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Carr.birds

Farzz1

This buttercup pied cock of Hugo is a 2010 bird fyi. Don't count your .......................before...............

Tienie

Carr.birds

Mad Max

According to my knowledge ino will mask pied completely. I have seen a lutino Roseicollis that produced pied (dom pied) offspring but his phenotype was the same as a normal lutino.

Tienie

Carr.birds

Gratz, Shey, Ben, Stefan and Johan Stefan I agree this dark eye colour is found in cleartail mutations. Page 555 in Bastiaan's book you will find a comparison between sf grey turq cleartail hens but what he didn't mention is the difference in the eye colour. Hen on left has a dark eye. Gratz I think...

Carr.birds

Ben & Johan My apology for not joining in. Johan I agree with your statement if non edged cock are produced the mother can't be edged or the cocks you id as non edged are not well marked. From the pic (not so clear) I would say she isn't edged but cinnamon grey turq (indigo) I have seen some bad...

Carr.birds

Kees I doubt if any breeder will be able to post a pic of an opaline chf or opaline bronze fallow. A friend of mine (Hugo Niebuhr) should be able to produce opaline chf (buttercup) this season. He also produced the first adm pied chf in SA. http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y403/carrbirds/DSC00285...

Carr.birds

Johan & Shey

I own 3 df sl edged cocks, blue, greygreen and dblue, but unfortunately nothing in green. Pics will follow tomorrow

Tienie

Carr.birds

Gratz, Ben and Recio Gratz for me there isn't any difference between the bird you posted and saddleback, but I am not the expert in saddlebacks. I will only be working with them from this season. My initial thoughts was harlequin + parblue (in 2011), but maybe some other mutation is also involved. C...

Carr.birds

Ben

From what I was told saddleback exist in both sexes but cocks are rare. Attached a young violet saddleback cock from Chris.

Tienie

Carr.birds

Ben, Gratz, Recio and Johan Ben sorry for the confusion, I will keep the pair as mentioned. Unfortunately she is possible split blue or turq. I was working in the red pied line and believe you must keep in the green series. Recio I do think that some recessive mutations in heterozygous form in combi...

Carr.birds

Gratz, Ben, Recio, Willy, Stefan and other members I am very fortunate that Chris was willing to help me with a df dom pied blue cock. Attached see pic http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y403/carrbirds/DSC_0011-001_zpsc3101ef8.jpg The idea was to pair him to my sl edged adm pied hen from my red pie...

Carr.birds

Shey I am sure I will be able to assist you, but please be patient it is almost breeding season and I only have time on weekends to take comparison pics for you. Send me your email address for current pics in my archive. To upload pic through photo bucket is time consuming. proven sl edged-cinnamon ...

Carr.birds

Ben & Stefan I agree with you it is an ef (sf) sl edged violet????? (very dark bird) and I support your theory of sl edged involved +++ could be responsible for the incredible beautiful phenotype of saddle back. AS mentioned hens will have a lighter phenotype. Attached a pic of my dblue harlequi...

Carr.birds

Lee

It is early, it must be the herbal tee and seed you are giving them. Breeders in the North (Pretoria) have hens on eggs, but it is to cold for Bloemfontein. From the 10th of July my hens normally start laying eggs.

Tienie

Carr.birds

Peter

I don't understand your email. Are you claiming that the lighter bird is an opaline adm pied?

Tienie

Carr.birds

Glenn This is a matured 5yr old adm pied cock, but keep in mind not all of the Hillerman (SA adm pied line) display as much pied as this cock when matured. It is a pure Hillerman bred by Lothar Hillerman and Hugo Niebuhr. http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y403/carrbirds/Carrbirds29May2013021_zpsd3...

Carr.birds

Stefan I agree with you. Must admit it is a beautiful sf sl edged cock but can't see any deep colour which is normally noticeable in the center tail feathers and flights See pic of dark blueturq sf sl edged cock http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y403/carrbirds/SLEdgeddblueturq_zpsb6dd61d6.jpg Tienie

Carr.birds

Johan You can't compare the phenotype of pallid vs pallidino in IRN's with Roseicollis. To my surprise there isn't a big difference between pallid and pallidino in Roseicollis. The same for Splendid parakeets. A pallid Roseicollis's eye is dark red as mentioned by you but darkens very quickly within...

