Bluffing.

[Kikithekiwi]

Is it okay for my IRN to growl and pin eyes becoming quite aggressive through bluffing. Is he really irritated or is this normal?

[InTheAir]

He's probably irritated. If you want a clearer answer, describe a blow by blow account of one incident when this behaviour occured. Ie: my bird was preening on his favourite perch, I approached him, put my hand under his tummy and told him to step up. He pinned his eyes, raised his feathers on head and the bit me.

[Kikithekiwi]

well intheair, i just had him on my shoulder and went up to itch my shoulder (about 5cm from where he was standing) and he bit my hand. i quickly moved my hand and he pinned his eyes. i got my mum to get him off my shoulder and i put him in his cage.

another time is when he bit me and didnt let go, i blew and he didnt let go so i tapped his beak and he pinned his eyes and growled. he has gotten a bit better, and i have learnt that sometimes he bites me again in defence. he somewhat understands now if i hold my finger out.

[sanjays mummi]

I don't think Sanjay has ever "bluffed" per se, only one bite in five years, and it was definitely an angst bite usually birds bite from fear. But Im no expert. Clearly your bird is still a bit hand shy, as is mine, maybe you put your hand there a bit suddenly, and it scared him.

[InTheAir]

Ok, so the best way to work with these guys is to throw all your ideas about punishing "bad" behaviour out the window right now and try to adjust your attitude to one of a little prey animal who's only defense is flight or bite. If your bird bites you, it is because it is reacting to something it is not comfortable with. The question to ask yourself is "How can I convince my little buddy that scratching my shoulder is okay?".
Another useful thing to know is that if you do the right thing and back off when your little buddy warns you that he is not comfortable with something he won't bite you. I am pretty sure that your buddy learns to give you more warnings rather than bite (both of mine have learnt I'm a bit slow and give me so many warnings now before they open their beaks and they were raised completely differently).
As Sanjaysmum said, your bird is a little hand shy. It is very common as hands can be unpredictable from a irn point of veiw. Tapping his beak and blowing on him will not increase his confidence. Btw if I get bitten I remove my hand straight away and the frequency of biting has not increased at all from me doing that.

I was looking after a female irn last week who doesn't like my female irn. They didn't once bite each other, one will threaten the other and sometimes they both threaten each other, but one always backs down at threats. They only ever are allowed out of the cages together in our biggest livingroom where they have space to fly away from each other and it is outside of breeding season.

When you notice that something scares your bird, avoid doing it. If you get warned, back off.

Now start building a positive relationship with your bird. Reward him for stepping up. Reward your bird when he is sitting on your shoulder, so he associates your hand reaching up with good stuff, then when you scratch your shoulder he will look at your hand hopefully in case there is a treat in there.

Yes, punishment can work, but honestly most people can't implement it correctly so it just turns into abuse. Timing is critical, the definition of punishment is something like "a negative stimuli that decreases behaviour". With irns it is much easier to use positive reinforcement and counterconditioning. They are sensitive little things who don't respond well to being punished for their instincts. I think it is a quick learning curve for anyone who owns a flighted parrot, why would parrot fly down from the ceiling fan if it has been told off or hit by someone? I sure as hell wouldn't!

btw neither my aviary raised or hand raised bird have had a "bluffing" stage. They sometimes get annoyed with me and tell me off, but they have reasons in their own minds and instincts.

[Kikithekiwi]

Thanks heaps sanjays and intheair.
What would be a good treat he would be able to quicklet eat. I want to train him. But i have nothing he can eat quickly and takes him like 5 mins XD by then he forgets. I did do some training but he was young and forgot the next day. I trained him to like my hand. He has gotten much much better over time. He lets me rub my face one his back and will not care one bit.
As he is sensitive to has, exactly what sort of training would i do. If he doesnt want to do something he simply wont and make me think in training he wont be very coropative.
Cheers for your help btw

[Gabi25]

I think small pieces of apple will do, or seeds that they really like..
Harry loooooooves the black sunflower seeds in his seedmix, the ones he's not supposed to eat to much of. So i've taken them out and give them (try to give them) when I'm training him instead. He eats them really fast.

[InTheAir]

Here's an article about bluffing by a highly experienced professional bird trainer: http://goodbirdinc.blogspot.com.au/2015 ... f.html?m=1
It makes perfect sense to me and I have tried it and can report that the advice given works.

[Gabi25]

This is very helpful thank you!

[MissK]

If sunflower seed is too big and if your bird likes millet, he may work for that, especially if it's the good stuff off the spray. I don't know why mine think that's better, but they do. Something in between is safflower seed. Any seed goes down quicker if it is already out of the shell and you can break sunflower seeds in half. Another powerful treat is a nut - your bird will tell you which one he likes. You can chip off a very tiny flake of nut that the bird will eat in an instant. It's a very high value treat for my Rocky (pecans) and the hardest part is keeping him from taking the whole thing while I'm getting the little bit off. If the bird takes the treat in his foot to eat, my opinion is the treat is much too big. In my opinion also, if the bird will understand to take a treat you pass to him or drop in the cup for him, you really have all you need to get started. It is your way of saying "Yes, thank you (and sometimes Please), that's what I wanted, do that again and you can expect another treat, etc."

[SkyeBerry]

Ah Claire - you beat me to the post - I was going to link Barbara's new article. Do you think it should be a sticky? I know we have discussed this 'bluffing' idea several times.