IndianRingNeck.com

Jay

[If you have invested $2000 on a visual Cleartail and $800 on a visual Buttercup. Would you risk producing Green birds from this pairing and lose a potential $4000 Cleartail clutch or $2000 Buttercup clutch? I won't. Afterall, IRN color breeding among rarer mutations is also an economic endeavor. O...

Jay

Hi, I understand the first lady for your NSLino male, but I do not understand why to choose miss buttercup? What are your neurons cooking about NSLino and buttercup? If Cleartail turns out to be allelic to NSLIno, and Bronze_Fallow is a proven allele of NSLIno, then Cleartail turns out to be a type...

Jay

Hi Jay; I agree with you that for a particular bird it is not possible to say if he is SF or DF violet. But the question is not there but in the concept of probabilities : Results from breeders show that the probability of having a DF violet is higher in deep violet IRN, and that the probability of...

Jay

I have a problem with this theory: I have never hear of getting bronze fallows from cleartail breeding. May be it is just because they have appeared and evolved as separate mutations (it was not the case for NSLino and cleartail), Recio, I believe all IRN mutations evolved on their own and not simu...

Jay

OK Jay :D . Now seriously: when a gene, as violet, is differently expressed by different birds, so that sometimes you can make the difference between DF and SF birds, but not always, it is called variable expressivity . It means that the amount of change in feather structure produced by just one al...

Jay

To clear something up for me the NSLino birds you are talking about are these all albino or lutino looking birds? I am curious as i have a big whitehead and white tail breeder coming here to see some of my birds and im going to ask if he ever gets any albino or lutino looking young from his birds.B...

Jay

Hi Jay,Madas and Recio. To get off topic a little bit i have read i think in the 2nd bastiaans book that pied is or can be made up from mating a bronze fallow and something else.Looking for what i read about this. Have any of you heard of this?? Here in Australia there is a few dominant pied breede...

Jay

Hi, I understand the first lady for your NSLino male, but I do not understand why to choose miss buttercup? What are your neurons cooking about NSLino and buttercup? Is it not obvious? If cleartail could be an allele of NSLino then perhaps clearhead Fallow too. Hi Madas Not, this is not obvious sin...

Jay

@Jay: Which eye color does your lutino offspring have? From afar, the NSLInos that I produce look the same as SLInos. But if you look closely at their feathers, there seem to be less residual melanin... manifested by less grey stains on Blue series birds and less or absence of greenish sheen on NSL...

Jay

Hi, I understand the first lady for your NSLino male, but I do not understand why to choose miss buttercup? What are your neurons cooking about NSLino and buttercup? If Cleartail turns out to be allelic to NSLIno, and Bronze_Fallow is a proven allele of NSLIno, then Cleartail turns out to be a type...

Jay

Wow this thread really took off on me. Lucky I have the entire weekend to read through all the replies

Jay

I have been told a 3yr or older hen will raise young by herself where as a 2yr old will rely on the cock to feed her to. I think it has nothing to do with age but rather experience. Presumably a 2 year old hen has never had the experience of feeding her babies so she is relying purely on instinct. ...

Jay

I've read up on this awhile back and I recall one avian veterinarian wrote in an article that in parrots, male sperm has a lifespan of only up to 1 week. Another article I read from college students making experiments confirmed this. I'll try to dig up these articles. Not sure how long IRNs sperm ce...

Jay

So what does this all mean? I say the darkness (or lightness) of a Violet bird also depends on the darkness/lightness of the Blue alleles that it inherits from its parents. Afterall, a visual Violet bird is a combination of Blue and Violet Factor. And we all know for a fact that not all Blue birds ...

Jay

OK Jay :D . Now seriously: when a gene, as violet, is differently expressed by different birds, so that sometimes you can make the difference between DF and SF birds, but not always, it is called variable expressivity . It means that the amount of change in feather structure produced by just one al...

Jay

This can also apply to the example of violet Madas wrote about. Hmm... not sure about Violet being incomplete dominant. I've bred dozens of Violets and DF and SF Violets sometimes can't be determined visually. Several American Violet breeders who have bred hundreds of Violets over the years say the...

Jay

So lets's say almost-quasy-incomplete dominant. In fact it just mean that there is a whole array of different % expression depending on what genes we speak about. Either you're Incomplete Dominant or not. No quasi because this will only add more confusion. If there are offsprings that cannot be det...

