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Hi Kappa,

It could be a very well marked Turquoise-SL-Ino. Did the parents produce any parblue offspring previously?

Regards

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Ring0Neck wrote:He is a TurquoiseBlue Pallid (old name would be PastelBlue Lacewing)

... also named as "rainbow"

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Hi Paul, My answer in the FB fórum was related to the violet subject. Like Ringo I could not see the Indigo post. Heterozygous birds are those carrying two different alleles of the same gene: posible heterozygotes for Indigo from less to more psittacin: IndigoBlue SaphireIndigo (still to be fully id...

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But keep in mind that mostly (98%) the dominant mutations are changing the structur and the recessive mutations are responsible for changing chemical or hormonal processes. So it is very unsual that CT is a structure altering mutation even if it is classified as fallow mutation. :( But there are st...

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... the Indigo expressed in visual CHCT was reduced and in some cases vanish at first moult. The Indigo splits CHCT would seem to have their Indigo expression enhanced there were also a couple of birds that were normal (not visual for CHCT or Indigo) (11 chicks total). Hi Paul, Your results also po...

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Hi Madas and Paul, Let's go for the meaning of morphotypes. A morphotype is a phenotype that can be achieved through different mutations either of the same gene (different alleles) or of different genes. Ex: for different genes: a yellow bird is a morphotype than a can be achieved through SL-Ino, NS...

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Recio I have always understood the turquoise to be a different form of blue for want of a better description,,and not a combination of blue an other. Therefore blue is not needed for turq to express itself in sf ie..heterozygotically...Hence a green/turq to like paired produces this hetero turquois...

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Hi Johan, Deon owns a "multirevolving" uv ligth with several different wavelengths to study birds fluorescence and he has shown us several high quality pics in the past. I am sure he has already look at his Turquoise Emerald combos under uv. Maybe he could contribute with his observations....

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Hi Mike, I wrote: " We should think in terms of two alleles expression, which is the norm, and the final phenotype as the result of the expression of both alleles and their possible interactions at the effector level (Ex Turquoise Emerald combo ). An allele will likely produce the same protein ...

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Hi everybody, I have noticed that there are a lot of wrong ideas in basic concepts as what a dominant or a recessif mutation are. Ex: when people says that Green is dominant respective to Blue they think that somehow Green does not allow Blue to be expressed, or that Green "down regulates"...

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Hi Mike, What a "blue locus" means? It is a place in a chromossome holding a gene which acts on the metabolic pathway leading to the expression of psittacins (disrupting the production, the transport or the transfert of the pigment into the Feather). Whenever any of the steps is stop, we w...

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Mikesringnecks wrote:Hi Recio
One very simple question, is madas Stefan (Ma Das) or Lee or someone else?
Kind regards
Mike

Hi Mike,

Stefan Adams = Madas = Ma Das = naugthy german boy who should be punished when he hides his real understanding and makes questions already knowing the answers

Regards

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Hi Madas, This si a theoretic frame to generally explain an apparent recessive behaviour of a parblue respective to Blue, in two different situations: phenotypic Saphire like birds (very low concentration of psittacins) and high concentration of psittacins (which could match the SB debate). In the p...

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Hi, Let's consider two different possibilities concerning the existence of 2 blue loci: 1. Both loci are very closely located (higly linked), share the same origin and similar régulations, are involved in a similar task (Ex: synthesis of two different psittacins). In this case we can expect some kin...

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Hi Ringo, I am assuming SB parblue as Parblue2Blue2 or Parblue2Parblue2, but you are rigth: most of SB have been paired to Blue series birds and thus they are very probably also split to Blue1 , but not Parblue2Blue1, since we are talking about different genes. That's why I wrote: "The problem ...

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Hi, The above considerations allow to explain an apparent recessive behaviour of Parblues respective to Blue in ligth patched parblues as a ligth Saphire morphotype. It has been argued by Chris that SB do not produce parblue offspring when paired to a Blue bird and the possibility of a recessive par...

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Hi, IRN patched parblues (at least Indigo and Turquoise morphotypes) act through an activactory mechanism of psittacin production (partial psittacin producers) so that the homozygous parblues show more psittacin than their heterozygous (ParblueBlue) counterparts. Whenever the amount of psittacin pro...

