EmeraldBlues and TurquoiseBlues will be bred. If however ANYTHING other than these 2 phenotypes are bred, as in Blues, more 'Pastel Emeralds' or different coloured Greens then it would prove that Emerald is a dominant mutation. As you have 'Pastel Emeralds' I was wondering if you have planned to do this pairing in your upcoming breeding program and if not would you consider doing this for the immense advancement in Emerald knowledge this would bring? If in fact recessive we then have a possible undiscovered Emerald Green bird. A Blue CHCT or any other non-dominant or sex-linked mutation would also work as these mutations would remain hidden in the young. Of course the 'Pastel Emerald' can't be split for the same mutation either.

I was very pleased that after my several queries for answers on Terry's forum, you paired 2 'Emeralds' and bred the df birds. Good going. All mutations have a homozygote form yet it seems that nobody thinks past the heterozygote if it is visual. That is what finally proved up the Turquoise and Indigo as being different. Still amazed that with no df 'Sapphire' ever having being bred (or imaged), even some gurus treat it as a 'done deal'. Babu's 'Azure' is another one needing the homozygote bred. Perhaps you could ask him for us if he has done so.

Good luck this season,

Willy Stobart

cc: http://www.indianringneck.com

[Ring0Neck]

Some early clearheaded fallows are green non-split for blue
They are still floating around, and i guess he can pick one up fairly cheap.
* A friend has a green hen; 4+ years proven breeding non blues as i mentioned to you earlier but it would be an expensive exercise to get it inc. freight etc.
** Gwen wife of late Jack Smith has a pair of green CHFs not sure if they are split for blue but i assume Jack had good records, she's asking $800/pair

[sheyd]

I do hope he joins this forum to participate..

I for one would love to see a dfEmerald Blue I imagine it will be a very 'minty' looking bird

Why not put an Emerald to a Green bird? why should it matter if it is split for Blue? Any Greens from such a paring that aren't considered to be 'normal' coloured (green) could/should be considered to be Emerald Greens..and of course the Emerald Blues have already been ID'd.

My feeling is there will be no Emerald Green visual birds (as much as I would like it to be) I do feel as though it will act exactly as Turquoise, and be recessive to Green.

I would also love to see an Albino cock put to an Emerald hen- I wonder if anyone is going to do this this season

[trabots]

Why not put an Emerald to a Green bird? why should it matter if it is split for Blue?

If the bird is split for Blue it will create birds which could either be EmeraldBlue of SF Emerald Blue without giving an answer. That is on the assumption that the Emerald bird being tested has a Blue gene as Blue has been always used when breeding them. That is the test, to breed a bird with an Emerald gene but guaranteed no Blue Gene. If it is wildtype it is split for Emerald and is a Parblue, if we get a different phenotype guaranteed no Blue gene, we then know it is Dominant. This test is not possible in reality for the near impossible task of finding a guaranteed non-split Blue bird in captivity. That is why the test I have proposed involves an EmeraldTurquoise or Emerald TurquoiseBlue, a bird which has been bred many times before.

I have heard back from Chris and he is not doing that pairing, only mentioning that his mate Laffy is breeding a 'Pastel Emerald' this year, but no mention of what it is being bred to. Unfortunately there seems to be nil interest in Oz in determining Emerald inheritance only to keep combining Emerald with other mutations.

Recio, Chris says you are carrying on with Terry's group. It is not with Yahoo anymore so is this just a private discussion group? If so why not bring it into this group?

[Johan S]

Why not put an Emerald to a Green bird? why should it matter if it is split for Blue? Any Greens from such a paring that aren't considered to be 'normal' coloured (green) could/should be considered to be Emerald Greens..and of course the Emerald Blues have already been ID'd.

Shey, I agree with you. Willy's feeling is that the /blue portion of the offspring will taint the result of the experiment, but as you rightly point out, the phenotype of the "tainted" blue series birds are known and they can be identified. At that stage, we can simply move them out of the experiment, as we are only interested in breeding about 8 green birds. Sure, it will take twice as long, but we should be able to tell from those birds whether green series birds are affected or not. And if it seems as if we are producing an unusual amount of emerald blues, then we can move towards the idea that a green emerald looks very similar to blue emerald.

I agree with Willy in that a pure green bird will be the best option, as it will require the least amount of offspring to make a conclusion. Where Willy is missing the plot, is that statistics is a numbers game, and if we increase the number of offspring, we can conclude the same thing with the same confidence percentage using birds that are readily available. And one don't need to go backwards either. You can use any homozygous recessive green bird / blue, and you offspring will split for the recessive mutation, i.e. ADM pied green / blue x emerald blue (or EmeraldBlue). So you are making progress with pied and emerald.

