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Unfortunately, due to the very strong linkage between pallid and cinnamon, it will be hard to tell whether we are dealing with two distinct alleles of cinnamon, or rather the cinnamon-pallid crossover by looking at the hen offspring. They would need to be tested to have a conclusive answer. My sugg...

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Hi, Let's come back to the main subject evoqued by Traceyweller: are there two types of cinnamon ot just one fron the pics that have been posted? Possibilities: 1. Yes, there are two different types of cinnamon. For: different nails colour from the present post and old communications. Probably also ...

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Sorry i left one part "Means if a normal male is paired to a mutated female you will only get mutated males and non mutated females " So the expected results for a sex-linked mutation. Madas, I do not agree. I guess you have misread yourself because this is a matter you perfectly know. Yo...

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And you are 100% sure that both types inherit sex-linked recessive? Means if a normal male is paired to a mutated female you will only get mutated males? The most common pairing used by bird hobbyists for sex-linked mutations is male /sexlinked mutation x sexlinked mutation female . But this pairin...

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Hi Johan, ... PS (post edited): I have just had a closer look at the Cinnamon SL-Ino Violet green bird. You are rigth Johan: there is not a lacewing pattern with more melanin on the outer part of the feathers, but rather the opposite: a bit less melanin in the outer part of the feathers producing a...

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Hi Recio, as always, a very welcome experience engaging with you (why are you so scarce these days?). You have some trouble with cinnamon-pallid, so let me try to address some of your points and maybe I can put your mind to ease. :D 1. These birds all have light nails on my computer. Nothing darker...

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Hi Johan, I have some troubles with the cinnamon pallid cross-overs: 1. Cinnamon nails colour and pallid nails colour are similar (ligth) ... how could this combo produce dark nails? 2. Cinnamon beak is red (sometimes the lower bill is a little brownish) and pallid beak is also red ... how could thi...

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Hi, I have changed to a better screen and I can clearly see that the last bird with the grey nails also shows a darker bill than the first bird with the lighther nails. Has anybody paired both cinnamon types together? Is there a different amount in brown melanin? Traceyweller, could you please take ...

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Hi, It has been described cinnamon birds with ligth nails and others with grey nails, as in your pics. Are those different types of cinnamon? does it depend on minor genes? on strain specificities? IMO probably they are different alleles of cinnamon, but I do not know if somebody has made the study ...

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... following the idea of Opaline IRN as the same or as a different mutation than Opaline in other parrots: How could we know if Opaline is the same mutation? If there was a parrot able to hybridaze with IRN and showing the typical effects of Opaline in psittacofulvines we could try to get a hybrid ...

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Why? I think the opaline does not have the right color palett/playground to do its magic, or it won't allow it. hopefully pieds+ parblues? could provide such environment for Opaline to do its magical play of colors. Hi Ben, yes, unfortunately IRN breeders are going to miss out on the real magic, wh...

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adding another Parblue to emerald is going to make the bird greener not yellower. But only in regions of the body which haven't lost the melanins. :D So take the cleartail mutation in combination with parblue. The higher the "green" level the yellower the melanin free regions like belly o...

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madas wrote:Hm, don't know if there is an original? The pics of the feather structure look excatly like the one in the book of Terry Martin. So probably some of the notes are taken from it too. I don't know but i can ask if you want.

Please, I think we all really want

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Hi Madas, Pity German is a so complicated language!!! The information in this web site is very important and I guess it comes from an international publication, very probably itself written in English. Could we acces the original report? There are somethings which are not clear to me. They say that ...

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Hi, I go with Lee about Cinnamon: it does not look Cinnamon to me in either the feet or the beak. And I also go with Madas thinking that another structural mutation is at work. Which one? He did not through any cobalt or violet offspring, so I always bet for a head ligthining mutation. We need inbre...

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Hmm.. My personal experience and studying of Greys is limited since I haven't owned any before this year. I have heard others who say their normal Greys can have a blue through their heads at certain angles and lights- similar to what I have heard for some Dark Blue Greys. -to me he (his head) only...

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creative thought 8) Opaline to be part of the gen-makeup as well & we could possibly have here "the creation of Pallid" a triple x-over + allelicism in play equals; birth of a mutation :? Hi Ben, I certainly like your creative thought, but we should first analyse how does every double...

