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Carr.birds

Ben

I agree with you, it is edged but I would go for cinnamon edged (SL Edged-cinnamon).

Peter your bird doesn't look so healthy, but are you sure it isn't a greygreen SL Edged although cinnamon in combination with violet, dark and edged can give this mustard colour effect.

Tienie

Carr.birds

Ben

Thank you. Based on the pics I agree there isn't a real difference. This was 4 years ago. I will revisit JB and get new pics. The hen has matured and maybe a pic of the 2012 babies will assist us.

Tienie

Carr.birds

Willy, Ben, Stefan & Johan The attached pic is of an European dblue, blue and below SA dblue. The European dark bird was bred from SL Edged blue & imported violet ?dark indigoblue hen (darkest purple I have seen) and the other are local birds. In the pic the 2 dark birds look similar. We pai...

Carr.birds

Willy Sorry my mistake, yes co-dominant to blue and indigo. Will allele’s of the same locus always be co-dominant towards each other or can one be dominant over the other? Did anyone do fluorescence comparisons on green vs green/turq? My link at work is very bad, therefore I will rather wait till th...

Carr.birds

Willy Based on the evidence you supplied I can't see how anyone can argue against it. From what we can see there is a visual difference between sf and df birds and therefore it must be a co-dominant (incomplete) mutation like dark. The hen I posted is a matured bird but I had to take the shadows awa...

Carr.birds

Stefan I accept your explanation. I also own Fisher lovebirds and the sf violet blue fisher is the same situation as your mask. Only purple when dark blue is added. For the first time today I held both sf and df violet blue IRN in my hand and with the naked eye there is a major difference in intensi...

Carr.birds

Johan

df indigo bronze fallow

Tienie

Carr.birds

Willy

This is a proven df turq hen. If I understand you correctly you are claiming that the df turq is visually evident when compare to a blueturq?

Tienie

Carr.birds

Stefan & Johan The pic as promised. L to R American (violet dark indigoblue, df violet blue & sf violet blue) and bottom European sf violet indigoblue http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y403/carrbirds/CarrBirds8May2013048_zpsc5325610.jpg Years ago I met a Budgie breeders Neels Roeloffze who...

Carr.birds

Stefan & Willy Stefan thanks for the compliment. My violet indigoblue/ct cock is 5 years old now and bred from his 2nd year. Paired to a dblue cleartail he produced dark & violet phenotype babies but when paired to a blue hen (last 2 years) not a single violet phenotype were present. A know ...

Carr.birds

Stefan & Willy This is a violet indigoblue/cleartail from an imported European line. Please compare this with Stefan's German violet indigoblue and tell me if you think this is the same phenotype. http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y403/carrbirds/CarrBirds1Mar2013065_zpsa1929f89.jpg Regards Tie...

Carr.birds

Willy

I like the indigoblue deep dark cock on Ron’s site. I have mentioned before that I believe this is the same phenotype breeders in Europe sell as violet blueturq. I own European “violet blueturq” birds and from these birds different “dark” phenotypes are produced.

Tienie

Carr.birds

L M A

NSLino = Non Sex-Linked Lutino or a Recessive Lutino

Tienie

Carr.birds

Farzz1

It is obvious that females of SL Edged and SL Edged combinations will be lighter in phenotype. The SL Edged adm pied must still be sexed but I give you my word it will be a female. DF SL Edged cocks are the same phenotype as females (keep in mind females can only be sf)

Tienie

Carr.birds

L M A
I have found that in some cases females also display a lighter head but not as full diluted head as cocks and most of my females displaying lighter heads are proven Cleartail/NSLino. I suggest you have them sexed.

Tienie

Carr.birds

Peter

Sorry, this is the pic

Tienie

Carr.birds

Hi Ben

Thanks for informing me and your advice. I notice the picture is gone, but will reload it this afternoon.

Johan it isn't a cobalt but can be the addition of the SL Edged mutation.

Tienie

Carr.birds

Peter

This is a young 2012 SL Edged adm pied hen from my red pied line. Can you use your filters to detect any red?

Tienie

Carr.birds

Farzz1

SL Edged adm pied blueturq after 15 month moult

Tienie

Carr.birds

Stefan and Ben Stefan your youngster cobalt violet cleartail? display a white head and tail at a very young age. This is one of the markers I use to detect cleartail birds that split for NSLino. Ben I understand your opinion but the matured cock of Willy may also be split NSLino. The fact that a spl...

Carr.birds

Stefan I will check tomorrow but I have one more picture of a proven dblue cleartail/nslino cock and he also display a red eye. Interesting observation/question you have. We need more evidence but it can be an indication of split NSLino http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y403/carrbirds/Nicole051_zp...

Carr.birds

Stefan This is a 2002 proven blue cleartail/nslino hen. Notice the red eye. Only visible when picture taken with flash. http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y403/carrbirds/bluecleartailsplitnslino_zpsa1aabdae.jpg I don't own a lot of cleartails but from what I have seen during nest inspection is that...

Carr.birds

Kev SL Edged dgreen cleartail/blue (black eye) cock. Not a well marked edged but he will be ready for breeding in 2013. I think in hens and df cocks the edged pattern will be better visible. http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y403/carrbirds/SL%20Edged/CarrBirds21Feb2013005_zps6e12d2ce.jpg SL Edged ...