Willy and I have discussed this in the past as well, and have agreed to disagree. No disrespect meant either way.

[Ring0Neck]

Molossus,

and a completely odd looking violet green

I can't find your pic, does your bird look similar to this?

[trabots]

Willy's feeling is that the /blue portion of the offspring will taint the result of the experiment, but as you rightly point out, the phenotype of the "tainted" blue series birds are known and they can be identified.

scenario 1:

Emerald Blue x Green /Blue
25% Emerald Blue
25% Emerald Green /Blue
25% Blue
25% Green /Blue

scenario 2:

EmeraldBlue x Green /Blue
25% EmeraldBlue
25% Blue
25% Green /Blue
25% Green /Emerald

Yes Johan, if you never breed a second Green phenotype it proves it is a Parblue. In all the 'Emerald' breedings to /Blue birds to date, no Emerald Greens have ever presented. Many more than 8 Green birds have surely been bred around the world?

As in

i.e. ADM pied green / blue x emerald blue (or EmeraldBlue)

or Green CHCT /Blue x Emerald Blue (or EmeraldBlue), or Green CH Fallow /Blue x Emerald Blue (or EmeraldBlue)

These pairings have been done already. Why are these pairings not accepted as proof that Emerald is a Parblue?

The pairings below only need a Blue to be bred to cover all possibilities such as if Emerald Green looks the same as Emerald Blue or Green. There is a possible wait, I never denied that.

scenario 3:

EmeraldTurquoise x Blue

50% EmeraldBlue
50% TurquoiseBlue

scenario 4:

Emerald TurquoiseBlue x Blue

25% Blue
25% TurquoiseBlue
25% Emerald Blue
25% Emerald TurquoiseBlue

[trabots]

The pairings below only need a Blue to be bred

Should be: Pairing 4 below only needs to breed either of the parents' genotypes to prove dominance for Emerald. If not pairing 3 is what really happened.

[Ring0Neck]

I will do it !

I'll pair up Greyblue Emerald cock X Green hen
Hen guaranteed not split blue - i have seen the offsprings year after year, no blues ever.

Birds should go down twice i hope.

If we are all in agreement that this pairing will suffice the purpose of the test, i will go ahead and acquire this hen, do the pairing and update throughout the breeding season of what's going on.

I'd rather do it myself this way i know for sure 100% the result is what is reported without a shadow of a doubt !!

SO boys, bet's are in - what do you think the offspring will be ??


Here's mine :

8 young over 2 clutches:
5 green
3 grey-green
*All emerlads and split blue

83IV

[Johan S]

Yes Johan, if you never breed a second Green phenotype it proves it is a Parblue. In all the 'Emerald' breedings to /Blue birds to date, no Emerald Greens have ever presented. Many more than 8 Green birds have surely been bred around the world?

As in

i.e. ADM pied green / blue x emerald blue (or EmeraldBlue)

or Green CHCT /Blue x Emerald Blue (or EmeraldBlue), or Green CH Fallow /Blue x Emerald Blue (or EmeraldBlue)

These pairings have been done already. Why are these pairings not accepted as proof that Emerald is a Parblue?

Willy, because this is the first I've heard of these pairings with green. We've asked for months, and nobody has been forthcoming with results. You talk about birds that have surely been bred, but do you know of any for a fact? If so, please provide me with some names of these breeders that have done these pairings and I'll gladly follow up. Fact of the matter is, there have been zero results reported.

And as a point of interest, I have two follow up questions as well. 1) How many guaranteed green / emeralds do you know of that are currently for sale in Oz? And 2) If these green splits exist, then surely (I use it loosely like you have) we should have seen at least some guys that can't afford homozygous emerald that buy up cheaper green splits and have bred emerald from green / emerald x green / emerald. Heterozygous pairings like that is common for very new/expensive mutations. How many such emeralds exits to your knowledge?

My money is on no clear answers for the above two questions.

I will do it !

I'll pair up Greyblue Emerald cock X Green hen
Hen guaranteed not split blue - i have seen the offsprings year after year, no blues ever.

Give that man a Bells. You, Sir, are LEGENDARY! And I hope you breed them by the dozen!

[trabots]

I will do it !

I'll pair up Greyblue Emerald cock X Green hen
Hen guaranteed not split blue - i have seen the offsprings year after year, no blues ever.

