Identification of cobalt violet and cobalt violet green

[cleartail]

Ok here are the pictures.
Firstly the family of birds.
Cobalt green/blue male X violet female and their offspring.
I believe they are cobalt and coballt violet green - I would just like some reassurance.
Most photos are flash on - Couldnt get the colours to show with no flash.
Flash compensation was low 0.7.

Violet female on perch
two in question back right

Same again

family-2.jpg (97.02 KiB) Viewed 9836 times

Violet hen top.
Two in question bottom left and right

Cobalt violet green? violet hen behind

cobalt-violet-green-and-vio.jpg (97.47 KiB) Viewed 9836 times

Now some matures taken at the same time but different aviary orientation and light - Flash was the same though.
Cobalt violet is moutling - so maybe not totally representative.

Sold to me as a cobalt violet

Cobalt split CHCT

Mature violet hen - Same light as cobalt and cobalt violet above

Fairly certain I am correct in my assumptions but am open to comment.
Thanks all.

[sheyd]

The parent cock bird looks like a reg Wildtype and not a sfDark Green - the 2 babies in question look sfViolet Green and sfViolet Blue.

See sfDark, Wildtype & sfDeep greens (from left to right) here:
http://parakeet.me/irn/m/em/DarkWildtypeDeep.JPG

It is almost impossible to 'guess' the correct colours on individual birds- esp in Violet, Dark or a combination of the two without reference birds in the same pic- and even then it is only a 'guess'.
Is the sfDark Blue (cobalt) proven? I might have thought sfViolet of the lighter strain- but as I've said its hard to tell.

Interested in hearing what the others think-
lovely birds

[bennjamin]

I agree with you sheyd, dad is not a dark green and the 2 babies in question look sfViolet Green and sfViolet Blue to me.

[cleartail]

Baby is definitely not violet closer to cobalt. Look at the violet hen with the plain blue and the chick in question behind in the first photo and the next two photos!!!
Baby is no way a violet all three photos show it. Third photo particularly -Violet hen top, blue middle, Cobalt??? bottom.
He has a violet brother from a previous clutch that is no where near that colour.

How could a wildtype green produce a cobalt offspring though with a violet hen??
Dad is definitely cobalt green/blue. Flash must be doing something to the photo to make you think he is plain green.
I will take another pic
Way different in colour to normal green.
I know photos can be misleading but.
I respect your opinions but I am not new to this.
I do have a lot of trouble with violet and violet cobalt though - maybe my eyes...

[Mikesringnecks]

Hi Cleartail,
As Sheyd said you need known birds in the photo to compare with as light, camera and computer play all sorts of tricks. I have attached some comparator pics that may help a bit with violet, cobalt and violet cobalt but I haven't got any in green series.
Kind regards
Mike

[JonoH]

The dark green with the blue tail is a Violet Green, its exactly the same as the one i bred this year!

[sheyd]

Dad is definitely cobalt green/blue. Flash must be doing something to the photo to make you think he is plain green.
I will take another pic
Way different in colour to normal green.

This can easily be cleared up- take a pic of the sire cock in with a reg Green (Wildtype).

[sheyd]

As Sheyd said

Hi Mike- you can just call me Shey ;) (thought you knew that was me lol)

[cleartail]

I will try and get a pic with all birds in same photo.
ie Supposed violet cobalt, violet, cobalt and whatever the baby is.

Light does do funny things.
Here is a pic of a violet CHCT from this year that I had enquiries on thinking it may have something else in it due to the
photo.
The bird is a nice violet CHCT but the pic really brings something out.
The bird looks like a normal violet CHCT when with other CHCT's.
Also pics of a green CHCT taken a minute apart but different flash settings a good example of what computers, cameras and flash settings can do.
These pics are in a similar light to the previous pics of the ?? birds above. 1 aviary away facing same direction at a similar time of day.
Just an example. Not really contributing anything to solving this.http://www.indianringneck.com/forum/pos ... 26&t=18395#

Violet CHCT flash on

violet-chct.jpg (91.68 KiB) Viewed 9732 times

green CHCT flash on

green-ht-2013.jpg (97.57 KiB) Viewed 9732 times

Same bird flash off

Green CHCT flash off

[sheyd]

Hi Cleartail- yes, I've take the light into account- I prefer pics not altered by flash and so I've based my opinion on the top one.
My thoughts remain the same. If the parent cock were a Dark Green- he'd be an 'olivey' colour like one of the chicks in question (which I wholly believe is a Violet Green)- also, if you look at the parent cocks head, it is of the typical 'apple green' colouration mature Wildtype cocks have- his body colour also matches that of a Wildtype. The two chicks in question look as though they have matching coloured tails- also a clue.

