IndianRingNeck.com

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Come on Deon,

Input data, please!!!

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Hi everybody, I said that the pics were not good enough to show, under normal lighting, the presence of the yellow colour (either pigmentary or structural) in the tail feathers of the Emerald Green Cleartail/Turquoise female. Now I have made some new pics with a black background and the yellow colou...

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firstly Mikes bird, are we certain it is an Emerald Green as I am under the impression that it was called an Emerald turquoise blue, having turquoise in the makeup of the bird can we truly see if it is green series or blue series Emerald. Hi Gratz, Mike's bird was called EmeraldTurquoise Cleartail ...

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Hi everybody, Some pics: Tools: from left to rigth 395nm torch, 365 nm torch & broad uv spectrum lamp http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag57/jrecio99/PC300816_zps6b0d910f.jpg Emerald Green main tail feather between two blue feathers (dorsal view, normal lighting): http://i1298.photobucket.com/...

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Hi Deon,

Your last pics seems to confirm that there is more "yellow" colour under uv on the ventral part of the tail feathers (specially in the proximal part) than in the dorsal part.

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Hi Deon, My observations of Emerald feathers were made in total darkness and with a black background. The colour I saw matches the one in your pic: green-yellow-yellowish and, as you say, without the warmer colour of the patched psittacin we can see in green, lutinos and parblues (mainly Turquoise)....

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Hi Deon,

No pic at all on my screen. Please, give more data

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Hi Paul, Maybe it is a language problem from me, but I am not yet sure to have correctly understood. Are you meaning that the australian Emeralds have arised in Australia and are not related at all to the indian Emeralds described by Babu? I have has some private communications saying that both are ...

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So as you can see the breeders records are not reliable so I can't go with what he tells me as I still can't get how he bred the Green male from DF Turquoise to the Blue Turquoise? Lushen Hi Luschen, A green bird from two blue series birds? If true, you have a precious bird split for two different ...

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Hi Luschen,

Which is the genetic make up of the parents?

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Hi Paul, I always had the idea that the Emerald mutation arised in India and was first described by Babu. But you wrote: The feathers from Mike are from the Australian mutation that was visually selected for it's phenotype by the late JS there was never any suggestion that this bird was related to I...

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The feathers from Mike are from the Australian mutation that was visually selected for it's phenotype by the late JS there was never any suggestion that this bird was related to Indian wild caught family this bird was also a darker hue as depicted in the earlier photo it was also regretfull that Ja...

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Hi everybody, @ Peter: I will post pics next week when my wife will take the camera back. @ Johan: 1. About fluorescence: the colour I see is quite close to the yellowish fluorescence of the patched psittacin in wild birds wing and head, but a bit greener. Mike has got similar results by using the s...

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Hi everybody, I have received Mike's feathers from his "Emerald Turquoise Cleartail" and "Emerald split Cleartail" females, and I have look at them under a broad spectrum uv ligth and under a LED torch emitting at 395 nm. The observations are the same for both birds in both pulle...

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Emerald = line breeded Indigo to eliminate the patchiness??? After the above comments may be we could reformulate Madas words as: Aqua = line breeded Indigo to eliminate the patchiness??? I agree with Chris that it is not possible to produce Emerald by line breeding Indigos (or even the very specul...

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Ring0Neck wrote:
I suggest & i believe i speak for most of us Willy to rejoin the forum.
We need to communicate with each other !!!! and yes lesson learnt for all i guess, lets move on pls

Ben

I am definitely for, even if Madas is a great translator.

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Further to the above, I have also been paying a lot more attention to blue birds in a couple of collections I've been visiting. It looks as if we have two different blue phenotypes this side of the ocean as well, similar to what Paul has been describing. I'll be studying these birds more closely, b...

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Hi,

Mind away

Previous post reedited for correction

Thanks

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I will make a similarity with melanin: SL-ino and NSL-ino could be the equivalent of Blue-1 and Blue-2 loci, each acting on different enzymes leading to the synthesis of melanin. We are able to make the difference easily because its different inheritance pattern, but if both genes were located in a...

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Madas, so which ones are the emerald tail feathers? Time to reveal the mystery. :D According to Willy the two left feathers are the emerald. Under UV they show a slight fluorescence but not as much as on the body compared to Deons pics. madas Hi Madas, In that pic we can not see either the yellow c...

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Hi Madas,

Could you tell Willy to take the pics under natural sun ligth? .... just to see how the apparent hue depends on ligth spectrum and iridescence.

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Hi Lee,

Best wishes for the new married and all your familly. May the new offspring to come make you a happy man (even more than now

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Best regards

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I always thought that the blue locus was an identical site on a pair of autosomal chromosomes that carried the genetic instructions for the production and distribution of yellow pigment. I never read it to mean the location of an individual gene that had changed in some way to alter the nature of a...

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Recio ... was it Terry or Deon who stated that if they are alleles from the same locus ,,, when mated together the parblue (allele) closest to the wildcolor will dominate over the partner allele (parblue)... will this hold true in all cases? Not, not at all. It depends, at least, on two factors: 1....

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Recio et al.. assuming the Emerald is a parble(ok Willie :o ) and that it has a close relationship with other parblues eg turq ,indigo etc.. Why are the feather irridiscense so unlike each other...viz adult emerald and adult turq feathers are noway near close ... ? Why does the underwing not bear a...

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I am still assuming that the b locus, as I understand it, is the site from where instructions for synthesis of yellow pigment are issued. Am I correct in assuming that loci b1, b2 etc are sites within the broad compass of the b locus where alleles have their effect? So, when you talk about a second...