Jay

Incomplete-Dominant is a sub-classification of a Dominant mutation where there is a phenotypical difference between a Single Factor bird and a Double Factor bird such as the case of the Dark Factor (ie. Cobalt and Mauve). This can also apply to the example of violet Madas wrote about. Hmm... not su...

Jay

Hi Madas, I am lost about the symbols you use. A priori the symbols to be use should be: NSLino ..... a Bronze fallow ...... a (bz) Cleartail ...... ct (if consider as an independent mutation) Cleartail ..... a (ct) (if considered as an allele of the locus coding for NSLino, just like bronze fallow...

Jay

@Recio: Do you think that pallid (lacewing) is really co-dominant? Co-Dominance means there is an intermediate phenotype when two color genes are expressed. This relationship is between two mutant genes. So yes, Pallid and Ino are co-dominant to each other thus producing the intermediate phenotype ...

Jay

Curiously in Bastiaan page it is not said that bronze fallow is an allele of cleartail and all the combinations with other mutations have been deleted (?) The allelic relationship of Cleartail and Bronze Fallow (and NSLIno) is just a theory that I suspected (perhaps a few other breeders as well) af...

Jay

The question is simple: has anybody paired a bronze fallow (homozygous) to a clairtail (homozygous). I think the reasons no one (on record) has paired Cleartail with Bronze Fallow or NSLIno are: 1. These mutations are rare. 2. Cleartail is still the most expensive and most sought after mutation (at...

Jay

@Jay: Which eye color does your lutino offspring have? From afar, the NSLInos that I produce look the same as SLInos. But if you look closely at their feathers, there seem to be less residual melanin... manifested by less grey stains on Blue series birds and less or absence of greenish sheen on NSL...

Jay

Bronze Fallow and NSLIno are PROVEN heteroalleles and yet their homozygous phenotypes also differ considerably. Hi Jay, could you further develop this point? Recio, In Indian Ringnecks, Bronze Fallow is an allele of the NSLIno locus. See this link http://www.gencalc.com/gen/eng_genc.php?sp=0PsitIR ...

Jay

@Jay: what was your thought? Both cleartail and NSLino are recessive?!? And by chance the two gens was combined in the bird from Calcutta. But if both are recessive and not alleles of the same locus then the today cleartail offspring results are not fitting. Normally today we have the same portion ...

Jay

and the NSLino factor is more visible because it is homozygot (like the pallidIno; because pallidINo is the mix between lutino and pallid birds). Here I am lost: to me homozygot means that the same allele is present in the same locus of each cromosome. So an homozygous NSLino should genetically be ...

Jay

@Jay: Please can you ask the breeder with the lutino or albino offspring from cleartails how the parents look and from which pairing the parents was breed. Madas, I am the breeder as I have produced NSL Lutinos and NSL Albinos from my Cleartail lines. One of the visual male father has a dark neckri...

Jay

Hi everybody, Thanks a lot for this great course of genetics. So we have at least 3 multiallele loci: 1. SL lutino/pallid 2. Blue/turquoise/aqua 3. Cleartail/NSL lutino I would like to emphasize that Cleartail and NSLIno as heteroalleles is NOT yet proven but is suspected. However, all breeding exp...

Jay

thx Jay. This information is completly new to me (and i think to most other breeders of the cleartail mutation). So to check this i have to pair a rec lutino (rec ino) to a cleartail green. And i should get this: 100% Rec. Lutino / Cleartail (only if cleartail isn't co-dominant to NSLino) Very inte...

Jay

Hi Madas, Why do you say that breeding Cleartail to Cleartail produces small, weak or DIS (dead in shell) offsprings? Because it's my experience with breeders in europe. The Cleartail mutation has been bred in captivity for twenty years now and have been outcrossed considerably. So if you are refer...

Jay

Douglas fir.

Jay

But you should know that this pairing (cleartail x cleartail) isn't the best pairing. your offspring will be small and weak, or will die in the egg. So a better pairing will be split cleartail x cleartail. Hi Madas, Why do you say that breeding Cleartail to Cleartail produces small, weak or DIS (de...

Jay

Madas ~ thanks, I will try to contact the breeder and ask the make-up of the parents. :P Hi Leo, The male is a Blue/Cleartail. He came from a Blue/Cleartail father and a Blue Cleartail mother. The hen is a Recessive Albino possibly masking Violet Cleartail but guaranteed to be at least split to Cle...

