Emerald inheritance

[Johan S]

I'm a contrarian person !

Hey Ben, that's my job mate.

Indeed you are !

We have more contrarians on this forum than we think .

Anyone else identifies himself as a contrarian? i can think of 1 more at least.

You're not talking about me, are you ???

[Johan S]

We don't have Misty in OZ, might be some around but i'm not aware of any, so maybe SA boys can help !?
--------------------

I had a long (10sec) look at this pic & it struck me
This photo might just be the indicator telling us...
Emerald is a Parblue mutation.. hmmm

Ben, whenever I think that, I compare the tail and flight feathers with this one. Then I think about the different shades of yellow (and the reported differences in UV colour). And the 25% doubt creep in...

[Ring0Neck]

I know what you mean.
Does anyone have a lutino edged? i think bird's phenotype would be very similar to turquoise-ino's, esp. in df or a hen

[Johan S]

I know what you mean.
Does anyone have a lutino edged? i think bird's phenotype would be very similar to turquoise-ino's, esp. in df or a hen

Ben, not to my knowledge. It might be a very interesting combination and will assist with the calculation of the crossover ratio in the Z-chromosome mutations. Albeit, edged pallid would be easier to ID and give the same information for that calculation. Would we see an effect in the ino phenotype? I don't know, but I'm very curious about it since other mutation combinations have shown unexpected things...

[Ring0Neck]

I believe this bird is an edged lutino,
pic is from an add.
see the clear flights and there was no turquoise in that pack of ringnecks

[sheyd]

I guess i like going against the trend - I'm a contrarian person !

I came to that conclusion (about Emerald) on my own- and I also consider myself a contrarian person in some regards ;)

[Carr.birds]

Ben

I can only post a pic of a greygreen nsl-ino edged if it will assist

Tienie

[madas]

Ben

I can only post a pic of a greygreen nsl-ino edged if it will assist

Tienie

It would be great. Like to See if Nslino is masking grey (in the Same Way as slino) too.

Thx Stefan

[Carr.birds]

Stefan

It will be my pleasure if you can wait for 18 hour till tomorrow afternoon.

Tienie

[Ring0Neck]

UPDATE:
Regarding pairing my emerald to green hen
I have talked to the previous owner and i also remembered the green hen always goes down very late in the season.
last year i had second clutches and she just went down.
she was always late going down last few seasons and she's not going to change now.
What i am doing (other suggestions are welcome)
I am pairing a deepblue to the emerald cock
once she lays eggs i will foster them out and replace the hen with the green one.


does anyone have a better solution?

Update: So far the grey emerald x deep blue - no eggs as yet 10/sept and time is running out for the green pairing unfortunately.

Update:
Hen laid first egg 11th Sept.

[trabots]

I am posting this with the fear that I have overlooked something very simple but here goes.

Let us assume that Emerald is incomplete dominant. I will call these birds 'Emerald'. To get the outcomes which are being observed then 'Emeralds' have to be Blue series or SF Emerald Blues. If 'Emeralds' were Green series or SF Emerald /Blues then we would already have Emerald Greens from 'Emerald' x Blue pairings. We don't so it confirms that the 'Emeralds' we know, if dominant, are Blue series birds.

SF Emerald Blue x Blue =

50% SF Emerald Blue
50% Blue
This is what we are experiencing.

SF Emerald /Blue x Blue =

25% Emerald Blue
25% Emerald /Blue
25% Blue
25% Green /Blue
If this were the case we would already have our Green series Emerald in the Emerald /Blues which we apparently don't have yet.

So knowing that 'Emeralds' if dominant are in fact SF Emerald Blues, let's look at this test:

SF Emerald Blue x Green /Blue =

25% Emerald Blue
25% Emerald /Blue
25% Blue
25% Green /Blue

Or:

EmeraldBlue x Green /Blue =

25% Green /Emerald
25% Green /Blue
25% Blue
25% EmeraldBlue

If I haven't missed something why would not this be a third and much simpler test for Emerald inheritance than trying to find a bird without a Blue gene or alternatively an EmeraldParblue heteroallele? If this pairing produced a 2nd Emerald phenotype then we confirm Emerald is dominant, if a 2nd Emerald phenotype is never bred it confirms Emerald as Parblue.

My apologies if I have missed something.

[trabots]

Willy I suppose any green type(normal,D,Violet green)/blue can be trialled.
Lets see of this season proves the genetic makeup of the Emerald mutation.

Cheers Molussus, using a Violet Green /Blue and such would confuse the search for a second Green phenotype indicating the SF Emerald Green has been found. Only Green /Blue will convince. As far as what this season will prove I emailed a couple of Emerald breeders including Chris asking if they had paired an EmeraldTurquoise to a Blue but couldn't detect any need to determine Emerald inheritance let alone why that pairing would prove it.

What I am after however is confirmation that I haven't erred in this line of logic, or this line of logic:

Emerald Blue x df Turquoise =

50% Emerald /Turquoise (I presume no Turquoise would be evident in this scenario)
50% TurquoiseBlue

OR

EmeraldBlue x df Turquoise =

50% EmeraldTurquoise (Turquoise is visible in this heteroallele)
50% TurquoiseBlue

Cheers

[Johan S]

I am posting this with the fear that I have overlooked something very simple but here goes.