Ben, I presume the hen was bred to a for sure Blue or /Blue? In any event your proposed pairing will mean looking for either of 2 Green birds which is not wildtype OR Grey Green. Do we know for sure that Grey Green doesn't mask Emerald Green? A warning, you risk the loss of your Grey 'Emerald' cock pairing it to a long time established breeding hen. She may well kill it. I lost 2 cocks last season doing exactly that and 3 the year before, you would think I would learn. I put the first 3 down to hawk attacks however after last year's losses I checked my breeding records and all 5 dead cocks were paired with experienced hens for the first time.

Willy, because this is the first I've heard of these pairings with green. We've asked for months, and nobody has been forthcoming with results. You talk about birds that have surely been bred, but do you know of any for a fact? If so, please provide me with some names of these breeders that have done these pairings and I'll gladly follow up. Fact of the matter is, there have been zero results reported.

I am just using fuzzy logic Johan, 'Emeralds' have been put through Pied and CHCT in Oz many times based on the 'Emerald' CHCTs, 'Emerald' /CHCTs or 'Emerald' Pieds I see offered for sale by more than one breeder. I will bet that someone has used a Green Pied /Blue or Green CHCT /Blue to achieve these in addition to the obvious Blue Pieds or Blue CHCTs? The Smith brothers bred Cinnamon 'Emeralds', possibly they used a Cinnamon /Blue hen originally. If you want to contact breeders who may have done the pairing, the birds appear for sale from time to time on Petlink. In any event, these possibilities are is just another indicator pointing to Emerald as Parblue, supporting the supposed original Indian breeding results. As I said, the pairing which does not require looking for a different Green bird is Emerald TurquoiseBlue (or EmeraldTurquoise) x Blue.

Ben, I have an 'Emerald' /CHCT which you supplied through a 3rd party. How was it bred?

Recio, Stefan, you are in discussion with Chris, maybe you can persuade him to do the pairing.

[Ring0Neck]

Ben, I presume the hen was bred to a for sure Blue or /Blue? In any event your proposed pairing will mean looking for either of 2 Green birds which is not wildtype OR Grey Green. Do we know for sure that Grey Green doesn't mask Emerald Green?

Hen was paired to a green/blue cockbird for 3 or 4 seasons, result 100% green phenotype, last season she was paired to a greyblue; offspring was 3 or 4 greens and a grey green.
Green/blue Cockbird (ex-husband) proved split blue last season as offspring was one blue.
The green hen has been without a cockbird in her cage for the last 4 or so months as breeder sold the grey partner, making it easier to pair up.
There's always a risk i agree however i am willing to take it.
I highly doubt grey-green will mask emerald green then again that question would also be answered.

As far as breeders pairing emeralds to greens here in OZ i don't know any that i have spoken to, paying high prices for such expensive bird they would not risk it. I have seen breeders hesitant to put it to turquoise. so i'm sure the majority went blue -> playing it safe. Not many would let curiousity win over thousands of $. secondly green birds were highly out of favour till last year, hence prices now for green pieds/ct birds are higher then blue, not many green birds around.

I understand the risks that i could have greens & greygreens split blue or emerald from this pairing.

Willy the emerald/ct hen - i'll find out the parentage, pretty sure i've mentioned it previously in our email commz.

[trabots]

I highly doubt grey-green will mask emerald green then again that question would also be answered

That question doesn't get answered except by breeding an Emerald Green from that pairing. It takes twice as many birds to breed Emerald Green than if Grey Green was not involved. I hope you got the 'Emerald' Grey cheaply. Good luck, I do hope you breed an Emerald Green in any event.

[sheyd]

I will do it !

I'll pair up Greyblue Emerald cock X Green hen
Hen guaranteed not split blue - i have seen the offsprings year after year, no blues ever.

Birds should go down twice i hope.

If we are all in agreement that this pairing will suffice the purpose of the test, i will go ahead and acquire this hen, do the pairing and update throughout the breeding season of what's going on.

I'd rather do it myself this way i know for sure 100% the result is what is reported without a shadow of a doubt !!

SO boys, bet's are in - what do you think the offspring will be ??


Here's mine :

8 young over 2 clutches:
5 green
3 grey-green
*All emerlads and split blue

83IV

Awesome!
I also say 8 young...5 Greygreen, 3 Green- all being either split for Emerald or Blue...

[Ring0Neck]

The worst case scenario :
A nice way to start my own bloodline from green working my way up, being selective of what new bloodlines i add to the mix.