Jay

Last year somebody I found in the net gave me an IRN female and a lutino male, both 8 years old, that had never reproduced before, as he told me. I did not know if it was a girl or a boy problem, so I paired them to different partners. I thought she was a grey-green and I coupled her to a blue cin ...

Jay

If the cinnamon locus alters MATP distribution, it means that it alters the distribution of a protein which is not synthesized if SLI is present, so I have always with the same question. TRP1 locus (Cinnamon mutation) does not alter the reactant but rather the catalysts that promotes oxidation of m...

Jay

so if I've read things right the hen is turquoise with ino making her creamino? And the below calculation means all progeny from the pair would be visually turquoise? 1.0 blue x 0.1 turquoise(parblue) ino % from all 1.0 100.0% 1.0 turquoise(parblue)Blue /ino % from all 0.1 100.0% 0.1 turquoise(parb...

Jay

Since the opaline locus is in the sexual cromosomes also, it can also present the same type of interactions that the cin related to the pallid/ino gene/locus. And there must also be interactions between the cin and the opaline genes. When thinking about all the possible combinations between the thr...

Jay

I have seen the same comment in Mutavi genetics about SLI being unable to mask brown melanin, but I do not understand why. Sex-Linked Ino codes for MATP which is a transport mechanism for tyrosinase needed for melanin synthesis. The cinnamon mutation codes for TRP1 which is need for the final oxida...

Jay

Humidity at ~50%. Imran is right on the money at 99 degF incubating temp. Most of the time you'll get quicker answers to your questions by utilizing the board's search engine. Most new questions asked had already been discussed and answered in the past. Add to those threads if specific questions had...

Jay

If the genetics of the father is correct, then the baby who is lighter than the mother is a Cinnamon-Ino crossover offspring, also known as the True Lacewings. There is a 0.75% chance of this offspring being produced. I've discussed the phenomenon of crossovers many times in the past so do a search ...

Jay

In my experience, male pets has a lot better chance to breed compared to hens.

When his hormones engage this coming breeding season, perhaps his behavior will change.

Jay

Majority of the new questions being asked had already been discussed in the past. I suggest you use the site's search engine and review past topics. Lots of juicy tidbits from current knowledgeable breeders and those who have come and gone. Feel free to add your question to those threads if your spe...

Jay

I bought a pair of breeding irn's from a guy in arizona, danny pineda. Everyone i have talked to so far says he is very honest and knows exactly what he is talking about. The pair i bought from him are both lutino's split to blue, according to him. He said they would throw lutino's and white's. So ...

Jay

when you say "normal for them to beg for more food" does that mean the "yip yip " sound? also, according to the time schedule in the other thread it says 42 - weaned you estimated about 5 weeks so that equals 40 or so days... do i still keep them on the formula? i know they aren...

Jay

BTW, is the Slaty Mutation the same as the Misty and/or Khaki. Due to my ignorance with the german language, I could not decipher if the Khaki/Misty/Slaty were all the same genotype. Genecal.com indicates that Khaki & Misty were the same. Clarification would be appreciated. Khaki and Misty are ...

Jay

Thank you Their crop is kept full at the best of my abilities. I still dont know how to estimate their age so i am attaching a picture perhaps someone can shed some light. also even when they're done eating they still make the Yap Yap sound. What does that mean and is it ok to ignore it? http://img...

Jay

Jay: Thank for the added clarification. I assume that pairing a male Greygreen CHCT X Green Buttercup is not recommended. This would result in Greygreen & Green IRN split for the CHCT & Buttercup genotype. I original thought that the resultant would be GreyGreen Clearhead/Cleartail & Gr...

Jay

Hi Jay, i have wrote a pm to you some time ago about the same topic. Do you have some more info or pictures of the slaty muation? Thx. I sold all my Slaty breeding stock a couple of years back, so no more pictures. I'm not really impressed with the appearance of this mutation so I chose to concentr...

Jay

Thank for the clarifications. The internet websites were quite informative and Jay simply breakdown make it so much less complicated. I really appreciate your assistances. You have save me a bit of time from making some IRN pairing mistakes. BTW, I have seen a few advertisement that states Cleartai...

Jay

is it poosiable to breed bird that are both tame. ive read that this is not a good idea. why would it be a bad idea to breed two tame birds. i would think that once theyve established some tip of bond that there insticnts would kick in? Tame birds can breed. But they tend to be not as prolific as p...

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