baby doesn't like mommy anymore :)

[selma]

Hi all. Hope someone can help. On Wednesday we took bibou to have his nails cut and wings clipped since he started flying two weeks ago. When he flew into a window we thought it best to get the wings clipped again. We left him at the pet shop for about 2 hrs and ever since we brought him home he seems to be angry all the time, especially with me. He doesnt follow me around like he used to. Just sits and looks out the window all day talking to himself. When we enter the room he stop-s talking. He does follow my husband around though but wants nothing to do with me. Even when i put food in his cage he lunges like he wants to take off my hand Could it be because i'm the one who put him in the small cage to carry him in?
I have tried playing on the floor with him but he just gives me a really dirty look and walks away. He does like it when i sing to him but that's about it. . He's only about 7 months old. Could this be the bluffing stage?Please does anyone have advice on what to do?

[Mikaela]

Selma:

When my baby was 12 weeks old, I too had to do the very same thing. I had only had her 4 weeks so she was still a lil timid. Anyway, I took her to have all of this done and she too resented me for it for about a week. She lunged as if she thought we were going back to the 'little cage'. It hurt my feelings alot too. It is like we had to start all over again with the bonding. To her, I had wronged her. Betrayed her, even, she is very sensitive. Also, she made it very obvious how she felt about me by turning her back to me when I woud try to interact with her. THAT really hurt my feelings. It is amazing how they can give you the cold shoulder.

Just is my advice: Dont let her win by losing you, instead be patient and treat her no different than before (same limitations ect.) These are smart birds. Talk to her about the whole thing. I know that sounds rediculous but what could it hurt, they say they have the mentality of a five year old.

And most of all: Never forget you did this because you love her. You had no other choice. Looking back, I know now why my baby was angry, it wasnt with me, it was with herself. She couldnt get around like she use to and now depends on me for everything. These are independant babies and dislike this idea very much. She may not be following you because she is afraid to wonder around like she did before having flight taken from her. My baby doesnt explore half as much as she use too. Instead of looking for me when Im not in sight, she stays nearer her cage and calls for me. It is a certain tone, like with a kids cry, I know. Try to tap into that cry for attention. It sounds (my baby anyway) EXACTLY like a puppy whimpering... EXACTLY... sooo cute.

If you have more questions, let me know. This was very hard on me too. I took it very personally and though me and India were done forever. Just remember, she wont be as exploratory now because she knows she cant protect herself like when she had full flight. Hope this helps because I know how much it hurts.

[selma]

Hi Mikaela
Thanks for your reply and your encouragement. You were right. Before the week was over Bibou was back to his old self. Back to following me around and now even climbs on my lap to chew the buttons on my shirt. He is abit clumsy as you said India was. Now he is very scared when i take him from the cage he flaps his wings like crazy. He is so scared he will fall so he just jumps from my hand to the floor. That's not so good cos he could get hurt that way. So i just talk quietly to him to soothe him a bit as i take him down to the floor. It's working a bit.
He is sooo cute i just wish he wouldn't try to bite me everytime i touch his cage...even if i'm giving him his food....talk about biting the hand that feeds you
I just hope he will grow out of that behaviour and that one day i will be able to hold him and touch him and cuddle him.
Well, thanks again and keep us updated about india too.

[Melika]

Hane used to try to bite my hand when I offered treats or his food dish. I found a great way to nip that one in the bud.

If he tried to bite me and I have the food, I set the food item down immediately on the chair I have by the cage and walk away. He stares at the food and tries to get to it, especially his treats.

About five mins later I offer it again and if he tries to bite, food goes back on the chair for five minutes once again.

When you offer and your bird doesn't try to bite, the reward is the food or treat.

Worked brilliantly, I think I read it in bird talk once about dealing with an aggressive macaw, lol. Hane no longer tries to bite me if I have food or a treat. It only took a few days for him to understand that if he bites, no treat.

[Xenobia]

I agree with Mileka!

The best "punishment" you can give an IRN is to deny them something they want.

When Busey decides he wants to be nippy/obnoxious with me, I pick him up and set him inside the cage and close the door. Since he would rather be on the outside this cheeses him off to no end. I tell him "no biting, be a good bird" while looking directly at him. After about five minutes of this "time out" I offer him my hand to step up and he's just the sweetest thing ever!

Just remember these ARE extremely intelligent birds. Treat them like you would a two year old child, not a standard pet!

[Mikaela]

Not a truer word spoken, these birds are every bit as smart and manipulative as a two year old. They spend their days trying to see what they can and cant get by with. And just like a two yr old, they are happier and more well-adjusted if they know exactly what is and IS NOT acceptable and never sway from that. The first lunge you draw back from sits training back for days, for example. They desperately want to be on top of the family tree but to have a good, tame bird you must remind them it is a privilage to be taken care of so good, not a right. It is then they respect and appreciate you. My baby's play gym use to be on top of her cage (about 8 feet high). Although it looks nice I had to sit it lower because she felt like queen bee looking down on all of us.