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Very interesting disc. So here are the males: Misty SL Edged IndigoBlue Grey /Cinnamon /Lutino ... was this male paired to a green series hen? wondering if the opaline grey-green we see in below pic might be from the same parents? http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/img89021uft9y3dzp.jpg ... is...

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Hi Madas, It seems that both males are brothers ... Do you know in each one which sex linked mutations are linked? Possibilities: 1. Lutino and cinnamon linked. 2. Lutino and SL edge linked. 3. Cinnamon and SL edge linked. 4. Lutino, cinnamon and SL edge linked, all of them together in the same chro...

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Hi everybody, Is maternal behaviour genetic or acquired? Do good mothers pass their behaviour to her daugthers within the genetic material or this is something learned by the chicks from their mother's behaviour? This question can be easily answered by those with a long experience in fostering birds...

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Hi Melissa,

Excellent idea to pair the female up to a Blue.
Do you remmeber if this female dysplayed already at fledging the same base colour ... or did it appear later progressively?

Regards

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Hi Melissa, I do not own any Emerald bird and pics are often too different depending on lighting conditions. I would like to hear comments from breeders of Emerald on your female phenotype ... because if this girl is really an Emerald Turquoise all of her offspring must be Emerald or Turquoise and n...

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@ Madas ... the father is split Opaline

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@ Jim: Opaline and Cinnamon, which are sex linked mutations are at work. It would be very valuable to know the sex of the bird.

Regards

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Hi Skyes_crew,

Could you confirm mother's phenotype? To me she looks like an Emerald TurquoiseBlue (or EmeraldTurquoise if you prefere). Emerald ... is evident. Turquoise because of her greener head and wing patches.

Regards

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Hi Benjamin, In other species males split for Opaline can be detected . Ex: roseicollis : http://www.tailfeathersnetwork.com/community/showthread.php/75080-trick-to-recognize-a-split-opaline-roseicollis We usually say that an allele is recessive or dominant or ... but this is not correct. The genes ...

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It seems that the "width" of the refringent feather pattern is lower when structural mutations are present but there is only one example of Green Opaline to compare. Could you confirm? Hi Recio, well spotted. :D But it's only true for males as i noticed in my aviaries. :( The opaline viol...

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Hi everybody, Johan is rigth: Dominance is not inherent to an allele. It is a relationship between alleles; one allele can be dominant over a second allele, recessive to a third allele, and codominant to a fourth. For further and easy reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominance_(genetics) .... ...

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Hi Madas, Congratulations for the pics. It would be great if you could add in the same pic some feathers from Blue Opaline. Are all those feathers from SF Opaline birds (hemizygous females)? Any difference respective to DF Opalines (homozygous males)?. It seems that the "width" of the refr...

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William Stobart reminded me of the image below, taken 2 years ago, of the same hen on the introductory image on the left, together with her sister and thus from the same gene-pool mix. There is a clear colour difference, with the one on the right darker, more matt, lacking the gloss of the one left...

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Hi Lee, The consensual definition of the inheritance pattern is made respective to the wild type. Thus Turquoise is a recessive mutation since an heterozygous WildTurquoise displays a wild pattern colour. Nevertheless, in our aviaries we are vanishing the psittacin pigment as we mostly try to work o...

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Hi Sherjil, 1) As the bird is visual cinnamon & it is kept in an outdoor aviary, is it possible that the dilution on the flights may be due to exposure to the sun ? If so then why this dilution is showing a specific pattern rather than giving a bleached effect of the exposed flight feather area ...

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Hi Sherjil, How old is the father? I can not see any ring, despite that any parblue male, either Indigo or Turquoise, in either heterozygous or homozygous birds, should show at least the black ring, excepting if it has not reached sexual maturity (of course just speaking from a phenotypic point of v...

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Hi Sherjil, Let's analyse one pigment each time: 1. For psittacins : both parents are, as you say, heterozygous ParblueBlue since they have been able to produce an albino bird (current clutch mates). Which is the parblue present in the parents? On my monitor it seems that the amount of psittacin pre...