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Hi everybody, It has been raised the question of a parblue behaving as recessive to Blue, as follows: BlueBlue .... Blue phenotype BlueParblue .... Blue phenotype ParblueParblue .... Parblue phenotype Who could try to explain this? Could this be the reason explaining the strange outcomes of Chris' S...

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Hi Paul, The punnet box is a statistic tool to study qualitative variables. We can use it to study Mendel laws, but we should keep in mind other factors which can disturb the results (presence of linkage, master genes, intergene dependency expression, masking, ...). When experiment results do not ma...

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Hi everybody, It is commonly accepted that the gene location (loci) in the chromossomes is roughly conserved among species, specially inside the same familly (parrots for us), so that results obtained in one species can be extrapolated to others. Budgie is the parrot species with a higher reproducti...

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To me the most impressive finding in Bob Irvine's female is that the melanin and psittacin deposition seems to be mostly independent, specially in the body (head colour is not easy to determine), that is I can not see a single feather showing a green colour, but just yellow or blue or white colours...

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1. The red ring of a Turquoise Emerald (or TurquoiseEmerald, selon hypothesis) shows a lower amount of red psittacin than a TurquoiseBlue bird. This statement isn't correct. The emeraldTurquoise of Len Mitchel are showing a normal pink neckring. Hi Madas, I did not say that the Turquoise Emerald di...

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All I can say from casual observation is that the intensity of yellow on my cleartails seems to increase as follows: from juvenile EmeraldBlue, through 1 year old EmeraldBlue, mature EmeraldTurquoise, juvenile TurquoiseBlue, mature TurquoiseBlue to Green. Hi Mike, Your casual observations in cleart...

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Hi, To me the most impressive finding in Bob Irvine's female is that the melanin and psittacin deposition seems to be mostly independent, specially in the body (head colour is not easy to determine), that is I can not see a single feather showing a green colour, but just yellow or blue or white colo...

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I have a rising 3 year old TurquoiseEmerald (or TurquoiseBlue Emerald) Cleartail and .... If I had to guess, I would have said that the TurquoiseEmerald Cleartail yellow is stronger than the BlueEmerald yellow but again I'm not at all sure Hi Mike; A TurquoiseEmerald (or TurquoiseBlue Emerald) is s...

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Hi Mike, We have some data pointing to an inhibitory action of Emerald on psittacin synthesis: 1. The red ring of a Turquoise Emerald (or TurquoiseEmerald, selon hypothesis) shows a lower amount of red psittacin than a TurquoiseBlue bird. If the actions of Emerald and Turquoise were additive (ex: li...

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Hi Mike; Some good lecture: http://www.bestofbreeds.net/al-nasser/article12.htm http://homepage.ntlworld.com/k_jones/clwyd/gray.htm Budgies's parblues (Yellowface I, Yelloface II and Goldenface) act all of them through an inhibitory mechanism, so that the homozygous bird show less psittacin than the...

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Hi Mike, A blue gene is a gene which takes part in the metabolic synthesis of psittacins, its transport to the feather follicle or its final deposition in the feather. When defectif, it does not allow the final presence of psittacins and the bird appears blue. If only partially defectif it produces ...

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Hi, I think that we are all saying the same things: we should not call SB a bird which is showing a transient parblue saddle which disappears at adulthood when psittacins spread away, producing the highest amounts on the wing patch and the head. This bird is probably a normal Turquoise. Babu says th...

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Hi Madas, That bird is, as you say, an Emerald Dom Pied. The apparent yellow saddle is due to the lack of melanin in the saddle area (Dom Pied effect) and not to an increase of psittacins in the saddle. The parblue component in this bird is Emerald, and it induces an homogeneous increase in psittaci...

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Hi everybody, This is the answer to Johan asking whether SB acts on melanin or on psittacin pigments: An optical saddle can appear due to: 1. Changes in melanin distribution in Dom Pied birds: 1.1. Lack of melanins in the saddle area (Dom Pied subtype).... it will produce a yellow saddle in a Green ...