Carr.birds

Camarge You must compare pallid opaline birds and not this bird with a pallid. IMO the other mutation that can be involved is edged dilute, but it look different to what my pallid edged dilute opaline's looked like. Unfortunately I sold all my Roseicollis and only kept the Fishers, therefore I can't...

Carr.birds

IMO it is an orange face pallid opaline

Is it a hen ? and from what combination bred?

Tienie

Carr.birds

Lee I don't know. It is a proven fact that cleartail isn't an allele of the a-locus. A lot of cleartails are split for nslino. What amazes me is the combination between cleartail and opaline. The front part is much more diluted than expected. I am curious to see a proper cleartail adm pied. I would ...

Carr.birds

Peter Nice work by you and Recio. Recio and I discussed my red pied line in detail a year ago with options and advice on how the red bird can be produce without them losing the red at 3 or 15 months moult. I have set up several pairs for this season including combinations with opaline and pied from ...

Carr.birds

Ben Thanks for your opinion. The discussion between us about harlequin being a spangle took place before any of the pics of John were available. I understand your point and we must take into account that cleartail according to my knowledge is unique to the IRN. DEC and BEC We must be careful with th...

Carr.birds

Ben & Farzz Stefan, Recio, Deon and I discussed the possibility that the harlequin (dom pied) can be a spangle mutation after we received the first pic of a bird Chris bought as clearwing cleartail about 18 months ago. The opinion was bases on the fact that the df harlequin is almost a clear bir...

Carr.birds

Willy As mentioned before I bought the original imported "European" dgreen/turq hen. My other 'SA deep' birds are from Nico's stock but my 2 cocks are 'SA deep' blue sl edged and 'SA deep blue' dilute. I have another hen 'SA deep' green/blue/dilute. If breeders in SA leave if to me for pro...

Carr.birds

Hi John Sorry for not joining in the discussions after my initial remarks. (Visited a friend on a farm - hunting) I realize opaline is scares but it will be nice if you can test the blue dom pied (spangle) hen with an opaline or at least a split opaline cock. We all know that if any opaline cocks ar...

Carr.birds

Ben

Without seeing or knowing the genetic make up of the parents I would say 2 possibilities are opaline or sl edged in combination with harlequin (dom pied)

Tienie

Carr.birds

Stefan dom pied = sf only. Unlucky in 2012 when paired to the df violet blue only 2,0 violet dblue and 0,1 violet blue. Not a single dom pied. the green sl edged cock is /pied/turq/cinn? = didn't breed any cinnamon hens in 12 babies but those yellow sl edged adm pieds and I suspect are sl edged-cinn...

Carr.birds

Stefan

100% as spotted. I originally paired them in 2012 but then decided to pair her with the df violet blue cock, but it is eating me up if I think what the combination will look like.

BTW I think SL Edged is the correct name

Tienie

Carr.birds

Ben

Nice bird. Peter if you hve seen a cleartail adm pied get us a pic and post it please

Tienie

Carr.birds

Willy

Your opinion about the df SL Edged greygreen will change when you see a sf SL Edged greygreen. It is very close to a normal greygreen in phenotype. Will post pics this afternoon

Tienie

Carr.birds

Willy & Ben SL Edged can only be judged when matured (4 to 5 years) Willy if you look at the comparison pic of an indigo bronze fallow and indigo SL Edged you can understand why breeders in the 90's named it fallow. http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y403/carrbirds/dfturqbronzefallowlinksenturq...

Carr.birds

Ben. Madas & Johan Ben I can live with Stefan's statement about the colour of their feet Father http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y403/carrbirds/CarrBirds20Feb2013052_zps0bfd010d.jpg Daughter http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y403/carrbirds/SLEdged-cinnamonvioletblue_zpsba21c40c.jpg The abov...

Carr.birds

Stefan Light contrast between my pic and yours. I will search my folders for other pics and post it. Dblue SL Edged-cinnamon http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y403/carrbirds/CarrBirds20Feb2013052_zps0bfd010d.jpg Violet blue buttercup & 'SA deep' blue SL Edged http://i1273.photobucket.com/album...

