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trabots

Recio, you are disrupting, you are not nearly as smart as you think you are, you are a complete fool in my opinion. Why not keep your yap shut until you have birds in the hand. I am deleting all correspondence I ever had with your sorry self.

And to pre-empt, this is what I sent Recio.

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Johan you can stick those feathers where the sun don’t shine. Your father would be ashamed of you.

That is the total email sent to Johan. All the education in the world does not make one a true scientist. Like many pseudo scientists you have exaggerated your data.

trabots

While there are pseudo scientist types on this or any other forum who don't appreciate plain simple logic to anything put forward, who agree on the plan required to prove something, then when the results don't fit their fixed model, they hit you with the what ifs, the idiotic hypotheticals and are p...

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Johan, do me a big favour and just answer me in the other thread.

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I don't have a Blue series Emerald sorry.

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How can you say that Ben when you haven't explored the alternate hypothesis that Opaline and Harlequin are just variants of the same mutation? Recio, Johan??

I forgot something

trabots

Your birds seem to be BlueBlue SF Emeralds and ParblueBlue SF Emeralds. Recio, same thing, how can a bird with psitticins be Blue? You are evading the obvious as I think you are smart enough not to overlook the obvious. I wonder however. I'll try again and this is the last time I will enter into an...

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When you breed one Opaline hen then you have confirmation of the pied being Opaline. Accept the fact that Harlequins have a head same as Opaline How can you say that Ben when you haven't explored the alternate hypothesis that Opaline and Harlequin are just variants of the same mutation? Recio, Joha...

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I think that Chris bird is a DF Emerald in blue series

Recio, lets now progress. How is Chris' df Emerald a Blue series when it clearly has psitticins? Just answer this please then to the next step.

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Yes Stefan, I accept I am wrong, I have just started CHCT breeding and only had TurquoiseBlue CHCT to relate, none of them have patches. My argument still stands however that you can't make conclusions about what a Parblue is or isn't by using only CHCT versions for reference.

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I am fed up with you both Johan and Recio for time and again ignoring basic genetics of what a bird can and can't be with regard to the heterozygous Emerald. The df Emerald is Green series (or Blue according to you) needs no discussion at this stage. The other far more common heterozygous Emerald th...

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These two chicks show df Indigo and IndigoBlue in the nest.

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Great pics Mike, it would seem I am wrong about at least those CHCT with Violet. Your TurquoiseBlue CHCT has a much more blended in affect on his back. Your young EmeraldTurquoise CHCT shows an even distribution.

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Johan you are saying 'what if' Aaron's split Emerald cock is in fact a Green Emerald. Surely John Friske who bred the bird from an EmeraldBlue would have noticed a different phenotype in the Green bird, enough that would justify the bird being a SF Emerald? This is what I am getting at, so much BS b...

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Willy, where does the underlined fit in? On the basis that all alleles of the same locus found in any parrot so far are always of the same inheritance mode Johan, Recio is saying Emerald is dominant but at the Blue locus also. There so far as I am aware only sex-linked and recessive allelic mutatio...

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Your female is thus Wild Green/Turquoise SF Emerald, with the Emerald allele linked to the wild allele of the Blue locus. Recio, this is your conclusion so let's pair this bird with a Blue as Mike did. SF Emerald /Turquoise x Blue = 25% Green /Blue 25% TurquoiseBlue 25% SF Emerald /Blue 25% SF Emer...

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Thanks for the images Mike. Recio you have based your theory on the appearance of Mike's EmeraldTurquoise CHCT without even mentioning CHCT. You fail to appreciate the changes CHCT does to a TurquoiseBlue. The CHCT partially eliminates the patches, it is an more even coloured bird on the back than w...

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I am now by no means confident that I could detect a low level of pastel yet in either the Violet EmeraldBlue or the Violet Cobalt Emerald Cleartails. What do you mean by "pastel" Mike? If you mean the patches on a TurquoiseBlue you won't see them on a CHCT. Please show us an image of the...

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What I see is a mainly Green bird without any patch.

Recio, what bird are you looking at? If it is the bird Mike posted on 21 November, the one that is "mainly green" then that is not the mother of Mike's CHCT chicks. That bird is clearly not a CHCT. Both of the parents were CHCT.

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Mike, what is the bird in the image you posted on 21 November? Have you ever posted an image of your TurquoiseEmerald CHCT hen?

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Recio, the EmeraldBlue is as you have seen, total body fluorescent. The TurquoiseBlue and IndigoBlue fluoresce only on the patched psitticins. The IndigoBlue fluoresces the least.

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My tail feather collection proved invaluable when identifying my young structural mutants while taking blood for sexing. I always pull the breeders' primary tail feathers after their young wean when I catch them up to put into the big summer flight. That is why the tips are sometimes missing, they a...

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Mike, I don't quit so easily. If you could explain where the below fails scientific method we might all learn something. By the way I am a Mechanical Engineer, Bsc University of Calgary 1978. Far more than opposing view points is my annoyance at those who have a lot to say but when pressed to qualif...

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Aaron's single chick simply does not constitute application of good scientific method. We start by assuming that the green parent has an emerald gene at the blue locus along with a wildtype gene at the other site, a fact which I take as proven Willy. However, the fact that a single chick is produce...