[Ring0Neck]

Shey,

Did you take into account that we have Type 1 & Type 2 in Dark Greens?
Pretty sure we get a slight variation in phenotype.


You've got a valid point on the head but i would still pass it as Dark Green.

[sheyd]

Shey,

Did you take into account that we have Type 1 & Type 2 in Dark Greens?
Pretty sure we get a slight variation in phenotype.


You've got a valid point on the head but i would still pass it as Dark Green.

What is type 1 & type 2? I thought we only had one Darkfactor? If you're talking about Deep, then that a completely different kettle of fish-- of which the cock doesn't match anyhow.

Could you explain please?

[Ring0Neck]

input dark green /blue pair in gencalc & it'll show up in results
http://www.gencalc.com/gen/eng_genc.php?sp=0PsitIR

[sheyd]

still doesn't explain what it is--- what do you think the chicks are?

[Ring0Neck]

If i remember correctly Johan knows the dark theory well

Ron's Type 1

[sheyd]

If i remember correctly Johan knows the dark theory well

Ron's Type 1

This does not look like a Wildtype to me. -- I think the only way to solve, is for the op to post his cock along side that of a Wildtype so we can be a little more informed on his birds true appearance.

..............
I would be interested in learning about the two types if Johan wanted to share his knowledge

[Johan S]

Ben, type 1/2 refers to whether the dark gene and the blue gene has/has not crossed over in green series birds. When one purchases a dark green / blue, ask yourself was it bred from a dark green / blue x blue, or a green / blue x cobalt? The latter is a much better option, since blue and dark have crossed over. In this case, the phenotype doesn't matter.

Having said that, there exists variation in cobalt. There is a lighter (European) and a darker (SA) blue phenotype, and both will produce mauve birds in DF. When using 2x cobalts of the darker strain, the mauve is a very dark, almost black bird.

[sheyd]

thankyou for taking the time to explain Johan (& Lee)- I'm mulling it over in my head... it's like type 2 is 2 (/Blue & Dark from the one parent)... and Type 1 is 1 (Dark from one parent, /Blue from the other)- why would type 2 be considered the better type? do they have a higher than what is considered normal chance of having Dark young?

would love to see a Mauve of the darker strain...sounds amazing!

[Ring0Neck]

As Molossus pointed out, T1 & T2 will give you diff. %s in offspring

1.0 blue
x 0.1 D green /blue(T1)
% from all 1.0
7.0% 1.0 D blue
43.0% 1.0 D green /blue(T1)
43.0% 1.0 blue
7.0% 1.0 green /blue

1.0 blue
x 0.1 D green /blue(T2)
% from all 1.0
43.0% 1.0 D blue
7.0% 1.0 D green /blue(T1)
7.0% 1.0 blue
43.0% 1.0 green /blue

From a Type 1 X Blue your chances of breeding a Cobalt are slim & vice versa

would love to see a Mauve of the darker strain...sounds amazing!

Johan Do you have pics of both type Mauves?

[madas]

Johan Do you have pics of both type Mauves?

Not mauve but two versions of cleartail cobalt:





This pair has produced mauve offspring.

[Johan S]

Johan Do you have pics of both type Mauves?

Ben, I don't particularly like the lighter ones, so I got rid of them all. You'll find many pics of mauves in Oz though that follows the lighter phenotype.

Here is a chick of this year:


And in sunlight.

[prodigy]

now that's a Mauve !

[sheyd]

Gorgeous bird!

[Johan S]

Thanks Pro / Shey.