I will only add the best size/color birds of diff mutations
this could easily take 10 years+, a nice little project. I realise there's little or no financial benefit.

[Johan S]

I am just using fuzzy logic Johan, 'Emeralds' have been put through Pied and CHCT in Oz many times based on the 'Emerald' CHCTs, 'Emerald' /CHCTs or 'Emerald' Pieds I see offered for sale by more than one breeder. I will bet that someone has used a Green Pied /Blue or Green CHCT /Blue to achieve these in addition to the obvious Blue Pieds or Blue CHCTs?

Hi Willy, I understand where you are coming from with that logic, but I think Ben summed up a more likely scenario.

As far as breeders pairing emeralds to greens here in OZ i don't know any that i have spoken to, paying high prices for such expensive bird they would not risk it. I have seen breeders hesitant to put it to turquoise. so i'm sure the majority went blue -> playing it safe. Not many would let curiousity win over thousands of $. secondly green birds were highly out of favour till last year, hence prices now for green pieds/ct birds are higher then blue, not many green birds around.

I do agree that a turquoise emerald (TurquoiseEmerald) x blue would give us an indication of the allelic interaction. And it is an important experiment too.

However, I'll leave the forum with this thought for discussion. We know that turquoise is fully masked by green, so we assume that as a parblue it is dominant over blue and recessive to green. But, what if emerald actually turns out to be an allele of blue, yet changes the appearance of green offspring that carries emerald (i.e. green doesn't dominate it completely). I don't even know what we would call such an inheritance model where on allele is recessive and another is dominant compared to the wildtype. Yet, when considering the reported observations under UV, it doesn't seem completely impossible... Very unlikely, but not impossible until proven.

Considering above, I'm inclined to believe that we'll need both experiments. But I'm also open to being corrected on the above. I'm merely speculating. It's part of the fun.

[Ring0Neck]

Johan,

I like the way you think, creatively !
I was thinking exactly same thing as a possibility.


Hence my original bet = all green & grey-greens being emeralds split blue (optimistic? maybe others say unrealistic) but one can dream and i'm ok whichever way it turns out

Shey, read my prediction again Your prediction has a high probability; mine something like 1%

[Recio]

Hi everybody,

The question of the inheritance mode of Emerald has already been deeply discussed and what we need now are facts. Deon and Ben will test next season pairing Emerald to green birds. Deon has the advantage of owing a DF Emerald hen, and so even if the male is split Blue, all the offspring will be SF Emerald and it would allow to get blue and green series emeralds (then fluorescence studies would allow to know which are the green and the blue series birds). Ben has the advantage of next breeding season arriving in Australia earlier than in SA. Willy's option is also valid and should be done to fully understand any interaction between Emeralds and patched parblues (remember his "patchy" emeralds).

I have also invited Chris to join the forum. He already knows it and he was a member several years ago, but he founds the "format" hard to work with. He thinks that the yahoo forum is always at work in some kind of "private" conversations, but, as far as I know, this is not the case ... and I have not any news from Terry since the forum was closed. Hope he will join us. Anyway I have asked him the permission to post some of his pics concerning Emeralds.

Regards

Recio

[mallee_1]

Hi All,

Been following this thread with interest and it seems to still be creating some differing thoughts. I am not up with the technical terms you go into but I am considering putting a pair together that might provide some answers.

I am trying to buy a pair of normal greens that have only ever produce green birds to date.

Going to pair the mature green cock to a young emerald hen I breed last year. Might be waste of time for this coming season but can only try and there is no gaurantees the mature cock isn't split to blue either.

Tell me what you think the expect outcome will be, thought I would do this to try and help out the debate, sometimes it not about the money but the advancement of knowledge.

Also anyone have photos of a Cinnamon Emerald cock bird, heard they are quite an attractive bird

Regards Glenn

[Ring0Neck]

Hi Glenn,

You are welcome to participate, it is wise to have more pairs to compare /confirm offspring rather then just 1 pair.
So, for sure your pair will help even if the green male will be split blue it will still be valuable info.
the more results the better
If you decide to go ahead, keep us posted with pics and regular updates.
If anyone else wants to join in this test breeding program please let us know here.
I believe colaboration is the key to making a statement/advancement in genetics, we can all do a little.
Sometimes on your own it is much harder to prove/communicate to others your results and besides that's so yesterday to hide your pairings and hope for something new.