So knowing that 'Emeralds' if dominant are in fact SF Emerald Blues, let's look at this test:

SF Emerald Blue x Green /Blue =

25% Emerald Blue
25% Emerald /Blue
25% Blue
25% Green /Blue

Or:

EmeraldBlue x Green /Blue =

25% Green /Emerald
25% Green /Blue
25% Blue
25% EmeraldBlue

If I haven't missed something why would not this be a third and much simpler test for Emerald inheritance than trying to find a bird without a Blue gene or alternatively an EmeraldParblue heteroallele? If this pairing produced a 2nd Emerald phenotype then we confirm Emerald is dominant, if a 2nd Emerald phenotype is never bred it confirms Emerald as Parblue.

My apologies if I have missed something.

Willy, we've been saying this repeatedly for months, and you were always the one resistant to the idea and that only homozygous green without a blue gene will work. However, it shows tremendous amounts of character to come onto a public forum and admit that you have overlooked the possibility, so kudos to you! This is a much simpler test and I'm very happy that most (all?) of us now agree to the methodology and possibility. Welcome on board!

And I agree with your later post on homozygous parblues. "DF" turquoise x Emerald blue should work splendidly and readily available.

But once again, kudos to you.

[Recio]

Hi,

One correction to Willy's calculations: if Emerald is an incomplete dominant mutation (and not a parblue or blue allele) and considering SF Emerald ...

Emerald Blue x df Turquoise =

50% Emerald BlueTurquoise
50% TurquoiseBlue

... but, as Johan says ... the golden prove is to pair a phenotypic Emerald bird (it does not matter if it is blue or green series bird) to a green bird not split for any blue or parblue.

Regards

Recio

[trabots]

Thanks Recio, you are right and therefore that last scenario won't work because we would have no way of telling the difference between an Emerald TurquoiseBlue and an EmeraldTurquoise.

[trabots]

we've been saying this repeatedly for months

Hi Johan, I myself offered this test on 17 April 2013 in this thread. What we disagreed on was the number of 'Emerald' x Green /Blue pairings that had already been done. Last year I was confident that this breeding had already been done, this year I am not nearly so sure as you were last year. I am getting a bit fuzzy upstairs not recalling that original post. Thanks in any event.

[madas]

emerald violet of Europe:



No info whether ef or df emerald. but look patched too like the one of Willy.

[Ring0Neck]

That is an Emerald alright,
pic might show more patches but under the sun it'll be normal emerald IMO
or emerald + parblue that will intensify as it matures!?

Whoever tried to take pics of the emeralds knows how hard it is to get the right pic to show color we see with naked eye.

** Are the birds behind related to the emerald bird?


pic we know of the emerald hen

[madas]

** Are the birds behind related to the emerald bird?

No. They are Moustached Parakeets.

madas

[trabots]

I posted images of a Violet Emerald on the "Emerald" thread. Not the same

[Ring0Neck]

I compared the bird with an emerald (missed violet altogether)
the color test does show emerald but without violet

I just wonder, if Willy's patched emeralds were violet also, would it look as light as the one Madas posted?

[madas]

Here are two more pics:





perhaps it is a violet AquaTurq.

madas

[Recio]

Hi Madas,

Let me take advantage of your proposition. Does Aqua exist in IRN? Is it the same than Emerald? As you know I have been trying to prove that what we called Aqua in IRN was not the same Aqua mutation found in other species, but a different mutation probably inheriting as incomplete dominant and maybe acting on feather structure so that a structural yellow is produced allowing to get an homogeneous brigth yellow colour. This Emerald shows a specific fluorescence under uv.

The true Aqua mutation in IRN, if it ever exists, should also show this homogeneous yellow, but it would be due to the production of a low amount of psittacin in the whole body (probably non fluorescent psittacin, since the presence of fluorescent psittacine is associated with higher amounts of psittacin production) and it would not be iridiscent under natural ligthing, since it would not act on feather structure.

After these considérations ... can you tell us if the bird appears as iridiscent under natural ligthing? Could you check for fluorescence under uv? ... have you uncovered the true Aqua in IRN?

Regards

Recio

[Ring0Neck]

Or is it Emerald (no blue) violet ??

[trabots]

I just wonder, if Willy's patched emeralds were violet also, would it look as light as the one Madas posted?

Here is an update of the 'patched emeralds'. As you can see they are clearly different from a TurquoiseBlue, the darker green being different and coming in in different areas of the bird. All of the darker green colour is UV flourescent. The bird is moulting in flourescent pscitticins and I am confident it will be 100% flourescent as the darker green colour will hopefully completely colour the bird after the 15mo moult coming up.

[madas]

Hi Madas,

Let me take advantage of your proposition. Does Aqua exist in IRN? Is it the same than Emerald? As you know I have been trying to prove that what we called Aqua in IRN was not the same Aqua mutation found in other species, but a different mutation probably inheriting as incomplete dominant and maybe acting on feather structure so that a structural yellow is produced allowing to get an homogeneous brigth yellow colour. This Emerald shows a specific fluorescence under uv.

The true Aqua mutation in IRN, if it ever exists, should also show this homogeneous yellow, but it would be due to the production of a low amount of psittacin in the whole body (probably non fluorescent psittacin, since the presence of fluorescent psittacine is associated with higher amounts of psittacin production) and it would not be iridiscent under natural ligthing, since it would not act on feather structure.

After these considérations ... can you tell us if the bird appears as iridiscent under natural ligthing? Could you check for fluorescence under uv? ... have you uncovered the true Aqua in IRN?

Regards

Recio

Can't tell you. It's not my bird so i can't do these tests. But the breeder is aksing for the parents. From memory one parent was a dom. pied emerald. To make it clear: the bird is out of Babus avaries. So it is an emerald.

madas