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Hi,

I also think that there are many possible combinations of Dom Pied and different Parblues. My analysis is restricted to Chris' results as compared to Dom Pied Turquoise combos.

Regards

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Hi Mike, What I am meaning is that the true SB could not be a combo of Dom Pied and Turquoise, but a combo of an advanced Dom Pied and a Parblue belonging to a second Blue locus, with the specific characteristics that I have listed above. Babu's birds would be the true SB, and the australian birds w...

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Hi, From what has been reported and discussed about SB we could make some conclusions about the Parblue at work: About its phenotype: 1. It shows a rich, deep and brillant yellow colour with the highest concentration in the saddle area. 2. Psittacins regulated by sexual steroids are lacking, and thu...

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Hi everybody, http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag57/jrecio99/7%20Violet%20DF%20Harlequin%20saddleback_cock1_zps943ynybj.jpg The bird above is the same adult male you can see in the link below from the FB forum, given by Chris to Deon, and who has already bread those stuning chicks. This is a DF V...

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From Chris:

He will comment.

Regards

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Hi Paul, Most of us agree with you and think that IRN Dom Pied is the same mutation than the Budgie Spangle. It was discussed long ago and based on the phenotype of the homozygous birds (White or yellow black eye birds), the deeper yellow in Green series birds and the increased fluorescence under uv...

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Hi Chris, Probably SB is the result of combining Dom Pied with a very special Parblue. This Parblue would non belong to the same locus than Blue since you have never produced any Parblue after pairing SB to blue series birds. This parblue is probably also possible to detect in "split" bird...

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Hi Chris, If the male/female ratio of SB production is close to 50% we can say that there is not any sex linked mutation in the combo (not Opaline, not SL-Edged, ...). Another question: which are the outcomes of SB X SB ? I am clearly meaning SB X SB and not SB x Dom Pied in any combo. If SB was a c...

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Some more pics from Chris: http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag57/jrecio99/1-Violet.1.Saddleback_zpsk8jumcl2.jpg http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag57/jrecio99/7%20Violet%20DF%20Harlequin%20saddleback_cock1_zps943ynybj.jpg http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag57/jrecio99/19a%20Guess%20Which%20...

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Hi Mike,

This is the pic it was lacking.

Expecting for Chris Comments.

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I am posting these pics on Chris behalf to discuss about the underwing patch as a possible marker of Saddlebacks: http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag57/jrecio99/DSC_0011-001_zpsa854733c.jpg http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag57/jrecio99/DSC_0009-001_zps290696f2.jpg http://i1298.photobucket.com...

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Hi Madas, My Cinnamon SL-Ino was ligther in the nest and get some steps darker later. It is also violet, which could explain the darker colour, since Violet is able to enhance any residual melanin (do you remember Deon's Violino, in fact Violet Blue NSL-Ino? He showed far more melanin related colour...

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Hi Madas,

Are you sure it was about NSL Ino? I read it also somewhere in facebook but if I remember correctly it was about a kind of fallow (dun fallow???)

Regards

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Hi Recio I will be pairing Emerald Cleartails to each other next season with a little luck. Probably VioletGreen; EmeraldBlue; CleartailCleartail cock to a DarkGreen; EmeraldBlue; CleartailCleartail hen (I am assuming emerald is a par blue until I can prove otherwise). Are you suggesting that I wil...

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Hi, It would be great if somebody owing a DF SL-Edged IRN could send some wing fligth feathers to Inte. Otherwise, if he can not detect any Brown melanin in the SF SL-Edged bird, we will not be 100% sure that there is/isn't Brown melanin production in this mutation. When there is a mutation of a gen...

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Hi Allair, I do not think that those birds are indigo. Indigo chicks are blue and only after fledging they develop some green feathers. Those birds are something different. As you say they seem to be highly iridescent and the more iridescent part is the extreme tip of the wing bar feathers, where we...

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Positif answer

. I will send the flightfeathers tomorrow.

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This is a paste and copy of some mailing with Inte: > Hi Inte, > > I have a 2 years old Blue SL-Edged male IRN. Would you be interested in studying its type of melanin? I have some reasons to think that it could be brown eumelanin (like for cinnamon) instead of black eumelanin. I am not sking you fo...

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