Regards
Ben

[Johan S]

Tell me what you think the expect outcome will be, thought I would do this to try and help out the debate, sometimes it not about the money but the advancement of knowledge.

Hi Glenn, that's a wonderful attitude, thank you very much!

You don't need to understand everything in order to participate. In your pairing, you really only have to look at the green offspring and compare them to one another. If they are all the same, we can conclude recessive. We'll need quite a number of these to be sure. If there are two different phenotypes (mind you, they might be very close), then we can conclude dominant inheritance. Just one bird looking significantly different would be enough.

[Ring0Neck]

Glenn,

We think that UV inspection is a must to inspect the offspring of emerald X green.

I have bought a few of these uv bulbs to conduct testing.
If you are serious to go ahead with the test breed, i strongly suggest you get one too.
If you like i can send you one, this way we know the UV reflected light is the same and makes it easier to compare.



Question to all: Will one bulb suffice? or should i be using 2 of them ?
Ben

[sheyd]

Shey, read my prediction again Your prediction has a high probability; mine something like 1%

haha yeah I did (when you first posted)...at first I thought it was a typo- then I realized it was wishful thinking!!

Am so keen to see the outcome of every-bodies parings- such an important event!

[Recio]

Hi,

These are some pics of a possible DF Emerald male from Chris.







The head colour is described by Chris as browner than the rest of the body. This is another difference respective to patched parblues: in homozygous patched parblues (Indigo and Turquoise for sure, probably also Saphire) there is an increase in Psittacin in the head which is expressed as an increase in yellow colour in parinos or as a greener colour in parblues. The browner colour in the head of DF Emerald male points to a change in colour not mediated by psittacins but probably by a change in feather structure. The different feather structure of the head respective to the body was previously discussed. This different head feather structure could be more sensitive to detect specific changes in some mutations acting at this level. The browner colour of the head of DF Emeralds reminds us of the DF phenotype of Dark ... but restricted to a specific anatomic area.

Regards

Recio

[trabots]

probably also Saphire

Recio, I know this must be getting boring but why does a scientific mind like yours unscientifically keeps referring to a 'Sapphire' mutation when no homozygote 'Sapphire' has ever been confirmed as being bred? You even admit this by using "probably". I again supply an image of a Violet IndigoBlue Pallid which I bred from the Violet IndigoBlue in the second image and which conforms to the only description ever made for a 'Sapphire' by Babu who has never even provided an image. The very pale yellow head is paler than normal for an IndigoBlue Pallid. This bird shows the variability of IndigoBlue as with TurquoiseBlue in psitticin quantity exibited with these birds. It has been accepted that a strongly patched IndigoBlue could be mistaken for a weakly patched TurquoiseBlue. Why is it such a problem accepting that there are weakly patched IndigoBlues which fit Babu's description of 'Sapphire'? I hope there is such a bird as a homozygous 'Sapphire', but until the full expression is bred for any mutation, why are you and others so eager to accept it as a mutation?
[URL=http://s1305.photobucket.com/user/ ... .jpg[/img][/url]
[URL=http://s1305.photobucket.com/user/ ... .jpg[/img][/url]

[Recio]

Hi everybody,

If Emerald was a structural mutation (structural yellow) it should be acting at the outer part of the feather cortex. If it was the case we should not expect important qualitative interactions with mutations acting on the spongy zone (Dark, Grey, ...) but rather with mutations acting (or supposed to act) also on the outer cortex (probably Misty, some iridescent Violets ?, ...).

Has anybody ever combined Emerald and Misty?

Regards

Recio

[prodigy]

Hi All

So what is this then ?

[prodigy]

[sheyd]

The head colour is described by Chris as browner than the rest of the body. This is another difference respective to patched parblues
Regards
Recio

Wow- I was not expecting that. Thanks for posting these

Really am looking forward to seeing the breeding results- perhaps we will see a different phenotype emerge with DF Emerald Green (when it finally happens)....hmm

[sheyd]

looks like an emerald turq????

That's what I thought it might have been too...


so, Peter what is it?

[prodigy]

Here are his baby pic's its a dead giveaway !

Molossus is our winner !

[Recio]

The head colour is described by Chris as browner than the rest of the body. This is another difference respective to patched parblues
Regards
Recio

Wow- I was not expecting that. Thanks for posting these

Really am looking forward to seeing the breeding results- perhaps we will see a different phenotype emerge with DF Emerald Green (when it finally happens)....hmm

... but ... most probably this is a DF Emerald green/Blue instead of a DF Emerald Blue !!!