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I would say sfViolet TurquoiseBlue SL Edged I agree with Sheyd, but the parblue component does not look like the typical patched parblues (Turquoise or Indigo) since the wing patch is not present, and the distribution of psittacins in the body is not homogeneous but patched. Could this be an effect...

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Hi, This law has been applyed in Spain from 2-3 years ago and now breeders can not trade their birds and can not import new mutations. As a result most of them have moved to the breeding of other species and it has become almost impossible to find IRN in Spain. Hope you will be able to stop this pro...

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Hi, On a different screen I can see that the primary flying feathers are not brown but rather grey pointing to pallid instead of cinnamon, but then ... what about the eyes? Does anyone know how a combo NSL-ino Cinnamon looks like? Similar to SL-Ino Cinnamon (light green-yellow) or just like a lutino...

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Hi, At first view this bird looks like a ligth creamino (ligth TurquoiseBlue SL-Ino) but ... 1. The primary flying feathers are not white but brownish ... so another mutation is present, may be Cinnamon. 2. The eyes show pinball pupiles, despite that the bird is not exposed to a high intensity ligth...

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Hi Sherjil, A parblue mutation is a mutation partially removing psittacins. The DYC is partially removing cheek psittacins so that red psittacins can not be further produced and there are only yellow psittacins (data points to the production of red psittacins from yellow psittacins). From your post ...

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Hi Sherjil,

I know nothing about cockatiels but a change of the cheek patch from orange-red to yellow inheriting as co-dominant points to a parblue mutation.

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Hi Molossus The green chick is not anything to do with clutch. It is in the photo only to show the clear difference between the yellow tones in Green, TurquoiseEmerald, and EmeraldBlue cleartails. As you can see they are quite obviously different. I use that difference to prove to myself that none ...

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Hi my guess is blue 2 on right and blue 1 one left this observation was first commented by Babu some years ago where he pointed to b1 as being the normal expression until the parblue mutations started producing the b2 he also pointed to both phenotype were difficult to pick when seperated this brin...

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Hi,

All my male birds got his neckring at 2 years old in France, excepting the Clearhead fallow, which is known to mature later (3 years).

Regards

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Hi Chris,

It seems to me that there is some yellow colour on her primary wing and tail flying feathers. Could you confirm? It it was the case she should not be classed as turquoise

Did you look at her under uv?

Regards

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The DF Emerold is now getting a neckring at 3yrs old So Recio your theory of emerald being a structual mutation is swiming away. :( Have you ever ask Chris Whipps regarding the age of the DF emerald? If not how can you base your theory of DF emeralds males don't get a neckring on cock of unknown ag...

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Hi Madas & Ben; Thank you for the correction. I misunderstood that a Violet Blue was also bred from that bird. Anyway if you analyse the possibilities with the non parblue model, you will find that the results are also explained considering that the male could be Green Violet heterozygous Blue h...

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Johan, My pleasure! Hi Recio, I can see a red ring in the last pic, download the pic and zoom in but not too much due to low res. When i meet up with Aaron i'll take pics of high res. that will allow us to zoom in without distortion to the pic. If i agree with the 2 points? not really Sounds like w...

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Hi everybody, Back from a long week-end and I have just found some very interesting ideas/pics. 1. Do Turquoise and Emerald interaction induce a diferent phenotype than the simple addition of both phenotypes? That is an Emerald TurquoiseBlue (or an EmeraldBlue if you prefere till we get the rigth cu...

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Hi Deon, Nice birds. I guess the offspring in the pic are all females, and the brother is not there. I also guess that you have posted it waiting for coments without inducing any idea with your thoughts ... so here I go: Opaline is known to increase the expression of psittacins, so if there were in...

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Father a TurqBlue Opaline on the left, the mother Emerald Blue or Emerald on the far right 2013-11-09 18.33.14-1.jpg Hi Deon, Nice birds. I guess the offspring in the pic are all females, and the brother is not there. I also guess that you have posted it waiting for coments without inducing any ide...

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Let's not forget that Mike's hen is merely 1 year old bird, certainly not mature. You used to be very strong on not using young Parblues to compare/judge their phenotype Hi Ringo, A 1 year old breeding female is "mature enough for breeding", but you are rigth: the final colour is only ach...

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