And yes, they are smart enough to understand the idea behind time out. I use it with my bird and she knows whats up because she sits in her cage all puffed up with a hateful look on her face. Time out really affects her because she is NEVEr in her cage.

[selma]

But Mikaela how do you not draw back from the lunge? I can't stand pain and i do not want to get bitten or poked with that sharp beak.
He's done it to me twice already and it was oh so very painful.
Have to say though he only really lunges when i touch his cage and he's in it. The other times it's mostly when we're playing and he tries to go for my hands because he's so scared of them. The only time i've been able to touch him was when we gave him a bath and he was so scared and whimpering and he let me stroke his head cos he was too scared to even bite but once he was dry and back to his old self no way was i allowed to touch. I'm just hoping now that he will grow out of it.

[Lynne Watts]

Selma,
I have a 5 1/2 month old IRN. She was never really tamed when I got her at 2 months of age. She still loved to watch me on the computer and she throws her toys to the floor for me to pick up. If I'm on the computer and ignoring her, she'll start throwing them to get my attention. When I went away for 3 days and had someone else take care of her, she was very angry when I got back. She also got sick while I was gone. I took her to the vet and she said they love us and miss us more than we realize and the stress of me being gone probably contributed to her immune system not working so well and she got sick as a result. She was probablyy fighting something, but the stress of me being gone made her unable to fight it.
Anyway, even when I picked the toys up for her and returned them to her, she ran away, and then came back and got them and threw them again. Recently she's been taking the toys right out of my hand, so although it's slow, it's getting better. Just today, she grabbed my finger instead of the toy. Not hard, but gently and then she did it again and again. I guess she wants to find out for herself how safe my hands really are, since I'm always holding the other birds around her. She'll come around. She has been lunging at me quite a bit, but the last couple days, she hasn't. They are very smart and at that age, will go through that bluffing stage, but they are paying attention to everything. Your bird will come around. Patience really is the key I'm finding out

[Lynne Watts]

I forgot to mention, if you put your hand in the cage or toward your bird with your hand bent inward so the skin on the back of your hand is tight, then put that part of your hand toward the bird. If the bird bites that area, it can't get a hold. I did this with my male IRN that bit me so hard one day and held on for 7 seconds I thought I would die. Anyway, I did this with him while I was holding him in a towel and he bit about 5 times, but couldn't get a grip. Each time he bit, he got gentler until he stopped biting. It felt like a tickle to me.
There is more info on this on "the bird whisperer.com" I think that's theh site, but just look up bird whisperer

[Mikaela]

Offer your forearm rather than your finger. My baby was a lunger big time but not so much with a forearm. It is like she sized it up and thought "I can't get a chunk out of that like those tasty little fingers.

[Mikaela]

But Mikaela how do you not draw back from the lunge? I can't stand pain and i do not want to get bitten or poked with that sharp beak.
He's done it to me twice already and it was oh so very painful.
Have to say though he only really lunges when i touch his cage and he's in it. The other times it's mostly when we're playing and he tries to go for my hands because he's so scared of them. The only time i've been able to touch him was when we gave him a bath and he was so scared and whimpering and he let me stroke his head cos he was too scared to even bite but once he was dry and back to his old self no way was i allowed to touch. I'm just hoping now that he will grow out of it.

Take the bite and not draw back, he'll look at you like you're crazy. Then tell him "no bite". You MUST be the boss. When he sees biting isnt even noticed, he will stop, I assure you. For every action, there is a reaction.
Key: DONT REACT (other than saying NO BITE!). Everytime you draw back, it is teaching your bird he is suppose to bite at you because he gets the reaction of you drawing back... he won. Think about how a two year old gloats when they get their way. Same applies.

Also, don't put your finger in to encourage a step up but use your forearm instead. This is for two reasons:

1: Bites hurt less there and;
2: For whatever reassons, biting fingers sounds fun but a forearm is harder for them to take a chomp out of so they think better of it and hop on. My Baby always lunged until I started asking her to step up using my forearm, rather than my finger.

Has to do with the forearm looking more intimadating than a small finger.
Let me know if I can help you more.

[Datsun and Family]

You can aso try the distraction method when picking up your irn have a small toy or peg handy if he goes to bite offer him the toy instead. It worked for me during Datsuns bluffing, so long as she had something else in her gob she couldnt bite me!

[selma]

Thanks everyone for all your help and advice. I will try all your suggestions and let you know how it goes.