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Hi, I guess that everybody has got the idea: each step concerning the pathway for the synthesis of any final product can be affected by a mutation blocking the production of the specific enzyme concerned at such step. That is: if there is a null mutation of the gene coding for the enzyme 1 we will g...

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Hi Mike, I will try to answer your questions step by step ... but I need your collaboration. Let's see a standard model of a very simple metabolic pathway adapted to the synthesis of any mollecule. Let's call yellow psittacin to such final mollecule. http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag57/jrecio99...

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Hi Johan,

That is what I was understanding from Mike's words. Maybe we understood different birds when speaking about the chick (suppossed split Emerald or his son showing Emerald)

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Hi Johan, I do not need any answer. I have catch it !!! The key is the change in velocity of the wave propagation. The apparent wavelength changes when there is a change in the refraction index, but velocity changes in the same degree, so that the frequency is not affected and neither the real wavel...

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Hi Mike, You are 100% rigth. One more thing: I was not aware that Aaron's "green split Emerald" was also Violet. This changes everything since we have some evidence that Violet could act on cortex structure, and thus mask the action of other mutations (Emerald) at this level. Regards Recio

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[The refraction index will not affect the wavelength/frequency, only the velocity of the wave propagation. Notice along the grey line in the image that the spacing (wavelength) between the blue wavefronts are the same in both mediums. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/Snells_law_wa...

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Hi everybody, Thank you Johan for your explanation about the independency of wavelength respective to the refractive index (I must think about it since my first perception is that the wavelength is affected). In this case we could conclude that the apparent change in fluorescence probably depends on...

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Hi all this is from a birdo's view which has been based on observation and although not scientific I believe has merit as myself and some other fanciers have been pondering over the possibility of a second blue at a time when this senerio was out of the question .First some history the blue irn in ...

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1) How do we 100% conclusively know for sure that emerald contains psittacin when not a single feather study has been done. :?: To my knowledge, an emerald feather has not even been placed under a microscope. 2) What do you think the above trickery will look like under a UV lamp? Why this question,...

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Hi Recio I will get feathers from my only 2 mature emerald hens, one EmeraldTurquoise and the other EmeraldBlue.They are both just finishing weaning chicks and starting to molt. I will pull feathers so that I am sure I have the correct ones but there will only be a couple from each as I don't like ...

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Blue-2: Wild-2, Emerald .... so that Emerald behaves incomplete dominant over Wild-2 Hm, hard to follow your argumentation. So why do you call it a second blue mutation if there isn't any allele on this second locus which is causing a blue phenotype for homozyguos expression? So for a true second b...

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Hi Paul,

This is what I also think and you have perfectly explained it.

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Hi everybody, I will try to develop a model of two blue loci located in the same chromossome trying to explain the different Blue, Parblue and Emerald combinations producing different phenotypes. Let's calculate the possible genetic combinations of two possible blue loci in the same chromossome. All...

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Hi Mike; So many questions .... Indigos are similar to Turquoise in psittacin distribution but with a lower amount/intensity of psittacins, and do not show the red ring (typical of Turquoise either heterozygous or homozygous) or just a very faint one in the homozygous birds. Thus Indigos also show p...

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Hi Mike, I think that you have perfectly analyzed the present situation and the reasons why I ask Cleartail to look for a patched Turquoise Emerald. Have you had a look at your birds under uv? I am always thinking about Willy's non fluorescent Emeralds and his anormally patched Emeralds, with fluore...

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So after reading that article. I am convinced the emerald grey I was offered must not be an emerald - too many blotches on the wings. Maybe and emerald turquoise grey though??? Yes, and probably it is a genetic Emerald TurquoiseBlue Grey Hopefully after next breeding season I can contribute more to...

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Hi Paul,

I can not acces the ABK Vol 21 Issue 3 June/July 2008. Is there a link in the web to read it?

Thanks

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Recio, just to make sure I follow correctly. If we are going with option 2 of a linked gene, are you also saying that a green emerald / turquoise and a green emerald / blue will look the same? Hi Johan, I think that you are grasping the main idea. In a classical system a green emerald / turquoise a...

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You've told us that birds we call turquoise-emerald are in fact green/ which no one here will agree with that statement, but you're saying the green/emerald of Aaron's although 2 breeders sees it as green is in fact emerald green Bit of a stretch on all counts. We have real data yet you're ignoring...

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Hi Madas, We have two hypothesis: 1. Emerald is a parblue mutation, that is Emerald is a mutation of the Blue locus like Indigo or Turquoise. 2. Emerald is an independent incomplete dominant mutation linked to the Blue locus, that is the Emerald locus and the Blue locus are in the same chromossome, ...

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Hi Ben Just got a call from Michael Laffey. His EmeraldTurquoise Cleartail hen to Violet Blue split cleartail cock apparently produced 3 EmeraldBlue Cleartail chicks and 3 Violet Turquoise Cleartail chicks.I congratulated him on six out of six cleartails from that pairing. Kind regards Mike 6/6 cle...

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Hi everybody; I will do very short: if Emerald was a parblue the only genetic possibilities would be BlueEmerald and ParblueEmerald (I will not consider the DF Emerald here, not yet). Two genetic combinations producing two distinc phenotypes. If I am not wrong we have far more than 2 phenotypes: Blu...

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While there are pseudo scientist types on this or any other forum who don't appreciate plain simple logic to anything put forward, who agree on the plan required to prove something, then when the results don't fit their fixed model, they hit you with the what ifs, the idiotic hypotheticals and are ...

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Your birds seem to be BlueBlue SF Emeralds and ParblueBlue SF Emeralds. Recio, same thing, how can a bird with psitticins be Blue? You are evading the obvious as I think you are smart enough not to overlook the obvious. I wonder however. I'll try again and this is the last time I will enter into an...

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