Carr.birds

Willy

Thanks, the first comparison pic help a lot. I must admit it is a very bright blue bird.
I have decided not to take part in any other deep conversations until I have my own evidence about the 'SA Deep' mutation. Hopefully a successful 2013 breeding season will deliver the goods.

Tienie

Carr.birds

Stefan

Yes, both of them are proven sf SL Edged

1,0 Dblue sf SL Edged/chf and 1,0 Dblue sf SL Edged-cinnamon

Both are 7 years old matured breeding cocks

Tienie

Carr.birds

Johan I think it is worth trying. Both birds are from the NT collection and both are split fallow. I have nothing to lose. I think 7 pairs heterozygous & homozygous (bronze or dun or pale) fallow is more than enough. The combination of blue opaline & 'SA Deep' green/turq (imported European d...

Carr.birds

Willy pics of matured hen. http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y403/carrbirds/Carrbirds13May2013015_zps55930b89.jpg http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y403/carrbirds/Carrbirds13May2013013_zps52242604.jpg tail feathers of the hen http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y403/carrbirds/Carrbirds13May20130...

Carr.birds

Willy Thanks a million for the images and opportunity to learn from you. I am pretty sure most of us wouldn't have recognized this as a mutation. I own blue brighter looking birds that split for fallow that can be paired for this season for experiments. Lets wait and see if they produce a df or homo...

Carr.birds

Willy I totally agree with you about the maturity. We have a lot of Indigo birds in SA, breeders just didn't know it is a separate allele of the blue locus and how to identify them. Most SA breeders will pair a "turq" looking bird with a blue partner and therefore I haven't seen a df indig...

Carr.birds

Ben

Great, I only own 2 harlequins and have so many plans that the combo with SL Edged must wait until 2014. I hope your pair produce this year, I am curious to see what the combo will bring to the table.

Tienie

Carr.birds

Shey Sorry I gave both my SL Edged-cinnamon cock and hen to an elderly breeder who owned "fallow" birds years ago but lost the line. He was so happy and till today it is evident when I saw him. Your observation of the feet is an indication of cinnamon and if you look at the flights you wil...

Carr.birds

Peter Difficult in hens but easier in sf cock. Attached please find a comparison pic of sf SL Edged dblue & sf SL Edged-cinnamon dblue. http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y403/carrbirds/CarrBirds12May2013014_zps23f70779.jpg http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y403/carrbirds/CarrBirds12May201301...

Carr.birds

Peter

A proven SL Edged-cinnamon hen

Tienie

Carr.birds

Peter & Stefan SL Edged dark cinnamon, SA deep blue SL Edged, & dblue SL Edged http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y403/carrbirds/CarrBirds20Feb2013018_zps424e9fea.jpg dblue SL Edged-cinnamon http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y403/carrbirds/CarrBirds20Feb2013052_zps0bfd010d.jpg violet blue...

Carr.birds

Peter

You are welcome, I don't know why you didn't used your last pics for your first post.

You said definitely violet. What happened to the dark factor. If you own the parents post a pic of them.

Tienie

Carr.birds

Stefan

It will be my pleasure if you can wait for 18 hour till tomorrow afternoon.

Tienie

Carr.birds

Peter From the tail in the pic it is clear it isn't greygreen, but the bird isn't dark enough to be violet dark cinnamon. Pic of SL Edged dgreen http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y403/carrbirds/CarrBirds1Mar2013122_zps0fabeb9e.jpg I bred a SL Edged violet, violet blue and "SA deep" dblue...

Carr.birds

Ben

I can only post a pic of a greygreen nsl-ino edged if it will assist

Tienie

Carr.birds

Ben & Johan Ben thanks for posting the pictures. Johan It is possible if you take into account that the NT blue (SA Deep) was imported from Europe as dark. But then there must be 2 different dark mutations in Europe unless the "SA deep" is a second violet mutation as mentioned by you. ...

Carr.birds

Shey, Johan & Ben

Based on the last pic I am also thinking of Misty SL Edged-Cinnamon. Nice dark head, will be nice in combination with.........?

Tienie

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