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EmeraldBlue, TurquoiseBlue, IndigoBlue

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What we have here on this thread is a detailed argument hell bent on uncovering the true nature of this beast Yes, but at some point when the answer has been confirmed by the breedings which we all discussed a year ago, the argument has to logically stop. Nobody expressed concern with those breedin...

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It is my view that it is possible, albeit highly unlikely, that a gene could appear at an as yet unidentified locus to create emerald yellow by either pigment or structural means. It is not unheard of for new mutations, that haven't been identified in other species, to show themselves in ringnecks....

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Come on Lee, you can't just say you bred something weird without telling us what the parents were and provide an image of the bird.

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Recio said Willy's logics (very correct) is that if BlueBlue is present it is not possible to see any psittacin. Since this bird show psittacins it would mean that it is a parblue. This logic is sound whenever we are dealing with a single Blue locus, Recio unless there is another Blue locus you agre...

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Cheers Mike, if there is ANY yellow on the bird it CANNOT be a Blue bird.

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Mike, you had me worried but here they are, all Emeralds not CHCT or anything else and from different clutches. If you are talking about real yellow spots then that is a different issue. I am confirming that you can tell a Violet EmeraldBlue or any other Blue coloured bird if it is Emerald by lookin...

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I have a Green/Blue/Ino and a Grey Green hen, can someone tell me the out come. Green/Blue/Ino x Grey Green = cocks 50% Green poss split Blue and poss split Ino 50% Grey Green poss split Blue and poss split Ino hens 25% Green poss split Blue 25% Grey Green poss split Blue 50% Lutino poss Grey Green...

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No doubt the wild birds were grey Could you follow their logics to describe an inheritance pattern to blue, cobalt, mauves and albinos birds? So there are Dark, Ino and other genes as well but they survive barely and will eventually die out because the non-Grey phenotypes aren’t as well camouflaged...

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Hopefully you'll agree that there is some logic to the green series emerald breeding program on the premise that emerald is a parblue. Johan, long before you have bred the Green /Emeralds for your breeding program I will have bred guaranteed df Emeralds simply by pairing EmeraldBlues. I have 100% c...

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Mike and Ringo hi. I have bred some violet blue that I assume to be emerald due to its emerald like flourescense ... yet appear completely blue. Is it possible that emerald in blue series are completely (visually) devoid of Psittacin ... Willy your input is what I am particularly interested in... L...

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We aren't gurus. The only gurus I have come across are Terry and Deon. We are amateurs with some pretending to be scientists.

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I have many other interests in my life than to read all about all the possible science which affects other creatures. This is an IRN forum and this thread is being used to discuss a second Blue alllele in budgerigars. Not interested. Why the commentary about yellow under the wing of a Violet Emerald...

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Johan, why make it so hard to understand? When I talk structure I talk about what makes a parrot feather Blue, full stop. And when I talk about feather fluorescence I talk about what we know from parrots, some psitticins fluoresce not blue colours. I am sure it is all very interesting stuff but why ...

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Bravo Johan. Apology accepted. There is no place for sarcasm on this forum and I am allergic to it. Ask Recio. I was guilty of it sometimes on Terry's forum but I was truly exasperated at the posts by the Mad Cow and the Caveman and yet silence from Terry who could have stifled it, not with repriman...

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the great value of Aaron's chick lies in the fact that we know for certain that its green parent is split for emerald Mike if you agree with your own statement you must agree that Emerald is not dominant or the parent would not be Green. A bird cannot be split for a dominant mutation. I already poi...

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Mike, further to this, the UV reflectance of the bird shows that it is a psitticin based mutation. Structure does not fluoresce.

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It is obvious that the image is too dark from the colour of the Deep Blue chicks. This looks more realistic.

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Mike, Molossus, the Grey mutation destroys all structural colour in a feather. It is odd that it still called a structural mutation but that is because it involves structure. That is why there are no blue colours in a Grey or Grey Green. If Emerald was structural logically Grey would destroy that st...

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I have not seen a mature DF indigo cock. Does the same phenotypic difference still hold, i.e. no psittacin in the neck ring (i.e. only black and white)? My mature df Indigo cock was killed by a hawk, major set back. It had a small amount of colour in the neck ring. Why should it not? The hen is all...

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Now go ahead and tell me that bird has a gorget in the blue end of the spectrum. Or better yet, explain to the forum that this post is irrelevant because it isn't a ringneck. IMO this is a reflective type feather structure rather than the refractive type found in parrots. Any iridescence in parrots...

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He has 3 Deep Greens /CH Fallow now.

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As I said I have quit this thread.

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Me too and i am not convinced it is a deep. I am sick of this doubting. Read my lips, the bird was bred from a Deep. Ron is not a stunned mullet. I will tell him that he will not be believed until he puts it with a Dark Green also, he will probably say "tell them get mated". You wonder wh...

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Also some split opaline males show a very slightly lighter body and some tail dilution, as another example. If a bird always shows even just a hint of aberrant colour in EVERY Greenmutant then the mutation is dominant. If as you say in Opaline where only sometimes is there 'leakage' in the heterozy...

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Or better yet, explain to the forum that this post is irrelevant because it isn't a ringneck. Now go ahead and tell me that bird has a gorget in the blue end of the spectrum. Or better yet, explain to the forum that this post is irrelevant because it isn't a ringneck. No Johan, let's get real and s...

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