Carr.birds

Stefan, Lee, Johan and Willy

Can someone please post a picture of a turqblue spangle opaline budgie.

Tienie

Carr.birds

Willy

This is a proven greygreen violet/blue cock. Notice the absence of the violet (purple) centre tail feathers

Tienie

Carr.birds

Stefan This is a total different line and not related to the dark platinum/turq cock posted. This is the first breeding season with both lines. Unfortunately the pair only produced 1 baby. I don’t know the history of the cock’s mother and therefore more breeding results is necessary next season. The...

Carr.birds

Stefan This cock was bred from a ddblue pallid cock and blue "platinum" hen Cock http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y403/carrbirds/CarrBirds20Feb2013008_zpsdd46c456.jpg His mother http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y403/carrbirds/CarrBirds7Feb2012031_zps529a3637.jpg I have tested the mot...

Carr.birds

Chocobo, Peter and Stefan sf violet blue (American line, bred from df violet blue hen) http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y403/carrbirds/CarrBirds1Mar2013105_zps75144365.jpg df violet blue (American imported cock -owner Hugo Niebuhr) http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y403/carrbirds/dfvioletblue_z...

Carr.birds

Peter

You will never be able to export birds to Australia, but will be able to import from them when the ban is lifted and only from some regions in Australia.

Tienie

Carr.birds

Peter

That is exactly why I suggested we work with the original imported birds or ‘SA deep’ birds bred from 2002 to 2005. No one of us owning ‘SA deep’ birds older than 2005 know if dark or violet was added.

Tienie

Carr.birds

Chocobo This is 100% correct. Pastel is an allele of the a-locus with about 50% reduction in melanin, recessive inheritance, a form of albinism and therefore sometimes affect the feet and nails, but it has a normal eye colour. We (Johan, Stefan, Recio and I) discussed Nsl ino, pastel and bronze fall...

Carr.birds

Willy, thanks. I will contact you by private email to disuss the way forward or we can discuss it in the redmine projects.

Tienie

Carr.birds

Willy I agree that the df must be produced without delay, but what do we call (name) these bird until then. Johan’s idea to give it a different name could solve the problem, but I understand we should wait for the df bird. We are waiting for pictures from another local breeder who claims that he pro...

Carr.birds

Peter The problem we are sitting with is that if you view Nico’s breeding list you can see that at some stage in 2005/6/7 he introduced dark and violet into his collection. The 2 original imported hens are 2000 birds. Let’s assume he was lucky and in 2002 produced his first SA born SA Deep birds. Th...

Carr.birds

Johan, Peter and Forum

I think I know who bought the so called df birds. It should not be difficult to get some pictures. Before we continue I want to know from Peter if he is a 100% sure that the matured green hen is a df and not a dark SA “deep green” ?

Tienie

Carr.birds

Willy If you read Peter's argument you will notice he is trying to explain by using his filters that the df (homozygous) "SA Deep" already exist. Correct me if I am wrong but for me homozygous mean the df bird in dominant mutations and visual full colour in recessive mutation like cleartai...

Carr.birds

Chocobo

Thanks for the compliment. It is an absolute pleasure, IRN mutation breeding is my passion. Breeding, observing, learning and sharing knowledge with other passionate breeders and knowledgeable people is the best reward you can get.

Tienie

Carr.birds

Johan

Thanks, but only because you assited with the lessons. My phone call to you is a lot cheaper compared to other experts

Tienie

Carr.birds

SL Edged dgreen

Tienie

Carr.birds

SL Edged (dark cinnamon, SA deep blue & dblue)

Tienie

Carr.birds

SL Edged-cinnamon cobalt

Tienie

Carr.birds

pic of green, dgreen, American violet green and SA deep green.

Tienie

Carr.birds

Pics of green, dgreen, SA deep green and violet green.

Tienie

Carr.birds

Edged-cinnamon doesn't show the tipical ruby eye colour of cinnamon.

Tienie

Carr.birds

Lee Thanks we will communicate and decide on the way forward after consultation with my friends Recio, Stefan and Deon. I think the fact that the original imported European "Deep" green hen is in our possession will be helpful. Every breeder wants to make money but for me it is more import...

Carr.birds

Johan I agree with your statement. There isn’t any difference between Peter’s pics and the birds we own as sf SA “Deep”, but we might be missing trick and only recognize df birds and sf are mistaken as normal birds. I have some split fallow birds from Nico Theunissen’s collection that clearly displa...

Carr.birds

Hi

Visual evidence are found mainly in the tail and flights. Pallid, Pallidino and Pallidplatinum display traces of melanin in the abovementioned areas while Platinum don't.

Tienie

Carr.birds

Johan

You are correct, it is a blue dilute opaline

Tienie

Carr.birds

I have more than enough SL Edged IRN’s. 3 DF cocks and plenty of sf cock and hens. Combinations with dilute, adm pied, cleartail, clearheaded fallow, cinnamon and opaline already exist. Any suggestions for other combinations are welcome. Let us stick to SL combinations to help determine where it is ...

Carr.birds

Platinum birds are born very close to lutino in phenotype and as they go through each moult they darken a little bit. The Platinum cock posted is a Dark Platinum/turq. When paired to a Dblue in 2012 they produced 2 cocks, 1,0 DDblueturq/platinum and a Dgreen/platinum/blue. I do however own a bird th...

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