Recio

[sheyd]

The head colour is described by Chris as browner than the rest of the body. This is another difference respective to patched parblues
Regards
Recio

Wow- I was not expecting that. Thanks for posting these

Really am looking forward to seeing the breeding results- perhaps we will see a different phenotype emerge with DF Emerald Green (when it finally happens)....hmm

... but ... most probably this is a DF Emerald green/Blue instead of a DF Emerald Blue !!!

Recio

If that's what it is then I am speechless!
would it be to much to ask, to see the parents of this bird?

[prodigy]

Pro hi,
I just sorta guessed the bird was Emerald(an emerald thread lol).
I must say that the turq prepotency is evident in the parent bird. What was its parentage? do both its parents have turq and dbl factor to boot ???

The parents are both "green series" birds bud

[trabots]

So Prodigy, I trust you will breed this to a Blue to once and for all determine if Emerald is recessive or dominant??

[sheyd]

Pro hi,
I just sorta guessed the bird was Emerald(an emerald thread lol).
I must say that the turq prepotency is evident in the parent bird. What was its parentage? do both its parents have turq and dbl factor to boot ???

The parents are both "green series" birds bud

So Prodigy, I trust you will breed this to a Blue to once and for all determine if Emerald is recessive or dominant??

Well at least now we know, that SF Emerald on Green does not show.. but, any chance of pics of parents?

[Ring0Neck]

Peter

You have not convinced me & you don't sound too convincing yourself.
Can Johan or Tienie confirm bird's parents and parents's parents & emerald mutation by being present in person?
I'm guessing you're fishing (uncertain) to see if we agree with you but that will not make it more or less emerald.
This sort of atitude can lead to a lot of confusion & misinterpreted statements.

No offence Peter, but at times you tend to leave some uncertainty when you present something.
You are a great breeder & a valuable asset for the rest of us just more certainty would be nice not a wink ;)


Cheers
Ben

[prodigy]

Hi Ben,

No offence taken, quite simple put I am not prepared to discuss this birds parentage at all.

Willy i certainly will put the bird to a blue this year and post results and pics (anyone have a blue Opaline female to donate for half the baby's?)

Johann is coming to my place on Wednesday, he can give feedback on the bird.

regards,

Peter

[Ring0Neck]

Hi Peter,

That's cool.

[prodigy]

Ben, Johann is coming to my place on Wednesday, he can give feedback on the bird

[Ring0Neck]

Just an update on my pairing
I have acquired the green hen and put the 2 together.
Here's a pic

http://parakeet.me/irn/f/emeGrnPair.jpg

[Ring0Neck]

It's the Olympus camera and also you get that on green birds, i know i do.
I will look for other green pics i have see if i can show you.
I assume she is about 7 years old.
----------
I will take more pics tomorrow with Cannon camera.
----

Here's another pic of the pair (2mb file) - she certainly has lots of yellow but for an old hen i think it's normal.
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/P4290910AL.jpg

This is a pic of her & 2 of her last season's young, pic taken at friends place before i got her.
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/green.jpg

[sheyd]

It's the Olympus camera and also you get that on green birds, i know i do.

Just out curiosity, what model Olympus are you using?

[Ring0Neck]

Shey

It's an Olympus E-P3 - i got it as it is not too bulky and had good reviews on it, but i think my son's dslr Cannon is slightly better.

[prodigy]

Hi Ben,

Please post some closeups of the eye in different lighting

[Ring0Neck]

Peter,

I doubt you'll find anything in the eyes.
Best to look under wings for a cream not yellow coloring
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/emergrnfl.jpg

Molossus - the green hen; i found something at the flights.. see circled above pic, nothing there though, perhaps dreaming

[sheyd]

Shey

It's an Olympus E-P3 - i got it as it is not too bulky and had good reviews on it, but i think my son's dslr Cannon is slightly better.

ah, not the same as mine then- was worth a shot

[sheyd]

Peter,

I doubt you'll find anything in the eyes.
Best to look under wings for a cream not yellow coloring

Hi Ben,

Please post some closeups of the eye in different lighting

I may be mistaken, but I thought Peter meant of the Green hen...

[prodigy]

Correct, thanks Shey

[Ring0Neck]

Pics taken with Cannon, last one with flash.
Eyes seem normal to me.
Peter you can download the pics and zoom in for closer look

http://parakeet.me/irn/f/grnha.jpg
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/grbk.jpg

http://parakeet.me/irn/f/grhflsh.jpg